csspecs
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Posts posted by csspecs
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Uhh, no.
It's a reinforcing stamping that is not an indexing location. This has never been a problem since the stamping is not needed for the hole and the hole is not needed for the stamping.
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A few things. First shells come in different lengths, you have 2 3/4" and 3", the 20ga saiga uses two lengths of magazine to handle this. Most common shells are 2 3/4 and you can get defensive and hunting grade buck and slugs in 2 3/4" so 3" are not super necessary.
Then there are two styles of crimp, roll crimp which is longer, and star crimps or fold crimps which are more common.
The length of the brass does not change the length of the shell.
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2013 ammo production was very dodgy stuff.. My own homemade reloads from 2009 are better than most of the factory bulk pack stuff in 2013. I had some federal that was not sized right and the metal bases would not seat in anything, not even a double barrel, ended up having to run it through my reloading sizer to use it, a little dangerous to size live ammo but nothing exploded.
My new policy on ammo buying, buy it when it's not made in a rush.. I loaded up pretty heavy from 2015 to the end of 2019. When the panic buying started I stopped buying pretty much everything. The QC on everything sucks, even ritz crackers are inconsistent right now, got a whole carton that came extra crumbly and clearly didn't mix right.
In my opinion you would be out of your mind to buy a new car made in 2020 or the first half of 2021.
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8 hours ago, dkwright said:
For those of us who own a Black Aces tactical does anyone know where we could get a couple of magazines that work?
My suggestion. Promag, caliper and a file.. Figure out what the difference is and make them the same.
ALWAYS measure relative to the AMMO. Goal is ammo into gun, as long as the ammo is in the same position in the gun, the shape of the outside of the magazine is totally irrelevant. So if you are lining two magazines up, load a few rounds into the magazines and use the lock up points to compare.
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7 hours ago, gunfun said:
That is a valid correction.
I think it's good that you aren't in contract with black aces. They have done enough scammy stuff, you would get burned somehow by association.
With all of the adkal clones out there, what stops you from jumping on that market? Are the selling points too low?
Yeah probably for the best.
Nothing stopping me from the MKA-1919 and clones, except for a HUGE lack of consistency with the guns. I can't afford to fix that mess.. There are products we have walked away from because the original makers botched their quality control to the point that it is too costly to fix the problems, people have this idea that shipping stuff back and forth is cheap, how much profit is left shipping a $40 item back and forth a few times at $11.95 per trip? Nothing.
I can and do make stuff that is not for guns. I like making gun parts, it's fun. But I'd rather weld flashing parts for weeks on end than fix someone else's mistakes that I get blamed for.
Lately I've been slipping more toward older .22lr magazines, obsolete stuff, and stuff that is not gun parts. I've grown tired of chasing the ever changing 'new thing'. You barely get the new thing rushed to market and they are already moving onto something new.
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1 hour ago, gunfun said:
Yep. Still a sketchy company.
BTW, stop thinking about brass height. It's misleading. Look at the muzzle energy of the shells. That's what you actually want to know. Mass x velocity.
It's actually half mass x velocity square.
https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/physics/kinetic.php
But yeah either is better than high brass low brass.
And I'm amused by black aces abandoning their magazine production. We offered to make them under some sort of mutually beneficial agreement. But they wanted to make money on the magazines. They patent locked their magazines by making the gun use a feature they had a patent on. Same for the remington box mag guns.
Current patents are 20 years I think. So I can make replacements for the black aces gun in 2034 and the Remington in I think 2038.
I can start making double stacks in 2029 only 8 years away.
Currently have a knock off of a stupid patent locked .22lr magazine, the patent was issued in 1903, guns design kinda sucks because it was designed around a magazine that was a gimmick over 100 years ago.
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How about a snap cap? Load a snap cap as your top round, triple confirm it, then chamber the snap cap, when you go to fire the snap cap is ejected and the fresh round loaded.
