Steph
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Posts posted by Steph
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Thanks, since my photography skills are also lacking, it looks rougher in person. I am mainly interested in function.
Someone once called my S12 "the most butt-ugly gun (he'd) ever seen" so...
It was straightforward and needed minimal skill and effort, but if anyone would like more pictures or pointers, I'd be happy to.
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Hey, I tried! I'm better at hack machining than computing! What does "not allowed to use that image extension mean?!
I'll try again, since you were nice enough to call my post interesting and lame, but don't get miffed if they are too many gigabytes or something...
I'll look better once I smooth the grinding and get some paint on it.
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Always tinkering and modding my S12, I wanted an additional receiver dust cover to ruin.
I searched the forum and found that OEM covers were priced at about $70 and no one actually had them. There was inconclusive discussion about whether an AK rifle cover would work. Soooo...
I purchased an "NC Star" AK cover with a picatinny rail for $18.90 from Optics Planet.
(If you aren't familiar with NC Star, they sell "economy" gun parts probably made by grade school kids in Taiwan, and
IMHO, quality ranges from trash to 'pretty decent for the money')
The cover was not bad, good gauge of metal, and judging by the effort to cut and grind it, fairly hard steel, design and manufacturing seemed solid.
Naturally, it would not fit. After all, an AK and an S12 receiver are two different sizes! Duh.
I approached the problem as I believe an Izhmash engineer would -- I threw back 2 shots of 'wodka', and grabbed the Dremel and a hammer.
(note: if Thomas Edison had a Dremel, we'd be driving our flying cars by now)
I am here to report that with not much effort, this cover can be modified (forced?) to fit, and seems to work just fine with a few test shots (shells, not vodka). It ain't pretty. It ain't MOA. But now for $19 I have my HK rear sight, and can use a red dot.
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Mods
Move trigger group forward*
Machine rear of receiver*
Welded rear receiver plate*
Gas block aligned*
Enlarged gas ports*
*Tromix
Barrel cut to 12”
Bolt ground and polished
Side sight mount removed
Rear iron sight dovetail removed
Poly-Choke Variable choke
HK sights
Bolt, carrier, trigger group bearing surfaces polished
Parts
US Trigger group components
CSS gas piston
Six position gas regulator
Pin retaining plate
Stainless guide rod
High power recoil springs
Fore and aft magazine guides
Vertical operating handle
Extended ambidextrous magazine release
Higher power magazine release spring
Krebs extended safety / dust cover
Bolt hold open
Tritium night sight inserts
Folding stock hinge
Ace entry stock
Custom picatinny rail and handguard
Mako foregrip
Ergo pistol grip
Tac Vector slip on grip sleeve
Agrip grip cover
Stock mounted magazine pouch w 8-round magazine
Spray paint
As long as I feed it what it likes, it will never, ever complain.
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Like I said, OCD (Obsessive-compulsive disorder)
Make that "Compulsive-Disorder-Obsession" that way the LETTERS CDO ARE IN ALPHBETICAL ORDER THE WAY THEY SHOULD BE!!
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You all are required to find my half-baked manure interesting too.
So you got a recipie for that half baked manure? Food supplys are starting to get low this time of year
O.K.! That's it! If you aren't Going to take me seriously I'm leaving!
Really!
I mean it!
I'll go... then you'll be sorry!
Really! I will!
I'm going... Now!
Hello?
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I just wished to announce that I am going to be staying... I'll keep posting that fact redundantly just to make sure you are all paying attention to ME for once.
But everybody be forewarned: I will only stay if you all post only topics that I want to read, and each post must be ab-so-lute-ly freaking fascinating to me.
You all are required to find my half-baked manure interesting too.
Failure to comply will result in my repeatedly and loudly announcing my departure.
I wish to receive a PM from every member acknowledging that they have read and agreed to this.
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You'll probably call me naive, but I don't see a big conspiracy of evil Democrats trying to take away my rights so they can enslave me. And I don't see the BATF as some hideous facist organization laying the groundwork for my oppression. Most of these folks are decent people, who just are operating under a significantly different value system than mine. If I see a risk, I take action to protect myself. When they are frightened, they want a powerful government to protect them. They truly believe that passing laws changes the world. This may make them unenlightened, or even misguided, but I believe that for the most part our goals and intentions are similar.
I am an adult and I accept the risks that come with free will. But I am a dictator that infringes on my kids' rights all the time, because I feel I know better than them and I must protect them from danger. But most Americans have never faced want or real danger, and are so removed from the realities of life, that they don't see a problem with letting the government be their parent, make the big decisions, and pass laws to 'keep them safe'. The reason the government can get away with this, is the majority don't mind, they don't care, they don't vote; so bureaucracies like the BATF are just promulgating the will of the people.
