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About kmoore

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  1. kmoore

    What to do with my 12C?

    hadn't been on this board for years, decided to check on the state of the Saigas. Sorry to resurrect this thread, I had a 12c from a long time back, just after the ban sunsetted. I don't remember the number, but the 12c's came in on a weird exception. at 22 inches, that gun never failed to cycle/shoot. YMMV, and good luck.
  2. kmoore

    So which half is the "gun"

    hmmm, how did you come to that? The ATF doesn't even consider the Saiga 12 to have a trunnion. It does however consider it to have a receiver .....
  3. kmoore

    gauging interest in stamped steel floorplate.

    wondering what the point would be with these? Seems like 922r compliance will only be required to high capacity mags, but they will each replace/remove 3 foreign parts (including the floor plate) so I'm not sure of the point. Unless the high cap mags are being made by joining foreign mag bodies? I was hoping someone was working up US made hi caps?
  4. Not unheard of for pistol matches to hold "side" matches too. I ran a shotgun sidematch for a bit, was a lot of work and a lot of fun. It grew to be ~5 stages run after the match. we had 30-40 pistoleers, but usually only had 10 or fewer shotgunners. I usually had 1 field stage needing 25 - 35 rounds to complete, then a couple of tactical (shoot around barricades, etc) and usually something speedy involving 5 rounds or so (so that all classes compete heads up, except the occasional double bbl users ) It's a lot more effort to set up, mostly steel instead of cardboard, in the summer heat after a full day of shooting ... ughhh. But I had a few die hard fans that always helped to tear down.
  5. kmoore

    S-20 for 3 gun

    Here's my experience with recoil reduction.... I picked up my first Saiga years ago, it was a 20 ga as it was 30 or 40 bucks cheaper. I know my buds would give me grief as I was shooting a wussy caliber, but my knowledge on 20ga told me (intellectually) that recoil would be about the same as usually 20ga shotties run on lighter frames, so the perceived recoil would be similar (so in my mind I wasn't wimping out). Afterwards I found out that local matches at that time (this was likely somewhere around 2002 ish) require 00 buck (not available in 20ga) and one match even required 12ga. Then, my shooting bud decided to get a shotty, and wanted to test some out. He knew I liked to shoot so I went to help. We borrowed a S12, a Bennelli and a Remmy. We decided to check hammer drills, 5 pieces of steel as fast as we could (we only had 5 round mags). The other thing to know about me is I'm pretty recoil insensitive, often I can't tell much difference in shells that should have different recoil out of the same gun. I bought a knoxx recoil reduction stock and didn't notice any reduction. Anyways, when I ran the Saiga 12ga I remember being shocked that it DID kick noticeably more. This was a birdshot to bird shot comparison, cheap wally world bulk pack was what I usually shot in the 20 and what we were testing with that day. Looking back, I think DUH. Oh, and I eventually that S20 to buy a S12 ... that's the gun I sold that makes me cry to think of. Love the S12, but that S20 would RUN!!!! As for setting one up for competition, might reach out to board member wakal, I think he set up some s20's for his wife years back. I don't know when he was last on. Seems like his group was called dreadnaught industries, IIRC. I think he did some comp's, but I don't know if it was done on 20ga's.
  6. kmoore

    MY TAC 47 T.A.R.G.E.T. Testing

    Hey, I've followed this thread, and was surprised to see these work, as I thought they didn't in your original test report. Maybe I've missed something? I hacked out all but the relevant parts of your original data to focus my question. Also, I'm an data analyst, so the numbers always stick with me more than the vids, barely watched most ... would rather read the numbers Anyways, it looks like the cheap ammo didn't cycle with the factory spring, only with the reduced spring?
  7. kmoore

    Izhmash Factory 8 round mags available (for now)

    The trouble with determining reliability is that you have to shoot a BUNCH of rounds in a bunch of situations to measure it. Actually, you can only estimate it with certain bands of confidence, but that gets us to statistics. Each of us has varying levels of experience with their mags. My saiga is for action shooting competitions (3 gun and shotgun tactical). I've never baby'd my gear, drop it in the mud, throw the shotgun down, etc. I have an old post about dropping a mag in the mud, picking it up and putting it and a glob of mud into the shotgun, and finishing the course. I clean the shotgun when I feel like it (rarely).... I'm hard on all of my guns, but especially on the Saiga. In the early days I ran 5 and 8 round mags (nothing else invented yet). Later, I added AGP mags and later WM drums. Got a few promag sticks. Lastly I got some of the MD drums that he was giving away . Eventually I'll get some 12 round surefires when I get back competing. For me, aftermarket mags RARELY fail. The Promags are the worst (first generation) the AGP mags took some tuning (first generation). The WM drums have been scarey good. The MD20's have exactly 20 rounds thru one, and 40 rounds thru borrowed friends drums (not enough to comment on). If I had to guess the current level of reliability in action situations, I'd guess in the high 90's, probably 97 or 98 percent (I don't/won't currently use promags). But my factory mags have NEVER failed. I don't use them anymore, the aftermarket stuff is reliable enough for competitions, so they sit in the safe. Bottom line, IF I used my Saiga for HD, it would absolutely be with a factory 8. Period. But, if you can't afford one, or feel safe enough with other mags I don't really think anyone would call you outgunned or likely to loose any serious confrontation ... at least not because of poor functioning equipment.
  8. kmoore

    What will we have to do...