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with Russian guns a file is your friend. It's not that complicated, but these are not AR-15s. Most parts require fitting.
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Yeah you need to add some metal to the safety to get it to engage.. It is not a hard job, I did mine in like 15 minutes but not everyone has a welder.
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I think we just ran out of the second batch, we are in the process of making more.
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Maybe use an empty shell filled with a dowel rod?
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Most shops use a bullet trap for test firing.. I have a small 10 yard indoor range (underground) which doubles as a hurricane shelter. Only issue is that it is a pain to decontaminate before storms, it takes a whole day, and another half a day to process the water used for cleaning.. If I was a gunsmith I'd probably do a small shipping container with a bullet trap and sound insulation, and a very large multi stage hepa filter on the exhaust.
One thing with a home range is that if possible your bullet impacts should have something above them, that way any glances will hit something, like the target should be below some logs or other bullet catches..
My range has a small impact zone, so when I need to rebuild the end the amount of contaminated soil is small, roughly 400 lbs, once the solid lead is removed for reuse the contaminated soil can be reused as backstop, or bagged up for disposal.
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Get some rounds down range.. Either you will find a use for it or you won't..
Mine gets used for grouse hunting in swamps from time to time.. And it went out for a couple hog hunts on an air boat.. Otherwise it is a range toy.. I normally use 5 round magazines with mine.. Five rounds is more than you can realistically use hunting, because all game animals are long gone by then. At the range I'll use the 10s or 20 round drum..
For home defense, I can't see anyone sticking around for 6-10 rounds of buckshot.. They are either dead or running away by round five... But my home defense is a pistol, with an AR-15 as the carbine, and a Ruger PC9 as the back ups back up.. But it is up to you.
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922R was primarily made for importers and manufacturers.. And I would point out that no one is checking this stuff since the law would most likely get struck down in court for several reasons.. So really nothing to worry about..
The 922R information is kinda dated and in my opinion was overblown to sell "compliance parts"
But just for the heck of it, let's imagine we care about 922r:
It's normally stated that the Saiga-12 has 15 counted parts, goal is 10 or less imported counted parts.. Three are in the magazine, one is in the stock, I think that stock is USA made, odds are the rail is as well and it is counted, The muzzle device is added, so if it is imported then you need to either remove it or swap another part. If it says USA you are good to go on that part as well. Odds are you are at or below 10 counted parts and are good to go with all magazines made in the USA, which is most of the ones on the market, and all of the ones that are not stupid expensive.
I make the steel ones..
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Ok so we switched over magazine types about two months ago. The spare parts fit the old style sold before 4/1/2019.. The parts are obsolete but could be useful as spares.
I have roughly the following left:
Followers: 30
Floor plates (reddish hue): 100
Retainer plates: 75Just PM me how many parts you want an your mailing address..
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Depends what your looking for. If I can't do it, or I think I'll be too expensive I'll tell you.. I might have a suggestion for another shop or two depending on what the part is.
I gave a price to a company back five months ago, and I felt like I was too high at first, but it was what I could do.. Well last week they came back and gave the green light for production, along with asking for quotes on three other parts.. So apparently I'm the cheapest option around for those parts... Surprised me.
Asking is pretty cheap (free).. Just try to have a drawing in my hands so I know what I'm looking at, a pencil drawing on printer paper is OK it just needs to have dimensions on it otherwise my brother gets really pissy.. And if I know what price point your going for I can help cut costs or increase quality depending on the goal.
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Well I'd suggest trying to get a single well made product off the ground as quickly as possible.. I think you'll find the AR-15 crowd to be very large.
Shotgun shells are difficult. Our first couple times tackling shotgun shell magazines did not go perfectly and it took multiple attempts to get it right, rifle rounds are significantly easier.