We (people who believe in freedom and self-determination) must accept that we are a minority that is regarded with fear and suspicion. And we should go out of our way to educate and enlighten the sheep to shake them out of the doldrums of their foolish dogmas. It does no good to be antagonistic and threatening; shouting at the wind about the commies and the lefties; you need to recognize their values are different, and start there using logic to show them why we need the constitution.
Sadly, one of the prices we pay for freedom is we will occassionally have angry psychopaths abuse that freedom by hurting innocents. I still think that is preferable to living safely in a cage; and further, that giving the most rights to the most citizens eventually result in a society with less abuse of those rights. There will be more gun control legislation now; but don't react with a fatalistic attitude of "here it comes, watcha gonna do..." Or whining. And don't claim you are going to hit the street with your Saiga and fight the power unless you really have the stones to do it. Your time would be better spent writing letters, and talking to your neighbors logically about your opinions. If you believe in democracy, you should use it, and accept things ain't always gonna go your way.
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Interesting and ingenious... but that's all. But I think for my use too big, ungainly, bulky, clumsy, heavy, slow to reload. Tactically, I wouldn't want to be burdened with this toy if I was fighting for my life.
Oh, and don't equate communism with totalitarianism anymore than capitalism is democracy. I think you're mixing your economic and political systems there.
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Tactical tailor has a pouch that fits 3 10-rounders pretty well (a bit loose side to side, but the top flap cinches down so they don't rattle badly, and they are a bit easier to grip and remove).
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How times change... When I started in the cop biz, we carried .357s and 2 speedloaders = 18 rounds. The few cops who carried 3 or 4 speedloaders were considered paranoid. Now I carry a .40 S&W with 18 in it, and 2 - 17 round mags, and a few more in the squad.
The fact is, in most gun situations, the mere appearance of a firearm stops the altercation, so you don't need ammo at all! If shots are fired, in the majority of shootouts, most of the rounds will miss; but any round of any type hitting the assailant will stop their attack in most cases.
So how many rounds do you need? Enough that you can give away a few as cover fire if need be, engage multiple assailants knowing that under the stress of the attack and the dynamics of combat even a trained combat shooter is going to miss with quite a few rounds; and still have eough to hit each assailant with multiple incapacitating fire so that they immediately are unable to move one finger, 'cause if they can, they can kill you right back.
That's a hell of alot of rounds. That's why 10 isn't enough, you need detachable mags with a quick 10 more, and 10 after that; oh, and another 10. (and...)
Who's to say that in the next few years we won't have double-digit inflation and unemployment, and roving bands of meth-cranked slime who travel about knocking over houses for the cash, food, gas, sex, and mayhem they can grab? 5 or 6 rounds is folly.
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What I want to see is a magwell that is simply a "funnel" to provide a larger target to get the magazine into under stress. This would not require any engineering, and would use existing mags. It would be much simpler to produce and install. I don't mind the rock and lock, as my carbine and my rifle all rock and lock, I don't see it as being particularly problematic.
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ICK!
Guns is tools!
Don't be putting anything on them that ain't functional!
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First on the strength issue: that thin plastic is much stronger than it will ever need to be. The strength of that plastic, especially in a tube, is phenomenal. (Try to collapse an uncreased, unwrinkled tube from a roll of toilet paper lengthwise between your hands). I once had to go up in an articulated arm lift (a "cherry picker") for work. I am not fond of heights. I was told by the guy instructing me the tubes that make up the arms of those things are fiberglas that is only 3/16" thick.
As to recoil; I too feel the Saiga is the kindest recoiling shotgun I've ever shot. I'm recoil shy and I don't like to shoot my 870s, but the S-12 doesn't bother me. Weight will tend to reduce felt recoil, but be careful, because weight up front sometimes inhibits muzzle rise, and causes the gun to push straight back with more force, instead of lifting its own weight, which takes up energy and reduces felt recoil.
I'd put something heavy (like bird shot in a sealed container) in the stock. also, buy the thickest, widest limbsaver pad, and grind it down to match the stock. It looks a little goofy, but will help dramatically.
Here's what I did on one of my rifles:
the more material you leave, the more it will distribute the recoil. -
Okay, okay! It seems after I posted my last, and pointed out to the wife that there were tracks pulling up in front of the house and stopping that could ONLY be attributed to the UPS truck. (We are quite rural, and it has been raining, and I pay attention) She started laughing her big round white butt off and produced the boxes she had been hiding. I GOT MY MAGS! I am one happy dude! While ultimate happiness cannot be achieved by material ends, being the baddest mofo in the valley, with the most devistating hand-held weapon there is goes one hell of a long way!
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WTF?! I am order #63!! I showed faith, where are my @#$%&*! mags?!!
I come home every day hoping to see my lil' white box, and nothin'!
AHHHHHRRRGGGHH!
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I would expect the point of aim to change as the barrel got warmer, which is a bit different from it's accuracy. Why don't you try shooting a bunch of shells and get the barrel good and warm, and then shoot a few groups to see how it is grouping when hot. That, I think shows its true accuracy. I'm not sure what kind of sights you have, that could make quite a difference; or your ammo, and consider it could be... you!
