whatmanual
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Posts posted by whatmanual
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What? No Zombie plinking meadow?
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Yes... started by "He who must not be named".
~S
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Welcome to the club.
~S
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Funny you mention that...
I was just at the gun store yesterday and came across some of those .45 replacement springs (in the baggy types) while looking at other items. Amazingly, they do look very very close to length and strength.
I might just take my springs down there buy a couple of them if they're the same size (what the heck -I do that sort of thing) and swap them out to just to check the action. I suspect they would be weaker though.
I'll have to compare the S12 spring to that of my RPK and AK74. Those would probably be less expensive alternatives though (+sizing/cutting) -IF they have the same specs that is. But, I believe the S12 spring is supposed to be "stronger". Buying factory replacements would be the best course to do anyway. After all, I can't remember the last time I had an "AK" of any caliber having spring issues. Replacing it would be a rare case I think.
Interesting thought though.
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Should go flush *(on mine it does).
You probably got a whole boat load of crap all in the threads. Probably wouldnt be surprised if you have damaged threads too (banging in it etc).
tip:
IF you do manage to get it off and then clean it (considering no damage to the threads), make sure you leave it dry as possible. No, you dont need to keep a layer of CLP on there. In fact, if you do, it will probably just take what would've been residue -and make it cement-like.
Currently, after cleaning thoroughly inside the chamber and the cap, I dry it real well -and then apply a light light coat of Gunslick graphite (small tube that is like a black cream). Since its graphite and only on the threads a little, it helps future removal.
You want to stay away from the kinds of grease that have "ball bearing" type components to it.... that can deteriorate your threads with all the friction.
On really tough removals, I've used the "wrench" that comes with the gun (for the end cap) and placed it along both slots. I almost had to grip it with pliers to get extra leverage but didn't have to.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Just to share an experience I had a few months ago....take it for what it's worth.
This is BEFORE cleaning on that fateful day (Thankfully, this was on my 1st S12..not my Tromix...which is flawless. That's when I learned the "dry is better" (much better). I had fired about 150 shells that day on the range after a perfect cleaning (clank clank).
Haven't had any issues even remotely like this ever since going very dry and graphite (not CLP) on the threads only.
Now days, its perfectly clean and it looks more like powder chips at best after shooting. Havent had issues with any removal since then. Especially after using Federal or Remmington ammo. They use good powder in my opinion.
(also keep in mind, this was only an extremely light coating of CLP and blotted dry...and after firing Winchester ammo. After further tests, I have to say I don't like their game loads at all...buck shot isnt so bad, but overall, the powder sucks~!)
Don't let the pics shock you. But just imagine that is what you're trying to twist off right now (let alone what is on the inside groove and around the piston).
After 1 hour of a wire and bristle brush, its was new (and shiny) again.
~S
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The "gas tube" I think you need a press to remove it...its like permanently on there. One of our local gunsmiths on the forum will know all those details.
For the most part, I'd just as well leave it on there (since if I "did" manage to get it off, odds are I would be contacting a gunsmith to get it back on there again).
Just clean it the same way you wouldve if you removed it.
Dental pick sounds like an interesting tool to have in the kit. Should have the proper angle and everything (or I'll bend it even more).
Pipe cleaners would work just as well though.
~S
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In an end of the world scenario...
which are you more likely to find/trade for?
boxes of 12 gauge or .410 ?
.22 caliber /.223 / .308 / and 9mm ....vs.... 7mm / 10mm / .38 caliber and so forth.
I think you can realize the more common rounds out there and its an investment to have some of those types in your inventory. Of course, much of this is geographic. You might be in a heavy 7.62x39 region. Etc etc.
Nothing wrong with a 20 gauge or whatever.... but certainly something to consider when you look at replenishing supplies.
Lastly, a simple litmus test. SHTF... OH SHIT.... You head to the safe/closet/whatever ....GRAB~!! ... which one would you choose?
(of course for sake of example, rule out the "whatever I grabbed 1st will be enough" answers. We all know "something" is better than nothing).
