pedal2alloy

I think the demand for those has tapered off in the last few years due to the other choices that have come out. There are also korean or other asian knock offs of those 5 rounders too. Don't know how good they are.

They might actually get them pretty cheap, but can't get too many. So the selling price is based on the low supply and high demand. They would probably be at $150 again if there weren't the other choices like there are now.

Does it happen when it is going full speed?

Yeah http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/76076-md-arms-double-stack-mag-patent/?p=1034828

Yes, but nicely done

I think a reviewer can be swayed by hearing all of the talking points from the supplier, and then not having any rebuttal information. That and also getting a free gun, and they turn into fanboys.

https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/molot-vepr-12-saiga-12-alternative-or-upgrade/

https://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/dp-12-review-a-functional-double-barrel-bullpup/

"Felt" recoil is subjective because the amount of energy of the recoil is not diminished. You are not going to reduce the energy of the recoil unless you have some kind of muzzle brake that works and most of them don't. (unless it is one of big ones you see competition shooters using like a mid-barrel) But you can reduce how sharp of a pulse it is by spring/piston devices. Videos won't prove anything. If the guy put a device on his gun and he says it helps with the recoil, I would tend to believe him.

With this type of thing, you have to improvise, adapt and overcome, like Cobra's Custom says. Your gunsmith is just a "by the book" guy and doesn't want to mess with it (or mess it up)

Sweet. It looks pretty stock except for the wheels and side pipes.

I actually don't really watch Jim Fullers videos so I didn't know he said that...lol I have a friend that builds high quality AKs that I went through machinist school with. He built my AK74 and during the build process we were trying to decide on a safety for it. I was going to go with a Galil type safety but we decided to go with the Krebs enhanced safety that I have on my Saiga12. After we installed it I noticed that it was a little tougher to actuate The the one on my Saiga12. Thats when he schooled me in person on the reason why because I was just going to bend it a little too...lol

Reloading, detachable mag is fast, that's true. But maybe the ideal thing would be detachable twin tube. Per GunFun, the mechanics to switch the feed from 1 tube to the other would have to be redesigned to be automatic. I'm only talking about a theoretical future shotgun, and I really like the compact format of that KSG. But I do agree that the added mechanical complexity is a negative

To me, the double stack is an attempt to upscale a format beyond it's limits of reliability. (Spring force of heavy rounds against gravity into funnel) But if you went to redesign a shotgun from scratch like Kel Tec did or others are going to do, it would most likely be mag-fed but abandon the traditional format. I like what Kel Tec did as far as being high capacity and compact, with likely scaleability to larger capacity. I also like how it ejects down So when other manufactures go to develop their modern shotgun, presumably they would go with a similar design rather than drums or mag

The best magazine format so far is the Kel Tec shotgun. 12 rounds in 2 tubes below the barrel. That could be scaled up to hold more rounds and the gun redesigned to be semi auto.

I don't want to be a party pooper because I hope they work and make it into production. But I am sure the reason that they have not, is that they can't be made to work reliably. If you look at a double stack rifle mag, the shells are metal and slick, and also the shape of the rounds are a thin cylinder. These characteristics are what help the rounds combine into the narrower column. One more thing is that there is no issue with the rims. Imagine trying to get plastic shells (fat, heavy, not slick) to organize into a single column while also somehow organizing the overlap of the rims.

Has anyone installed one of these?

Most likely, the issue is that it doesn't work. Too hard to get the double column to sort itself into single. Too much friction, it's a logjam.

I thought your picture was of 2 doorstops

12 customers thought that the R&R ones were so much better that they traded in their factory ones?

Yes, the 22" guns are full choke, but I think you can shoot buckshot thru it within reason. If you are going to shoot thousands of rounds, then you could cut off some of the barrel. It is cylinder bore at 18" length, and you can also have it threaded for chokes at that point

The brake is causing the wad to tumble. But not really an issue unless it is affecting your accuracy

Ha, I forgot about the 45º BUIS. That's rich

The stock raise is only slight, and is much more of a positive than a negative

Chaos is far too heavy from what I've read. IMO all the rail things are too heavy and unkind to the hand for how nimble a shotgun should and can be. That said, I think Chaos are the lightest and best made of the bunch for the s12. I know people like the rails because they look all bad-ass, but they are lame because you don't need that much rail all over your gun. If you are a rail fan, you might say "but I can mount a flashlight, laser, vertical grip, bayonet, extra optics etc to my gun" but you won't, and if you do, you shouldn't. It's "airsoft mall ninja"