saul

Thanks for the input guys. I have sold the rifle only to someone planning a conversion. They offered a few bucks more than I paid for just the rifle so that was an easy deal. I quess I will sell the rest individually now. The lowest I have seen on ebay or gunbroker for 10 rd mags is about $14.95, I got a good deal on them so I could probably go a little lower than that. Anybody have opinions on fair pricing for everything minus the rifle sold individually?

I bought this new last December with one 10 round magazine. Since then I have purchased: 4 more 10 round magazines. Allan rifle case with magazine pockets. Tapco cleaning kit for AK-47 type rifles. Silicone gun sock and trigger lock. I also have in the neighborhood of 200 rounds of Wolf ammo in this caliber. I now need to sell. I want to get some opinions from the Saiga experts. What would be a fair price for this entire package?

I see the notation V47. That is the number for the Vulcan Armament ak clones. Check out www.vulcan armament.com. Vulcan Armament was formerly known as Hesse Arms. If you search in this or any ak forum about this particular ak conversion company you will probably find they have a very poor quality reputation. This gunbroker seller is from Minnesota the original home of Hesse Arms which also makes me suspect the source of these conversions.

RDSWriter, Do you have links to your source for this info. That is the first time I have heard that the ATF had declared LCFD(Large Capacity Feeding Device)=LCMM(Large Capacity Military Magazine). The factory saiga 30 round mag would definately be illegal in a foreign made rifle then.

The shape of the top of the mag is different as well. For an ak mag. You need to add a feedramp to a saiga for normal ak mags to work. You should find the directions for this among the information on the following site. http://www.cross-conn.com/Saiga_Conversion/ Once you have added the feedramp and modified the mag catch area then the rifle will physically work with ak mags but it is not legal. The large capacity military mag on a foreign made semi-auto rifle is not allowed. See the link below for primary resources on the laws that govern this. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?

Email tantal and ask what his current price on 10 rd mags is. He is usually the most competative. He used to have a quantity deal a few months back. tantal@sbcglobal.net

These guys are advertizing Barnaul, but the fine print list that it may be tiger, barnaul or silver bear. Maybe you can contact them and specify a brand? http://makarov.com/cart/ammobox.htm

That mount is from Yukon Advanced Optics I believe. If you google that name you should get a link to the vender websight. That optic was made for a specific night vision scope if I remember correctly. It should work with red dot sight, but it might bring the eye relief in a little too close for other conventional scopes.

This is a link to the regulation that requires a foreign parts conversion when using ak mags in Saiga. http://www.atf.gov/firearms/assault/report.htm

When you use U.S. made plus-ten-cap. mags you have just added 3 U.S. Made parts and must replace only one more on the rifle. When you use foreign made mags you must replace four parts, and a muzzle attachement and pistol grip don't count for those four because the Saiga never had them during import. If you modify ak mags to work only in the Saiga I believe you still must add the four U.S. made parts. That is my opinion and its a gray areas as far as gov't documentation to support it, but better safe than sorry.

The regulations regarding magazine capacity and the sporting purposes test were last updated in 1998 as far as I can research. Click the link below and read the Treasury press release. That contains the most important part of the regs although some of the other links on this page are interesting. http://www.atf.gov/firearms/assault/report.htm According to my reading of the regulation the sporting purposes test is very narrowly applied to Military Magazines, they even create nice new acronym "L.C.M.M." for Large Capacity Military Magazine. I would say that K DAWG is correct in his

There are 20 parts defined on the ATF list. The stock Saiga has 14 of those. So replace 4 defined parts and you are at ten. If you add any of the parts on the full 20 list like a pistol grip or a muzzle attachement they must be U.S. made. The thing to remember is it is not about the parts you add it is about keeping the foreign parts below ten. 1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings (2) Barrels (3) Barrel extensions <edit>-not on saiga (4) Mounting blocks (trunions) (5) Muzzle attachments <edit>-not on saiga (6) Bolts (7) Bolt carriers (8)

cvasqu30 this is the parts list you were hoping for from the BATF. (1) Frames, receivers, receiver castings, forgings or stampings (2) Barrels (3) Barrel extensions <edit>-not on saiga (4) Mounting blocks (trunions) (5) Muzzle attachments <edit>-not on saiga (6) Bolts (7) Bolt carriers (8) Operating rods <edit>-not on saiga (9) Gas pistons (10) Trigger housings <edit>-not on saiga (11) Triggers (12) Hammers (13) Sears <edit>-not on saiga (14) Disconnectors (15) Buttstocks (16) Pistol grips <edit>-not on stock imported saiga (17)

While I haven't seen the contents of this latest letter yet, I believe that a factory Saiga mag of thirty rounds is legal while the 30 round ak mag is not. The import regulations that cover magazine capacity in imported semi-autos very specifically cover military mags which a saiga mag is not.(although only a few millimeters of metal and plastic make it different from the ak mag.) http://www.atf.gov/firearms/assault/report.htm Read the press release and tell me if you interpret the regulation the same way I do?