~S
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Just a tip... up to you.
On my spare S12 I grew tired of jamming that "standard" bristle brush in there and getting that crud our of there.
Now for the piston area, I just use a cordless power drill, 12ga. bore brush on a single extension rod, and CLP.
Then a good rag. No real hard pressure required (dont want to bend the bristles).
Essentially, you're "honing" all that crap if it accumulates. Let the tool to the work.
(I prefer stiff plastic bristles instead of brass brush. No scratches and wont bend.
Then go back with your "standard" brush and cram it down to poke at the gas ports. Clean as a whistle now.
Knocks the crap out of the wad/powder residue in that piston area if it cakes/spreads/melts on there
Real clean = easy to hear "clank clank" when bolt is to the rear and giving the piston a forward/backward shake.
(of course, 20 rounds into the next session it not going to clank as easy....but it will still operate perfectly. This is just a tip for that "melted plastic" all over the chamber there).
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Easy to find... Walmart even has it I believe...
Simple google search: Bore snake
http://www.gunaccessories.com/BoreSnake/default.asp
tip: "machine" washable can also mean the dishwasher
. Less problem with it getting tangled everywhere If your going to use CLP or whatever, place a few squirts around the bristle part of the snake -not the fuzzy part (less mess and works great).
~S
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Don't confuse scratched up with "skid marks".
Regardless of slugs or not, there's still a "wad" there.
Anyway....best tip I have on that is to own a "Bore Snake"....best investment I've made for a barrel cleaning yet. Compare before and after you pull it through there.
I think you'll find it shows the truth on what is or isnt scratched.
~S
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All those #4 bird shot rounds should have no effect at all when it was set at the "2" position....you'll be fine.
Rule of thumb:
All buck and slugs = 1
All bird/game/skeet etc = 2
I personally dont use rounds higher than #7 bird.... (that's a "2" setting). Just a personal preference there. Most my "shot" is simply #6 game, or #4 game (Federal is my wally world preference for most cannon-fodder rounds. I regularly have 200+ rounds of Federal 00 buck though and shoot that regularly. Trial and error on the rounds. Each gun seems to have its own appetite on what it likes. There's another thread on the types of rounds trial and error. A lot of insight there from a few of us.
I also found that (depending on brand) that the "heavier" types of "shot" (game loads....not bird/skeet) like #2 through #4 can cycle ok on a setting 1. This can/usually because of a few things:
the shotgun is broken in a bit
the shot is heavier =gives better pressure from powder load
and simply when the piston/gas area is very clean (and you're not switching to light rounds after shooting off 200 or so when it could be fouled up some).
But hey, you might get lucky and have one that cycles #9 bird on setting 1 all the time (I would imagine it'd be very brand specific though).
Lastly... 3" magnums. Up to you, I personally dont like the feeding/jamming risk unless its on a 5 rounder. But all thats covered in another thread anyway.
"You're mileage may vary" is a good rule of thumb until you learn your new weapon.
Semper Fi,
~S
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Essentially do this:
Push in the button and take that end cap ALL THE WAY OFF......
...look at it....
Position "1" when you annotate it in your hand (picturing how it looks in relation to the gas port) that it allows much LESS gas. So, if your shooting Heavier loads (buck/slugs) then this one is best
Position "2" when you annotate it, you will see that its much MORE gas. This one is better for the bird and other game loads....do NOT use this setting for buck and slugs on a continual or "regular" basis for powerful rounds.
**If you are lucky, or the weapon breaks in and loosens up a bit, you can sometimes get bird/game loads to actually cycle reliably on the "1" setting...if so -AWESOME. Why change the setting after that if theres no cycle issue? Coolness. However, time will tell for that.
Ok.... screw it in, just like a jar lid (clock-wise). Screw it in ALL THE WAY IN.
Many people forget this part....just remember that it works best all the way in...or 1 thread cycle out or so....no more than that.
OK....so its in all the way. Now just back it out to the 1st click you can get. If thats a "1" then so be it. If its a "2" and you want a "1", just go out one more click to that setting -and remember that if you need a "2" that your thread alignment means you go IN to that "2" setting.
