Jump to content

nexus

Member
  • Content count

    26
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Community Reputation

0 Neutral

About nexus

  • Rank
    Member
  1. nexus

    Will a Vepr 12 Trigger fit a Sagia 12?

    Yes, I would be happy to post pictures but sorry that I can't credit all the photos. As you said, the Vepr selector has two parts--one on each side of the receiver. I'll just mention that from day one I didn't like the Vepr selector. It wasn't obvious how it was supposed to be used and it was downright painful trying to operate it properly before it was broken in. I just dabbed it with polishing compound and clicked it back and forth while watching TV one evening. After breaking it in, it only took one range trip to discover and immediately benefit from the ergos. No, pun intended but it just "clicked" and became effortless. I did not have to consciously train myself to use it. In this thread, most of my comments addressed the half of the selector system that is visible on the right side of the receiver in this picture below. This is the part that is interchangeable with other AKs, and this is the part that is used for switching the weapon from safe to fire. This part is not operated by your thumb, so it is not a thumb toggle, and it is not operated with your index finger. It is fast. This (below) is the other part of the Vepr safety. It is the thumb toggle used for switching the weapon from fire to safe. It is not interchangeable with any other AK unless you have no scope rail and carefully mill a notched hole in your receiver. I mentioned this in my initial description, and even though it looks like a rare and awesome feature, I could take it or leave it. It does make it possible to put the gun on safe without releasing your grip, which is a good thing, but it doesn't make or break anything for me. Paired with the other part (above), it allows you to ready and fire without disturbing any digits, and cease and put on safe while only disturbing your thumb, otherwise maintaining full control of the pistol grip. Just for contrast, an AR requires your thumb to be disturbed for both operations, the Vepr system only burdens your thumb when rendering the weapon safe. It could be easily argued that the Vepr safety system is ergonomically superior to the AR safety, let alone aftermarket AK stuff, but let's pretend I didn't just open that can of worms (or at least don't bite my head off about it until you have spent an afternoon at the range with a slicked up Vepr selector). Below is Papazorro's closeup of both parts. As you can see, he neutered the thumb toggle part of the selector system on one of his shotguns because I guess he is in agreement that it isn't the important half of the system. Below is an image that a member posted on this forum demonstrating how the selector touches your hand when it is not seated in the fire position. Without removing his finger from the trigger, this shooter could just clench his grip on the pistol grip and flex his finger into the proper position for his trigger pull and this will cause his hand to come up enough on the grip that the selector moves from safe to fire. This high clench on the grip is what you need to do to support the shotgun on firing regardless of the safety, and this is why it is efficient. There is no motion or instant dedicated to switching the selector, it is just part of gripping the gun and squeezing the trigger. Unless you are gripping it too far back, with your finger out of the trigger guard, then it comes off as effortlessly as a passive safety mechanism. It is hard to shoulder the weapon and reach into the trigger guard without toggling the selector, and it would be totally impossible to shoulder the weapon without feeling and implicitly knowing the status of the safety. Below we see how the selector is parallel to the bottom of the receiver and totally out of the shooter's way when the safety is off. Below is the ordinary index finger selector tab available from Krebs, et al. If this shooter is readying the weapon to fire, then his finger must start up and away from the trigger either kept there perpetually above the tab, or it has to move there, pull the tab, and then land back on the trigger to fire. With the Vepr safety, you could do all this with your finger on the trigger and your sights on the bad guy. This index finger tab is better than an ordinary AK safety because even though it still requires the dedicated operation of the safety, it allows your thumb to maintain its grip. In contrast, an AR also allows your thumb to retain its grip, but it is superior to the AK index finger tab because in an AR the thumb is dedicated to the safety and the index finger is dedicated to the trigger, whereas with the AK selector mod, the index finger tab burdens that digit with both operations in succession. Below you see the Krebs thumb toggle. This is the one that might superficially resemble the Vepr selector, but has a totally different manual of arms. Notice that the tab is positioned almost 90 degrees away from the Vepr tab. The tab is actuated by the thumb which requires breaking grip. It is more efficient than an unmodified selector, but less efficient than the index finger tab. Most people that own AKs don't bother with either of these upgrades, but this one is probably the least useful of the two. Lastly, we have my super scientific diagram documenting the operating contact points of these various mods (just with regards to readying the weapon to fire, not rendering safe). You see that the Krebs mods burden digits, but the Vepr part is operated with the side of your palm. The palm is inherently stronger than the fingers, and this fact also contributes to the inherent ergonomic/mechanical efficiency of the Vepr selector.
  2. nexus

    Will a Vepr 12 Trigger fit a Sagia 12?