(gasp!). What do you consider poor accuracy in a shotgun? There's a reason they don't make 12 gauge smoothbore sniper rifles. -
Hmmmm..... thoughts....
1) Ain't this the Saiga 12 forum?
2) Why would you want to? Aren't you sending a slug with a poor gas seal down an unrifled barrel? What for? What's that slug heading to? Isn't there something better you can use?
3) If it's just for the sense of adventure, more power to ya, that's how mankind got as far as it has, but of course, lot's of people have died, been blinded, crippled, scarred; after saying, "Hey, watch THIS!"
4) I'd start by looking at any of the many reloading handbooks or online, find out what the peak pressure of both rounds is, that may be a clue as to whether its advisable.
5) As an aside, I used to take .444 Marlin brass, cut it down so it was the same length as my S&W model 25 .45 Colt cylinder, and make shotshells that worked pretty well.
OUCH. Ain't I cool?!
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I'm thinking something like this, but sized for 2-10 rounders, side-by-side:
OR 
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Now that us lucky bastards are getting 10-round mags, we have to carry them around.
With all the various and bizarre surplus and commercial pouches I've seen, there has to be something out there that will handle these monsters.
I haven't had one in hand yet, but working from the pic on the APG website, they look to be a bit longer than 11 3/4", and my 5 rounders are 1 3/16" inches wide, 3 3/8" long.
What is out there that would hold one, two, or three mags?
Preferably in nylon, adaptable to ALICE or MOLLE gear; in green or camo (am I asking too much?) There have been a few posts that have mentioned places that may do custom pouches; does anyone know any options?
And who wants my money that is going to make a magwell that takes standard mags?
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You are all a quart short of an oil change. $100 for a $25-$30 mag (and that's with a healthy profit) is insane, and it will go on a long a people bend over and take it. Sad.
How can people be for freedom, then bitch when other folks excercise it?! I'm never paying that much for a mag, but why should we care if someone else wants to? It's only money after all.
I think $55.00 dollars for a 10 round mag is overpriced, but I'm willing to pay it because of supply and demand. I don't think the guy is ripped off if he walks away $200.00 lighter for a $25.00 mag and is happy. Its not sad, its amusing. I think I'm seeing envy from folks who don't have high cap mags and don't have that kind of money to throw around. Unless of course you're a socialist, and think the government should decide what is a fair profit, and set price controls to try to prevent gouging.
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Right on, hip hip hooray for America and capitalism. Good for him, Caveat emptor! If we can buy Manahttan for $28 worth of baubles, I say if the seller and buyer are happy, I won't sit on the sidelines and judge or interfere.
I paid almost $1,000.00 for a converted Saiga 12, and put another $500 in it, because at the time they couldn't be found, and I'm not whining. (BTW, I'm #63 on the AGP mag preorder list!!)
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My info may be a bit out of date, but there was an FBI study some years back that concluded #4 buck was the best compromise between pellet size, pellet count, downrange perfomance (velocity and power), penetration on flesh, chance of ricochet or overpenetration, pattern spread, % hit potential, and stopping power. IF you had to limit yourself to one shell. As with all compromises, it is not optimal in any area, but pretty good in all. My Department switched to #4 buck in a 2 /34" shell based on this. We haven't had cause to use it on a human yet, but in our informal tests, qualification shoots, and putting down animals ranging from oppossum size to deer (often) it seems to perform really well.
S 12 ready conditions
in Saiga-12
Posted
Hope this hasn't been covered... I am always debating the balance between having a firearm safe, and a firearm ready.
It is particularly difficult with the S 12, as we all know about "top shell deformation" if we leave a magazine locked in under a closed bolt. Even with my bolt relieved so I can load a full mag on a closed bolt, my mags will deform a shell to the point where it will not chamber in under a day, even when I load down 1 shell.
I don't believe it is safe to leave a full mag in and the bolt locked back if it is not in my hands, and I have experimented with different trigger locks, but have been unhappy with the results.
What I am doing now is loading 9 shells in a 10-round magazine, and the top "shell" is one of those high-quality aluminum 'snap-caps', and the mag loaded on a closed bolt.I feel comfortable leaving the firearm in this condition for instance, in my bedroom at night, or in the gun rack when I am home alone and working around the house and grounds. If I feel I need to transition to condition orange, (zombies, terrorists, aggressive mice) I need only rack the operating handle... TWICE.
It appears one can leave the firearm indefinitely in this condition without deforming the second shell. I can also easily make it more secure by removing the mag, or putting a trigger lock on. Obviously, the drawback is that under stress one might not remember to rack the action twice... or not at all. Then one has a failure to fire with the first needed shot.
Hmmm... everything in firearms is a compromise. Thoughts? Alternatives? Solutions so we can live in a society where one does not want a shotgun at the ready?