    Alliance offered their drum ~ a year earlier than Mike, IIRC. I think I was the first of the AA adopters on this board (?), I wrote this post http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=18771&st=0&p=160662&hl=drum&fromsearch=1entry160662 That is dated Aug 2007, I think they were shipping drums in July 2007. Can't remember when Mikes drums came out, I meant to get some of the early ones, but finances and priorities changed and I had 2 of the AA drums that run great. I did finally get some of his when price went to $100 ... now I'm contemplating more. The confusion likely comes from the fact that Mike announced the drum project (before anyone else), then wm joined (as a business partner) and announced they not only were working on them, but that they were near release.... I think WM wasn't too aware of the forum, and had done most of the development behind the scenes and un announced. Oh, and if you think there's some heat in some of those old threads (there is) ..... a lot of stuff got deleted too!!! you are looking at the TV-R version, the TV-MA stuff is on the editing room floor! Those were the good old days. As for DD, bottom line is no one really knows. A lot of what happened to the USAS12 and striker and streetsweeper was brought up by those much smarter than me and might give some ideas? But as similar as the S12 is, it's different enough that you never really know. I thought one intriguing idea (not mine) was that the drums might be registered as DD's as the shotguns are often otherwise sporting legal guns... But, for now the gungrabbing crowd seems to have lost power and that crew has bit off more than it cares for with healthcare debacle they've tied themselves to. The election should clear the way for the next few years ... liberals will need to regroup.
  9. kmoore

    Izhmash Factory 8 round mags available (for now)

    Ain't gonna happen. You're dealing with two different economies, mindsets, political situations, etc. The Russian eight rounders are the gold standard for structure/function/reliability. What Tritium said. The MD20 fell due to competition or hatred towards AA or need to fill up the bank account to finish out the doublestacks or the market bogging down at the old price point or some combination of the these. All of these were predictable, tho maybe not very likely. The Saiga 8 rounders would sell for ~ the price of the 5 rounders when they are legally imported in bulk by RAA or ??? That's very predictable, but also highly unlikely ... more likely the import of the Saiga goes away than that the > 5 round limit is abolished. So, I'm just saying, if you are waiting for a similar price drop ... it could happen, but is VERY unlikely.
  10. kmoore