    I'm not trying to change your opinion, but I am pointing out that for the reasons described above, the Vepr selector is a measurably more efficient design, and it is not the functional equivalent of any of the products you mentioned. Even if you prefer other selectors, they aren't options for someone that wants to put the Vepr selector, or even Vepr style selector, on another gun, because they aren't Vepr style parts, period. The upward push that requires no fingers or thumbs and could even be operated while pulling the trigger might just be unintuitive because you are used to reaching away from the trigger and doing something else for an instant rather than going straight there. I should have also mentioned that like any AK safety, it's only slick if it's broken in. Most people in these forums have used the index finger tabs, but not as many have used both, and when you give them names based on how you would use them if you were using your off-hand, etc, or repeatedly claim that they are the equivalent of something that has a totally different manual of arms, then you can see where it's worth clarifying the facts for readers that haven't handled the Vepr part at all.
  3. nexus

    Will a Vepr 12 Trigger fit a Sagia 12?

    And that's my point, most people don't seem to understand how the modified right side selector works. This is manifesting in your use of the term "thumb toggle" and drawing equivalence with Krebs products that are superficially similar but ergonomically and mechanically couldn't be more different. The modified Vepr safety on the right side of the receiver isn't a thumb toggle, but it is interchangeable with other AK selectors, and for the reasons I explained above, it is superior to just about everything on the market in the US and superior to the one finger safety mod in your sig. Think of it as a zero finger safety mod.
  4. nexus

    Will a Vepr 12 Trigger fit a Sagia 12?

    I am familiar with the Krebs products. I have yet to see a homemade selector mod or aftermarket selector that follows the Vepr design, but it is ergonomically and mechanically superior, and it would be commonly duplicated if more people in English language forums understood the difference. 'You talk as though' it is a thumb toggle, but it is not.
  5. nexus

    New Vepr 12 cheek piece lock?

    It doesn't lock in the up position, probably because if it did, it could snap off were the shotgun dropped. Notice the notches and pin as you adjust the positioning. All the positioning notches are very shallow except the down position notch. You could easily mod it to lock in the up position by extending the notch to match the depth of the one for the down position. It would only take a minute, but to make it look clean you'd want to do it with an endmill in a drill press or mill.
  6. nexus

    Will a Vepr 12 Trigger fit a Sagia 12?

    The Vepr selector and the Krebs selector both involve a steel tab on the selector, but the selector designs are otherwise totally different, and in my opinion, the Vepr tab is far superior to the Krebs tab because it can be operated without removing your trigger finger from the trigger guard. You take the gun off safe by pulling down with the Krebs part with your trigger finger, but the Vepr part involves pushing up with the knuckle at the base of your trigger finger. You also can't put your finger in the trigger guard without feeling that the safety is on, because it touches the side of your finger, which is valuable feedback when shouldering a weapon under stress. When the safety is off, you can't feel the selector. To take the Krebs off safe and fire, you have to move your finger away from the trigger and then to the trigger. With the Molot part, you just move your finger directly to the trigger while the base of your finger is bumping the selector. It involves half as much movement and it allows your finger tip to be dedicated to the trigger, instead of working the trigger and selector. The left side of the selector is only for putting the weapon on safe with your thumb. You can't swap the left side of the Vepr selector onto another AK without modding the receiver, but the right half of it could be swapped. This probably would not be safe unless you used a Vepr FCG. I swapped the right side selector onto an SGL-31 with Arsenal USA FCG just to test, and it fits, but it wouldn't be safe because the top cover is the only thing preventing the trigger bars from pushing the selector off safe due to the geometry. Even with a Vepr FCG, I can't guarantee that it would be safe to use the Vepr selector in a Saiga, but somebody ought to test it (safely, without live ammo). Altogether, GunFun is probably right to discourage you, even though the idea shows some promise.
  7. I have read a couple times over the years that Russian designed polymer mags are always bonded together. An ordinary polymer 74 mag (or AK-103 mag, for that matter) starts out as two halves which are bonded along the seam that you can plainly see on the back and front of the mag. It sounds like a design flaw, but I think, in practice, the glue or polymer weld, or whatever it is, is probably just as strong or stronger than any other horizon in the polymer. This is just something I have read from lurking in forums like this, it may or may not be correct. I am not sure if a factory Vepr 8 round mag is molded in one piece or two, but it does have the same ground down seam that a 74 mag has. The gluing two halves technique might be something that was adopted to allow for the installation of the steel reinforcements, which wouldn't be necessary in a Vepr mag, but that doesn't say one way or another if they would use the same manufacturing process. Anyway, I have two of these 10 round Vepr mags. Just looking at them, I think that they bond the polymer, grind down some ugly seams on the front and back, and then dip the mag in something like plastidip to clean up the finished product, but that's pure speculation on my part.
  8. nexus