You are right I have not done an exhaustive study of Hmong history or any abuses they might have perpetrated on the immigration or welfare system. My experiences come mostly from one man about my age that I worked with for a short while. He worked two jobs and told stories of his father being a "veteran". He also told me that when he left his country as a boy that his family didn't want to leave, but they were afraid of being killed. My family came to this country generations ago. They were fleeing from starvation and not violence. I for one, still would like the immigration laws in t

What you don't seem to understand, when speaking about the entire Hmong population, is they can't move back home. They fought for our CIA in Laos. Since the CIA is no longer supporting a Hmong army in Laos, for them to return to their homeland means death. Their population is slow to adapt to american customs, but that is true for most populations that come to america fleeing violence instead of chasing oppurtunity. Why because they don't want to be here at first, but the other choice is death. They great thing about america is they don't have to follow anybody's customs, but their own.

The race of this shooter is a side issue. We all know the fact that he was Hmong didn't cause him to shoot these people. The reason it has come up is because his lawyers cannot dispute the fact that he pulled the trigger in all of the deaths. So they must come up with a defense that puts the best possible light on why he pulled the trigger. So you play the race card. When you take the media reports and draw up the best possible order of events for the shooter what do you get? He was called a racial slur and then his victims shot at him first. He still then proceeded to kill the person wit

The other thing to remember is that once you add an ak mag to a saiga you have built a non-importable rifle according to 922r and all the other import regulations. To be legal you have to the play the us made parts game. The inconsistant part about the law is that factory mags for the saiga are legal in a capacity larger than 10, because they have always been designed for a civilian rifle. The ak mag invokes the import law, because the regulation uses specific language pertaining to large capacity military magazines. Do a search on this forum and you can find links to the exact la

Check this link out. He doesn't list his sources for the information, but it sure appears definitive. http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jfreeman246/page_5.htm

What information is the, saiga or AK style, reputation for bad accuracy based on? Think about the type of shooting most saiga or AK owners would take part in. Chances are is you took a random sampling of this group they spend a lot less time shooting for accuracy than say bench rest enthusiasts. Maybe this generalization about the saiga/ak shooter is just as bad as the original generalization about accuracy. The rifles are relatively inexpensive as well as the ammo so I just don't think the owners of these guns spend as much time on accurizing these guns as they might other guns. That bein

Just for the sake of trivia, russian soldiers in afghanistan would choose the metal mag over polymer every time. The metal mags in the common ak chest pouch actually were thought of as a small measure of protective body army. The inverse was the plastic magazines would create fragments inside the body that were much more difficult to detect with x-ray once the soldier was in a hospital. May you never have to choose between ak mags based on this information.

Vulcan762 I find your thoughts on the definition of hi-capacity interesting. Maybe you need to start a thread devoted to only that subject and let everyone else weigh-in. 97widerider Just to caution you, once you place an ak mag of more than ten rounds in your saiga you are required to follow the less than 10 foreign parts regulation of imported semi-auto rifles. I can't re-type it all, but the following links should explain. Read the Department of Treasury Press Release first. http://www.atf.gov/firearms/assault/report.htm http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/wbardw...tf_letter24.tx

Just a what if. Is it possible that a magazine follower, if designed correctly, could make up for lack of a feedramp? If Tapco would design and market something like that you could kill two birds with one stone. Solve the feedramp dilema and one more U.S. part to bring down your foreign parts count.

I there a place on this forum we can permanently place the legal resources we find as they apply to the Saiga? If we could provide links to the primary resources on these subjects we could save a lot of rumor and misinformation.

AK-tre08 The is a law that covers imported semi-automatic rifles passed in 1989, the common short hand when refering to this law is section 922r. Basically this law requires that imported semi-auto rifles must pass a sporting purposes test. The details of the sporting purposes test can change according to regulations decreed by the Secretary of the Treasury.(the boss of the ATF). As far as I can tell the sporting purposes test bans import of ak types with separate pistol grips, folding stocks, bayonet mounts, threaded muzzles, flash suppressors, grenade launchers, night sights or bipod mounts