If your closest setting is a "1" then its even easier...... unscrew to the "2".... screw in back to the "1".
Just dont constantly click out for 2....out again for 1....out "yet again" to get back to 2...out even yet again to "1" and so forth..... NO.
Semper Fi,
~S
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LOL.... my dad sent me this one just now. Had to post it.
(he saw my "when the zombies come -what's in you're closet" t-shirts and got a kick out of them).
~S
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Personally, I'd proably have more fun with "flare" 12 gauge rounds (IF they have enough to cycle the action on the S12 that is -otherwise oh well).
It'd be like a nice roman candle for a signal or whatever (please shoot "up").
~S
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I went out today and put 75 rnds of Federal 6 shot thru my AGP mags. Mags worked fine, I must have a picky gun. Got a lot of failures to extract. Some looked as if the bolt never moved. Is it a gas problem? I cleaned it B4 shooting and put the piston back in dry, correct?
Sounds like perhaps setting "1" (should be on setting "2" for those in most cases -unless really broken in, or you're lucky).
Ok...so you took off both parts (that end cap and popped out that piston as well) correct?
Check and clean the gas ports to the barrel. Use a good brush for it. I personally leave it as dry as possible after cleaning with CLP. You dont need to be making mud in there that will turn as hard as ceramic.
If you can visually inspect and see the ports to be clear, and then you can see the "bristles" poke through slightly into the barrel when you press down into them it should be fine. The "real" test for me (and others) is when you put the piston back in, and then screw the cap back on (should go real smooth with fingers. Leave the bolt group out and rock forward and then backwards.....you should hear it "clank clank" back and forth with what feels like no resistance. To me, thats a clean piston.
Its been stated before, be sure you press in that button and thread the selector cap all the way you can go = then back it out to the setting you need. People have a habit of clicking it out for each setting change -but never back "in".
If yours is a very new gun, I would suggest 50 rounds of buck to loosen things up just a little (on "1" setting), and then switch to the "2" setting for those #6 lead shot (Game loads...or Heavy Field loads from Federal).
Anyway....sounds like you had it right. I suspect not clean "enough", or not broken in just yet. Took me about 200 with my 1st Saiga (stock). The Tromix was probably 50 to get a good feel on how it would react.
~S
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Follow-up:
As for the Nobel Sport... I'm going to "tune" a couple of my 10 round mags (heck, Ive got quite a few of them) to angle a little higher and retest those rounds more. Whether that means taking a fraction off the back of the mag itself (where the release catches it) -which would mean the mag tilts the angle that fraction it needs. Or I might try to dremmel those inside guides out inside that mag on the sides a bit and "slight" trim to the clip itself to angle more.
Those particular rounds impact on the lower part of the breach and "deform" from being slammed forward. If that resolves it, then I might shoot them again....still, not too confident at all with leaving them a 10 rounder loaded on the shotgun (but if I am successgful with tuning a couple mags, they might make decent secondary magazine changes.
Its a tough call really.... Essentially you have to look at the root cause: The round design (end cap) or the magazine fit (angles and smooth feed). You have to find both sweet spots. Once you do, you're set.
Range time might not be cheap....but it will save your life some day (if you apply what you learn).
Semper Fi,
~S
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A couple things....
For those that don't know: The magazine is not an impromtu grip. The rear latch when it clicks in allows for a "little" play in there...but it should rest downward against the latch.
Bascially, its all about the feed angle, and free movement.
The AGP 10 rounders are fine, but you should keep a few things in mind.
If you bind a round in that mag, make note of it. Odds are you might have to "tune" it a little. As mentioned elsewhere, its a matter of smoothing those guides inside a little, or perhaps ever so slightly grinding the feed clip angle to allow more rise.
Remember...you can take off but can't put back in most cases (although you could always ask for more feed clips if you go past your tolerance while tuning it).
Furthermore, this becomes even MORE important (just my opinion) when you have 3 inch shells in there....its closer to the breach when its pushed out. Less time to get it right on the weapon cycle. Food for thought.