    battery recommendation for PK-A calling Tex Zen

    For the PK-AS, you would use two of them stacked, but I don't really know about the PK-A.
  9. Assuming you still have it, I'll take: 21) .223 Gas Tube (like new)- $10 Thanks.
  10. 3/8 in. is a smaller hole than spec for these brakes. I think the closest you could get without metric bits would be 13/32 in., which would still be slightly over-sized, and a metric 10 mm bit should be perfect. The diameter of that hole does affect the functioning of the brake, but to what extent, I have no idea. I certainly notice that my AK-103s have noticeably less recoil than my AKMs, and I have always attributed that to the 74 brake, but that isn't necessarily the case, since several other factors influence felt recoil. It would be easy to test, though. For those of you encountering misfires, it could just as much be a matter of a damaged/eroded/short firing pin causing light strikes, or dirty firing pin channel, as it could be the fault of the primers in your ammo. Golden Tiger (Vympel) is one of the only commercial brands that has earned a reputation for "bad primers." The Uly 8M3 stuff has a great reputation, but Russian commercial ammo has changed a lot in the last couple years, and is no longer sealed, and according to xenogy, the Uly HP currently imported does not have the exact same 8M3 bullet as it did just a few years ago and I am still waiting to hear further reports on any changes in terminal ballistics. Yugo M67 is the one readily-available ace in the hole for this caliber, and it is desirable for many of the same reasons as 7N6 is in 5.45. As for the 74 to 103 comparison, I think, in theory, it's a pretty balanced trade-off, but due to the accuracy of 7N6 out of standard 74 barrels, the lacquer and sealant, sealed tins, ballistic performance, and reliability of primers, I am leaning toward 74s at the moment. For the OP, I think 74s are, on average, more accurate, but not by much, and the differences within rifles of a caliber are probably a lot greater than the average difference between those 2 calibers, assuming proper ammo and barrels. 5.45 definitely wins out at longer range.
  11. Very cool. I like how it has the early style scope rail.
  12. nexus

    Saiga bullet guide

    Nah, the bullet hits the guide which redirects it slightly upwards toward the chamber, as opposed to directly into the breech face below the chamber. It doesn't effect the position of the magazine. I have never had to file on the mag catch of any AK that I own, although I will say that every now and then I run into an out of spec mag that requires a hard pull in order to latch, or on a couple occasions (I own well over 100) won't latch at all. I wouldn't modify the catch so that it will fit mags that are too large (out of spec) because this is going to mean that mags at the normal or small end of the spectrum will have vertical wobble (the bad kind).
  13. All AK's have a rivet there to attach the trigger guard. The SGL-21 has the large flat topped rivet that, as mentioned, "prevents trigger slap." I believe this only applies to particular FCGs, because I have newer pattern Arsenal FCGs in a variety of guns, and with or without this rivet, none of them get trigger slap, and G2s don't have trigger slap regardless of that rivet. I would like to know when this rivet was first implemented. '80's AK74? I don't think I saw it mentioned on Tantal's site.
  14. nexus

    Options for Non-Threaded Barrels

    It's surprisingly easy to swap an FSB, but you will want to read a tutorial and have the right (few) tools. I would recommend against permanently attaching a brake, because in my opinion, it's annoying when it comes to cleaning.
×