[SAIGA 12 MAGWELL COMPLETED]

Jack, do you have any info on the safety selectors that were on your shotguns? Are you planing to sell a kit or anything? I really like the design, very clean and compact! Please try and make these available also. Thanks.

[WTF!!!!!]

I figured that my statements would touch on a few nerves. Don't get me wrong, I whole heartedly agree that a firearm that eats everything reliably, is preferable to one that is ammo selective, but I still refer you back to this weapons original design and purpose. Although they are marketed to the civilian world now, I don't think that marketing trumps design for the true value of a product. Since this forum seems to be a great resource for an aspiring purchaser of a new S-12, I really felt that my statement would bolster the reputation of this fine weapon. It was starting to sound like they were unreliable guns, that were to be sent directly to the gunsmith, immediately upon purchase. As I noted before, there are some manufacturing issues of note, but largely the problems surrounding the gun were from the gun being used out of spec.

Well I've got to admit, I don't have mine yet, I had to put it on layaway, so I came here to check out how I wanted to build it up while I'm waiting. One thing that drew me to the Saiga-12 was the seemingly endless variety of mods a person can do to personalize it. But then I saw thread after thread of reliability issues, so I'm spending a lot of time to prepare myself to know what to do if I do have problems. In the end, it will be more beneficial though, because I do believe that a person should have an intimate working knowledge of any gun they own. I think it's great that there is a site where you can share with others and get good feedback instead of just chasing your tail trying to identify and fix problems on your own! that could get expensive and time consuming real quick and cause a person to just give up and label it as a POS waste. I'm glad someone finally pointed out that there were some made that work out of the box! lol. I was starting to wonder just what the hell I got myself into! I wish there was a support group like this for USAS-12's, but I'm hoping that I'm learning enough that maybe I can start trouble shooting it a bit. It's been a long time since I've shot it. The manual states at the very front it was designed to work with Winchester Super X 00 Buck. There is a LOT of great advice and tips here! Thanks.

[Which is your preferred FCG]

thought i would let you guys know about this...

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=35778&hl=

 

if you don't already have one now might be a good time to buy

I get a broken link message. What were you refering to? Thanks.

[20 Rd Drum FAQs]

What I wanted to ask, which some weird IPS error prevented me from saying was the following:

 

The FFL who transferred my S-12 to me was telling me that the gun and the drum mags are legal to own, but the second you combine the two, the drum+gun combo is potentially a Destructive Device, and then covered under NFA. He told me this after we got into a discussion about semi-auto shotguns, and his interest in why I chose the S-12 over a Benelli or any other semi-auto, and at one point, I mentioned the availability of the drums, and the fact that I would really like to buy one at some point.

 

It didn't really sound right to me, but I just wanted to ask the experts here to see if it was true or not, since if what he said was true, it's a rather serious offense. I read the FAQ, and as written, it seems to neither validate nor disprove his assertion, since the FAQ seems to focus on the ownership of the drum as opposed to the usage of it - I apologize if I am merely misreading it.

 

He was mentioning USAS-12 and Streetsweepers as the precedents, but I was pretty sure that the ATF went after those two firearms individually by name, and not through some sort of broad-sweeping legislative decision, mainly due to the AWB-mentaltity of the time, and the fact that they came with "hi-cap" mags right out of the box and were not "sporting" firearms, so the ATF placed them under the NFA? I'm not the most knowledgeable person on NFA items, but I remember someone telling me that was what happened...

 

Anyway, thanks!

 

Yeah, hes completely wrong. There would be no point in owning a drum if it were illegal to combine with the gun. Guns such the street sweeper were outlawed by name and labelled as DDs, however I believe this is primarily due to the integrated nature of the drum. A saiga-12 has as much sporting purpose as any other semi-automatic gun, and the drum is just an extended capacity magazine (which is perfectly legal). The BATF typically won't outlaw just a magazine (I don't even think they can).

The USAS-12 and StreetSweeper were individually named as Destructive Devices. The ban was not a blanket ban, so it only pertains to them. The only thing illegal on the USAS-12 is the barrel. Every thing else on or about the gun is legal. The barrel is 18" long, so that isn't the issue. The issue is, Congress declared that the BORE of the shotgun was greater than 1/2", and that "it served no suitable sporting purpose". That's IT. They could say that about ANY 12 Gauge shotgun actually. If you purchased one before it was declared a Destructive Device, you had the option to register it with the ATF and have it grandfathered, however, you could not give it to anyone or sell it to anyone unless it was to a Class 3 Destructive Device licensed dealer. It can't be passed down in the family after you die, or sold to Joe Blow. You had to register it with the ATF and your local police force with copies of a color photo of yourself and fingerprints, or be subjected to fines and confiscation of it and your other weapons, as it was illegal to own, and you would be classified a felon. Ask me how I know.

[DONATIONS?]

Personally I hate this Saiga site. I stumbled onto this web site by accident about two months ago looking for info about a 9mm. Since I started hanging out here I have spent about a thousand dollars! And now I plan to spend even more dough. This place consumes several of my valuable hours each week reading (and re-reading) each post. My son now hangs around with me again begging money for range time. My wife nags every time the post man drops a box on the porch. And then the people who post here all seem to be un-American. In the last 6 weeks I have sent 5 members cash for some sort of Saiga part and not one has ripped me off. How un-American is that? My only guess is they didnt finish business school. They keep nagging me with "I can help you with that" E mails. Yup as soon as I know everything there is to know about Saigs and I have a collection of about 15 or 20 beautifully tricked our weapons AND after I have posted photos of them all and read the complements about 50 times..... I am going to recommend that this site be shut down. Sorry guys...thats just how I feel......

 

 

The family that shoots together, has interlocking fields of fire.

LOL! That's pretty much my story also. I was looking for info on USAS 12's and came across this site. I didn't know anything about them, but have learned that they aren't in the same class (according to the govt) as the USAS and StreetSweepers, at least yet. When I saw some of the pic of members modified guns I was hooked! Yesterday I happened to be in a gun shop and asked the owner if he had any Saiga 12's, and lo and behold he had one. I don't really have the money right now, but it's on lay away. Should get it in a month or less. I couldn't wait to get back home and start planning my mods with the help of this site! I spent all my money on the lay away, so I won't be able to contribute until next week. I don't give a hoot about the color status, and I probably won't win any posting awards, but I know that it takes time, dedication and money to run a site like this. I hope it never comes down to a "rank has it's privileges" type of snobby site! It seems like there are quite a few cool people here and I do plan on becoming a regular contributor. Thanks Makc, and all the others who help out!