(personally, 2 3/4 is ideal on 10 rounders. 3" shells I reserve for the 5 rounders =Its just where I place my trust for "mostly" reliable loading on that length.
As for rounds:
If you leave a full magazine with "plastic" shell types in there and loaded (ESPECIALLY 10 rounders) you will probably deform a little bit. Its almost a guarantee with a 10 rounder if you leave it for a few days. If you have slugs on top its not so bad -mainly because the shell itself has a lot of support from within the shell (keypoint....birdshot is "mushy" in comparison to solid rounds or even 00 buck).
Types of ammo:
Range time I've used mostly Federal ammunition.
I prefer the Federal premium Vital Shok 2 3/4 00buck. Reliable so far without any issue.
Ive shot countless boxes of Winchester 2 3/4 00buck (9 pellet -15 round box). My impression is mixed. Although it cycles ok, Ive had jams on my stock saiga feeding from the 10 rounders. Furthermore, Winchester power in general sucks in my opinion. It simply doesnt burn clean. No way Im convinced otherwise. Ive run 100 rounds Federal and cleaned it (no issues with removing piston cap). Not too bad overall. Ive then fired 100 rounds of the Winchester...horrible trying to remove the cap -let alone the piston. Ugh...boatloads of crap all inside the piston chamber caked on there...and thick too.
Ive also fired 20 boxes of Nobel Sport buck shot (10 round boxes). 2 3/4 00buck 12 pellet. All I can say is that although they fire ok, I do not like the "clear" plastic shells at all. I've had FTL (fail to load) several times with those. The "end cap" crimps itself on the lower part of the breach while pushing forward a lot. This is an important point to remember....its not the same kind of closure up front -and its still plastic (with no shot to support the cap itself if you look -thats why). If left in a mag and loaded for a period of time, they can tend to be slightly "egg" shaped.
However, loading at the range and simply shooting them off is much more successful....but still, not something I would store in the gun for any SHTF. simple as that.
As for simple range blasting on setting 2 (or even setting one once it breaks in).
I dont mind the Federal 2 3/4 #6 "game shock" (game load) for about $4.50 for a box of 25....(not the "hi brass lead" type -about $8 for a box of 25). I find this round cycles just fine.
Ive shot the Federal 7 and 9 "birdshot"....creampuff rounds and Ive had a few "stove pipes" using those lighter rounds -even on setting 2. (again for those who don't know...a stove pipe is where you fire the shot and during the eject the shell jams facing outward where the bolt goes forward....thus looks like a stove pipe just smoking away). ANYWAY, my simple theory is this: the heavier shot = more force required behind it to push it out. Those lighter loads past a #6 just move too easily to provide enough pressure to cycle the weapon (**Remember, this isnt a PUMP. We need that gas pressure).
Remmington,
Cannot say enough praise for shot to shot consistency. Powder burns real well and after 100 shots -I can STILL hear that piston "click clock" back and forth. No way I can say that for any Winchester product.
In short: Federal for Buck. Federal or Remmington using heavier grade #4-6 (lead) game loads for blasting. If using a #2 through #4 lead shot (not buck....just game shot), you can probably leave it on the "1" setting. (again, my theory about heavier shot and compression for the round vs. lighter crap).
Well...food for thought.
Oh yeah: slugs.
Remmington slugger. Its less expensive compared to Winchester and by far is a better product for shape, charge, and shell support.
Ive tried a few wally world brands for slugs and even some of the more expensive stuff.
Regular hollowpoint Remmington Sluggers will do just fine. In fact, my tightest group using JUST the open "Krebs" sights on my Tromix was using Remmington "buckhammer" slugs (more expensive but damn they are powerful/fast rounds)... 5 shots -and 4 were in a 4 inch group offhand at 25 yards center mass (I jerked one left a little off center -oh well).
