[Mags for a Black Aces Tactical DTR?]

I just ordered a couple of the mags Black Aces offers.  Not cheap, but nothing is these days.

[Mags for a Black Aces Tactical DTR?]

Much appreciated.  Not what I wanted to hear, but probably something I need to hear.  Just wish I would have checked with you earlier.

[Mags for a Black Aces Tactical DTR?]

So within a few weeks, I expect to have my very own Black Aces Tactical DTR.  For those not familiar, it's a 12 gauge pump that takes Saiga mags, has an 8 1/2" barrel, but because of the way "shotgun" is defined in federal law, is legal without any NFA hoops.

 

I have a Vepr 12, but have never owned a Saiga.  My question is about recommended magazines.  Mostly sticks, but I know at some point I'm going to want a drum (I can't help myself when it comes to that kinda thing).  Any recommendations for max reliability?

 

Thanks in advance.

[SGM Vepr 12 Magazines]

From the pdf file:

 

SGM Tactical has produced a new Gen II magazine with a new spring that is 33% stronger for faster feeding  . . . 

 

 

Is there a way to buy the new spring, for retrofitting to an older magazine?

[25 round Drum for VEPR 12 by SGM Tactical - Coming Soon]

How in the world did I not discover this until today?!!  Come to think of it, maybe that's a good thing, because it spares me having already been anxiously waiting for months.

[Bumpski on a vepr-12]

what happens if you accidently shoot a slug

Nothing good, I imagine.  Not much of a risk in my case, because I don't keep slugs around.  When I want to shoot one big projectile, I use a rifle.

[Bumpski on a vepr-12]

It would be fun to have just for novelty's sake. I think I would prefer one that kept the same narrow vertical spread but was more like 3-4' horizontal.

 

If recall correctly they experimented with them in Vietnam or Korea for clearing bunkers and tunnels, but they did not stick with them. It would be a neat trick to clear a whole plate rack with two shots at a competition, but I think that would last about one event before they threw slugs on the same stage to negate the advantage.

 

 

It must feel a bit like using the shotgun in Doom.

Paradigm claims the design is based on the "duckbill" choke, used by SEALs in Vietnam:

 

 

 

Paradigm SRP’s GATOR is a modern version of the Duckbill shotgun spreader that was used in Vietnam by the US Navy SEALs. The original Duckbill spreader proved to be extremely effective and deadly in close quarter combat environments.   Although very effective, the Duckbill spreader did have a propensity to fracture after extensive use. Paradigm SRP has overcome the Duckbill’s original issues by totally re-engineering, yet still keeping its combat effectiveness.

I'm not vouching for that claim--haven't researched it.

[Bumpski on a vepr-12]

 

Hey Kurt,

I would like to hear more about this spreader choke, how do you like it and were can I find one?

 

 

Haven't had a chance to try it yet, and it will probably be a while,  Health and logistics are likely to keep me away from the range for the immediate future.  You can find the Paradign SRP Gator spreader choke here.

 

 

 

 

My point is largely that other similar designs got similar patterns but the shape of the pattern varied a lot from shell to shell, and there tended to be gaps in the pattern.  a 6 foot wide pattern is useless if only one or two pellets are in the two feet occupied by your attacker. I think most of us can aim better than that, and I would choose 22-27 pellets center mass over 1-4 pellets centermass, and 20+ strays. Even their promo video, which surely cherry picked during editing shows one of the plates near the middle of the rack barely fall. That probably was only one pellet. One pellet in the middle of where there could have been dozens.

 

So if you use that choke, you will need to do a lot of patterning to know what to expect of it. I would not just take the manufacturer's word for it. I also think you will get more dramatic varations from one brand of buckshot to the next than with a more conventional choke. You will also have a lot of handicaps in an HD situation trying to find a clean shot that doesn't endanger non threats. For some competitions it could be useful though.

 

 

Your points are well taken, GunFun--I may very well end up disappointed in it.  I'll just have to see.

[Opinion of the CSS replacement rail?]

Hmm--tempting. I'm not crazy about the plastic rail, myself.

[Bumpski on a vepr-12]

That's a good suggestion, but keep in mind that the spreader choke I have on there creates a 6 foot-wide pattern at a range of 12 yards--that's about 567.7 MOA.  If I can't fight the muzzle rise, though, that should be pretty easy to see.

 

[Bumpski on a vepr-12]

Now gimme a damn drum mag nowwwww

My thoughts exactly.

[Bumpski on a vepr-12]

Video?

Hopefully eventually. Don't know when I'll get to the range. Dealing with some health issues.

[Picture Post, Lets see your Vepr-12]

Here's mine, with Bumpski stock, Mako quad-rail handguard (ordered before I knew about the Chaos, or I would have gone that route), Crimson Trace vertical foregrip with tac-light and green laser, and Paradigm SRP spreader choke:

 

[Bumpski on a vepr-12]

Well, we now know that a Bumpski can be fitted to a Vepr.  Took a bit of doing, though.  The opening at the back of the receiver was a bit too narrow (thicker receiver walls, maybe?), so about 0.015" has to be machined off each side of the Bumpski:

 

 

[Mako RPK quad rail on VEPR, has anyone actually seen it?]

I have one on order, but don't know how soon I'll have an opportunity to attempt the installation.

[Bumpski on a vepr-12]

Is there any concern that the Bumpski's finger rest might not line up properly with a Vepr's trigger? I know Bumpskis work on Saigas (after the Saiga is converted, by having the trigger group moved up). Is the Vepr's trigger location pretty much identical to that of a converted Saiga?

[Tang/No tang effect on length of pull]

WOW! that is a long LOP!

 

That it is. I can't really even reach the the handguard with my left hand, the way it's set up now.

[Tang/No tang effect on length of pull]

Your picture is way too close I can't tell what it is. Please step back further and take another picture of it.

 

The gun is at my sister/brother-in-law's house at the moment, so can't do another pic right now, but thanks for looking.

 

Thats ugly.

 

No argument here.

 

Modify an ace stock block adapter to fit. That will require you to cut your tang. Css makes a buffer tube that mounts right to your gun and doesnt require you to cut the tang. But you will need to modify the buffer tube.. if i remember correctly its to thick. Hope i helped.

 

I think this block is what I would use if I decide on the "tangless" option, but I'm not sure I need to go to that much trouble. I think I could use the standard model Bumpski. The only reason I might choose not to would be if cutting off the tang and going with the "tangless" version saves some length.

 

Thanks, both of you, for being willing to deal with my dumb, newby questions.

[Tang/No tang effect on length of pull]

Just picked up my Vepr-12 Saturday. I plan to put a Bumpski bump fire stock on it--probably because I'm not very bright.

 

The length of pull of the stock the previous owner put on it (he says it's a Magpul) is way too long for me:

 

I suspect the circled portion here is some kind of adapter:

 

Before I order the Bumpski, I have to figure out whether I want the standard model, for guns with a "tang" extending from the rear receiver, or the "tangless" variety, lopping off the tang and using an internal block like this one.

 

I'm not very mechanically comptetent, so I'd prefer to go with the standard model, but my arms are short, and shooting from a wheelchair (as I'll be doing) tends to favor short guns, so if going "tangless" makes for a significantly shorter length of pull, it's probably worth the extra effort to me.

Any guidance?