    Shooting Slugs

    16ga just isn't needed anymore, mostly continues on life support that is due to fond memories.... 12ga std load is 1 1/8 oz 20ga std load is 7/8 oz 16ga std load is 1 oz ... and there are 1oz loads developed for the 20ga or a 12ga. But the 12ga is more likely to suffer in reliability so make sure before you start your hunt. (and likely buy, check the interweb). The other reason for the 16ga is it's lighter for when you are carrying in the field ... but the 20ga is a better solution (IMO). I know that just because the load is the same weight, it's not exactly the same. The gauge of the bbl affects the length of the shot column and this DOES affect the shot pattern, but the changes are very slight. Slugs that are made from slugs just won't hurt the shotgun, no matter the choke. But a looser choke will give you better precision, so if you are making precision (hunting) shots, you'd want to stick with modified or looser (that's where many see good results).
  11. Thanks nalioth... this will help to clarify this my question. Do you have the list of features that would prohibit importation of shotguns? All I've found is 925d3 where the sporting purpose language is (included below for reference) ... but don't have a list of what might make a firearm non-sporting (and therefor unimportable and subject to 922r should alterations be made to a sporting version.) (d) The Attorney General shall authorize a firearm or ammunition to be imported or brought into the United States or any possession thereof if the firearm or ammunition— skipping part 1 and 2 (3) is of a type that does not fall within the definition of a firearm as defined in section 5845(a) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 and is generally recognized as particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes, excluding surplus military firearms, except in any case where the Attorney General has not authorized the importation of the firearm pursuant to this paragraph, it shall be unlawful to import any frame, receiver, or barrel of such firearm which would be prohibited if assembled; Any clarification on what a muzzle device is. Sounds like (for 922r compliance) that ridding yourself of all foreign made "devices" ... even a thread protector ... would prevent this from adding to foreign parts count even if the threaded bbl remains. I LOVE this idea, but I think you'd either need to destroy/remove any muzzle devices from your possession (or there's possible constructive intent) or remove the threads/switch to internal threads.
  12. Some question in the 12ga section got me thinking about 922r compliance. I have an older EAA import without factory threads, and am confident that I'm on safe ground. In fact, I haven't checked into this region of the forum for some (read years) time. In the "old days" I didn't see threaded bbls listed as muzzle devices on this forum, and I'm wondering how they came to be. First off, I think 922r discussions get a little confusing when we don't differentiate between a shotgun's configuration (non sporting vs sporting) and the actual 922r parts compliance. For instance, I could put 20 parts (well, it's actually impossible, but for the sake of argument) on my Saiga import, and as long as the shotgun is considered to be in sporting configuration I'd be legal.... Ok, I'll try not to drift my own thread! Also, this thread pertains only to shotguns with factory threaded barrels. Sporting Configuration So, I see the threaded bbl as having some possible impact on the sporting configuration, but it isn't likely a primary concern. That is, as long as you just keep a bbl nut or choke on the threaded bbl, these don't change the status of an otherwise sporting configured gun. Less certain would be the actual attachment of a device. Can the configuration be changed from sporting to nonsporting by adding?: a. a flash hider b. a muzzle brake If so, this would dictate that parts count must be complied with. If the either/both would be considered to make the gun unsporting, then I'd assume that the shotgun is still sporting until a device is actually installed. Or, possibly if a muzzle device was owned but not installed (so called constructive intent)? Parts Compliance Assume the shotgun is "non sporting". Then, to be compliant no more than 10 of it's parts can be foreign. I'm wondering if their is documentation to count a threaded bbl as a muzzle attachment? Seems pretty cautious? Shouldn't it require actual installation of a muzzle device, or if constructive intent applies here, then the possession of a muzzle device. And what is a muzzle device? I could see where chokes don't change sporting status, but could be considered a device? Same deal with muzzle brakes. Flash suppressors are almost certainly muzzle devices (my opinion). Seems like the collective wisdom on this board feels the threaded bbl = muzzle device ... to me, that's a stretch. I guess I'm wondering where it came from. List of ways change status from sporting to non sporting This isn't as important to this thread, but my understanding is there are several ways a shotgun is considered to become "non sporting" ... I don't have documentation for these, I've just read and accept them. a. Magazine holding >5 round is inserted b. Magazine holding >5 rounds is owned, and no other compliant shotgun is owned (constructive intent) c. Pistol grip is attached. (are there no shotguns imported with pistol grips? .. I haven't kept up on the benelli shotguns) d. Thumbhole stock is attached (I think ATF initially considered thumbholes to be ok, but later considered them to be another form of a pistol grip. e. muzzle attachment (see above, I'm certainly not sure on this one) f. folding stock (?) g. collapsable stock (?) This thread is for entertainment purposes only. No Saiga's were killed in the production of this thread. Past performance is no guarantee of future performance. Consult a physician before engaging brain. May cause uncontrolled fits of shooting. If your time to the range diminishes, discontinue use of the forum immediately, and consult a 2a activist. Shooting has been known to cause $$ to disappear. This thread should not be construed as an offer of employment. I am not a lawyer nor do I play one on tv. Do not try any of this at home.
  13. Just now seeing this post. My limited experience is that Saiga bbls have all of their choke in the last inch or two of the bbl. You might have a pretty open pattern now, so threading for chokes may be a very good idea unless you need an a wide open pattern.
  14. kmoore

    MY TAC 47 T.A.R.G.E.T. Testing

    ok, that's downright funny. I have to admit that I've seen Bridis's name numerous times and always read it as birdis. IIRC he used to have a bird/creature in his avatar so I think my brain saw "bird" in his name. Weird, it's like an optical illusion. And no, I'm not dislecksick. YMMV.
  15. kmoore

    Saiga 12 and birdshot, what's the deal?

    sometimes the ammo manufactures try to scrimp on cost by creating 1 oz loads, these are notoriously unreliable in most autoloaders (unless they've jacked up the speed to compensate, and sometimes even that is bad). These are usually sold as hunting loads (dove?) IIRC. This could be independent of manufacture. Don't remember much more, I just avoid the 1 oz stuff. I did buy some (all that was available and cheap) years ago, and it ran ok in my shotty. I think it was labeled super speed or something like that, seems like the box was mostly white. I believe the speed was over 1300 fps, and maybe even 1400 ish? I believe the extra speed helped compensate for reliability, but I never bought enough to study it much. Oh yea, forgot that used to have issues with blue/PMC field loads (normal speed, normal load). I used to get ~10% fte rate, but had alliance armament work my gun over (I was an early adopter of their drum, they talked me into a free service). Gun came back 100% reliable even with PMC. Actually haven't had any ammo related failures from that time forward I pick up abandoned shells 3 gun matches that include a mixture of all ammo types. That's the only time my gun sees winchester bulk packed ammo, but it doesn't mind.