Lastly: Sabot
Yeah I shot them. Although they make every head on the indoor range turn to you with fear (extreme loud boom and NICE NICE flash that lights up the line in comparison to other rounds)....well, no, dont bother with the expensive rounds that serve no purpose in an open cylinder. And you all should know that you NEVER shoot those through chokes right? Stay alive and save the wallet...stick to normal slugs and "shot".
Hope it helps someone.
Semper Fi,
~S
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lol
but I should correct...I was thinking of my #4 lead or #6 (Federal Game Shock = "game load" and not technically bird).
As for any would be intruder even having the ability to get up from several close range shots like that?
Well, no need to bother with butt of the shotgun for me (rather keep the gun pointed down range at all times if at all possible anyway).
Fringe benefit of Tony's custom Shark Brake of course: don't need a bayonet.
Honestly...nobody wants to see ANY sort of round come out of this within the close proximity of a room -let alone buck rounds being a mere .75 seconds behind them (3rd round down).
And before "they" pry it from my cold dead fingers (as they say)....They'll probably have to pry this out first.
Tromix...this aint your daddy's shotgun. And if it is, best mind what he says~!
~S
Tony...Thank you very much for the work you did on mine. Flawless buddy...flawless!
Semper Fi.
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Cheney shot him from 30 yards away...according to the official report that is. Huge difference for bird shot (let alone "pattern" percentage).
Also, quoting minimum standards is an injustice if you don't consider the other factors involved....like penetration at a given range. The need things that can go through your car door from across the street with some effectiveness....or do enough damage when it gets there. A .32 caliber 00 shot does this nicely from those sorts of ranges -and at close range it will probably knock an opponent 3 feet back to a suitable spot for dying. Its probably why most entryways are tiled in my opinion.
Those who doubt birdshot against an unarmored opponent:
Feel free to shoot a washing machine/car door or similar from 15 feet away with bird shot (#4 or #6 is just fine). Im not out west in Nevada anymore -else I would. Please post the pics if you do
In any case, 4 inches at close range x1 1/4oz. shot (thats a lot of 4 inch penetrations) is effective enough for me "within" the confines of home defense. Would I bet my life on it? Of course. Would I use it versus.... "armored" opponents? Probably not....only the naive would. Either way...my rule of thumb is past 25 yards or so is what I consider "peppering range" for bird shot. Have that buck/slug magazine ready!
Side note:
Although I load almost 00 buck exclusively, some people have to consider adjacent rooms and neighbors (apartments). OVER penetration can be a factor. Drywall isnt all that thick.
~S
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Search the forums here -not google- for that term
hehehe
~S
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Welcome to the forum Jaak
*all in good fun of course*
Look forward to seeing the finished conversion.
On a side note: The shark brake is kick ass. It not only a door breacher (and semi-bayonet if zombies really insist), but its ported to compensate the muzzle climb, AND if you look at the venting it assists with actually lessening the recoil (has a forward compensation).
I own two S12 guns. Compared to a stock barrel, you can notice the difference.
Of course, if you want to use chokes...I think Poly Choke is the best out there (from all I've read anyway).
~S
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I don't see it either...
No "attachment" symbol at the forum title listing either.
~S
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By the way....
you CAN change those mounts to the weaver.
Check out the accessories for the Kobra sights.
In particular:
Weaver Mount Adapter
http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/detail.aspx?ID=525
Cheers,
~S
Brass shotshells
in Saiga-12
Posted
For those reloaders out there to consider....
http://www.magtechammunition.com/sitepages...;search=details
(google for: Magtech and search the products for brass shells -12 gauge or whatever).
Might be an alternative for the steel Russian ones I keep reading about. I'm probably going to buy a reloading kit in the near future, so I was just poking around and found those. Not sure how those would "crimp" (seal up). Probably some sort of end cap like S&B has or something.
If I get all that together this month or next, perhaps I'll write a report how they hold up and store in a full load mag etc.
Obviously not something to go plinking with every day.....but certainly something to have for a top round for the mags that stay at home
Probably not cost effective to make them or sell them (let alone shipping live ammunition and the headaches with any "unknown laws" that may arise).
But its food for thought for our reloading community out there.
~S