As for a patent, be ready for a cost as high as $10-15K, the file online patents are basically worthless because your claims have to have a very specific wording to work.. Also expect to find a few similar devices, because belt feed conversions of box magazine rifles have been tested back as early as the 30s, most of the time they worked well but took to many modifications to the original rifle to be worth doing... So if you get it worked out to be plug and play you probably have a winner of a product.
If you want some general suggestions on manufacturing google my user name.. My contact page has a phone number and an email address. I've been making gun parts for a decade and can give you some tips on how to get your product off the ground.. Just don't tell me much or anything about it until you have it protected.. I have a cnc mill, cnc laser and am happy to do short run contract manufacturing.
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Its possible to make such an item. But I promise the price will balloon.. Since you are planning to go to classes to learn how you have little experience.
Nothing is easy or cheap.. I'd suggest looking at similar devices and pricing.
Market value should be $300 or so.. Don't commit yourself to $100, I don't think that price point is possible.
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Sadly the window is slamming shut kinda fast. There was a stay placed on the judgement. People need to have their orders in by 5pm tomorrow to be grandfathered this time around. This is not done, it is just being appealed.
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Hard to blame heat treatment when there are no visible broken parts other than what is normal with a kaboom. None of the pressure parts are broken that I can see in any of the photos.
I screwed around with my saiga and I could almost get the bolt into the carrier in a way that would fire out of battery, I did not want to damage my shotgun so I stopped without forcing the parts together.. So it's "possible" that this is user error.. Also possible that a chain reaction of gun issues and incorrect modification could have also resulted in this issue.. To me this looks mostly like a OOB firing than a critical part failure... The other option is case head separation which is pretty much non existent in shotguns.
One thing that strikes me is that the bolt is not in the carrier when installed into the gun. And the damage to the cam lug seems inconsistent to what would happen if the bolt was correctly installed in the carrier.. Which leans more toward user error. You have to work pretty hard to get it in wrong, but I'm pretty sure it can be done.
With the bolt installed wrong it is possible for the firing pin to be struck without the bolt even close to being locked.
A couple photos of the Trunnion would be really nice, and the back of the bolt carrier. Because that could be the issue.
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Uhh I could be forgetting what a bolt looks like but I see BOTH lugs still there.. I see some chewing near the cam lug, but the cam lug is not a pressure containing area.. But the pictures would be nicer if they rotated the bolt around from the same perspective.
My theory is either trunnion failure, case head failure (ammo), or OOB, which would require the bolt carrier was made wrong or was modified to allow the hammer to strike the firing pin without being closed..
Could still be that the gun is total trash, but bolt lug failure does not seem to be the problem.
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OK to answer this topics original question.
I would say the idea of a collaborative project or licensed product is 100% DEAD.
So I'll be exiting this topic. If anyone wants to edit this into the start of the thread feel free to do so.
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Kinda like this one? Snail style 25 round for a Vepr that a guy on AK files made.. Even still doing both 2 3/4" and 3" is a touch changing.
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Yeah they rolled out a really cheap Saiga-12 magazine, and it looks like a lot of them went to dealers.. So not really surprising. Selling them directly as OEM helps, since there is a stigma about only buying original factory magazines.
Of course the SDS magazines are NOT factory magazines but are actually made by the importer, but hey how many gun buyers look that close? The market right now wants cheap... It may have demand for 3000 $29-34 magazines, but how much demand is there for a double stack is likely based on price. If the magazine is priced like the mossberg ones I doubt people are going to be buying 10 at a time.
And can people justify the cost over a drum? Is the double stack more or less cool looking? Hard to say without spending the money to find out. I have found forums not to always represent the average customer, forums are generally populated by enthusiast, the average customer is generally a casual buyer, and the ratio is something like 10 or 20 causal buyers to each enthusiast.
So it is entirely possible to have something that a forum loves but has really weak sales.
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Most reliable magazines for 12C (NOT including Russian made by Izmash, I already have an 5, 8 rd)
in Saiga-12
Posted
Next week.. Finisher had a machine breakdown which delayed the 8 round.