sudaevpps43
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Posts posted by sudaevpps43
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This gun is intended for the express purpose of door breaching and is NOT select-fire. We did provide them with select fire demos in the past but they know (as we do) that it's not a very practical LE gun.
My understanding is that only the front man has the breaching gun, and once in, he swings it over his shoulder in favor of the MP5.
That safety was a ton of work but boy does it function perfectly. Snaps back and forth just like an AR. Maybe even crisper. If it becomes an option, it will be expensive.
They specifically requested the Kross rail! I suppose they are going to mount lights on it. And of course the VFG is critical for a gun without a stock.
Very interesting info Bob, thanks for sharing. Expensive or not I still hope Tony does offers that AR style safety as an option at some point down the road. I would definitely be willing to save up the money to have Tony install one in my Saiga 12.
So if the FBI wants a AOW, they just get one, or is there some special paper work involved? The AR safety is the shizzy!
If I remember right law enforcement agencies do transfers of Title II (NFA) firearms using a Form 5, which like a Form 3 is a tax exempt NFA transfer form.
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Although they have a few Tromix entry guns already, they've requested a new model with some interesting design changes.
Very interesting Bob. It's got no stock so the FBI must be planning to use it for some very specialized role. I wonder if they intend to use it as a specialty door breaching weapon, or for something else. Oh and do you happen to know if that AR style safety is just a one-time thing Tony is doing only for this particular Saiga 12, or if it is an option Tony also plans to offer in the future on his regular Saiga 12 conversions?
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I wrote:
Hi Does this come with a velcro strap? http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-363/AK47-Saiga-Orignal-Recoil/Detail is this same Krinkov recoil pad as one attached? Cant tell by the pic thanks
Greg Queen wrote:
It is a little different. It does not come with a strap.
Greg Queen
Carolina Shooters Supply Inc.
P.O.Box 940
Lugoff SC 29078
(843)267-9084
www.CarolinaShootersSupply.com
I didn't bother to ask him for futher details, because I needed one with a velcro. Besides I shot my friends S12 as I mentioned and it works really well. I was just wondering if CSS had it for less, but I guess they are different.
Okay I see now, Greg just meant the only difference is that his doesn't come with the velcro strap (I had thought he maybe meant there might be some difference in the material, or the manufacturing method, or something else).
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he is talking about a different recoil pad altogether, I believe. It looks similar.My link
I saw that one too, when I asked Greg if it was same as http://www.fseusa.com/product_info.php?cPath=95&products_id=339 he said its not, my friend has one thats pictured in the link, I shot it and it much better than with out it. While I havent tried the limb saver so I cant compare between the two.
They sure look the same to me. Did Greg happen to say what the difference was between them?
By the way for those who might be wondering, this slip on recoil pad design comes from Russia, for use by the Russian army on AK rifles with the Russian under-barrel mounted grenade launchers, like this configuration:
he is talking about a different recoil pad altogether, I believe. It looks similar.My link
Thats the one i have and it is terrible for recoil reduction.
I have one of those too, and while I agree it doesn't actually reduce the recoil force much (if at all), for me at least it did definitely make shooting my Saiga 12 much more comfortable. I had done a basis conversion on my Saiga 12 and had a standard AK-rifle buttstock on it (like the type on the 7.62x39 & 5.45x39 AKs), and before I put one of those slip-on recoil pads on it, I couldn't shoot more than about 100 rounds of even low-base birdshot shells before my shoulder just got too sore to shoot. After I put one of those pads on the buttstock though, I could then shoot several hundred rounds of any type of shell (including high-base 2-3/4" or 3" magnums) in one sitting without my shoulder getting sore at all. Everyone else's mileage may vary I'm sure, but the slip-on pad worked just great for me.
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Lack of crime in Idaho has nothing to do with whats wrong with the work you guys do. What I find unacceptable is the amount of power you guys have and its potential for abuse. Simple as that.
And thus the need to hold them to a higher level of behavior.
Using whatever tools are needed, be it Internal Affairs, or a Civilian Review Board, etc.
You have a warped sence of priority. Regardless of the state, I want to see cop shops dismantled and reformed with less capabilities. There is no need for a para-military force oporating in this country that has the ability to:
1: smash dissent
2: monitor citizen behavior
3: enforce what people put in their bodies..............
Bigsal,
I couldn't agree with you more with regards to our country's so called drug war, a monumental act of human stupidity that for going on four decades now has not only proven to be a complete and utter failure, but which also pointlessly wastes tens of billions of dollars every year (our tax money effectively just being thrown onto a bonfire), and worst of all it also spawned even more laws in its wake that further eroded human rights in this country. Virtually every law that placed restrictions or outright bans on firearms in this country were passed after the drug war got up to speed in the late 60s and early 70s, and practically all of these laws were passed in the name of fighting the very drug crime (specifically drug dealers killing each other and the bystanders caught in their crossfire) that was virtually non-existent before the drug war was started.
Now as far as the original topic of this thread goes, I think that you, Dancing Bear, and Georgia PD are really just talking about two different ends of the same issue, where they are talking about the micro end of things, while you are talking about the macro end. On the micro side of it I agree with Dancing Bear and Georgia PD's point that law enforcement, like with any other profession (be it medicine, law, politics, whatever), will inevitably get some bad apples in it from time to time, and that said bad apples can only be dealt with by effort being put forth both by members of the law enforcement profession and the citizenry at large. On the macro end of things I also definitely agree with your point about how existing laws (most obviously, though certainly not limited to, the drug war) are effectively creating an environment that is slowly turning law enforcement in this country away from the peace officer organizations they were prior to the drug war, and into paramilitary (in the name of fighting the drug war more effectively) and revenue collecting (in the name of funding the drug war) agencies, which of course also creates an environment within some law enforcement agencies that tends to both attract and tolerate people who just shouldn't be in the profession to begin with.
Unfortunately I don't see any near term solution to any of this. Law enforcement agencies are stuck enforcing the laws the politicians pass no matter how idiotic some of those laws are (not to beat a dead horse, but again as a specific example the drug war and the numerous laws passed to support the drug war that effectively allowed for invasion of privacy and unjustified search & seizures, not to mention the numerous laws that pointlessly restrict or ban firearms). I also think that these useless, BS, 'moral-majority' laws like drug prohibition, just by their very existence, have a corrosive effect on law enforcement no matter how fairly and rationally law enforcement tries to enforce such laws (just look at the corrupting effect segregation laws in the south had on southern police departments until those laws were repealed in the late 1960s). This problem can really only be countered by repealing drug prohibition, but unfortunately I sure as hell don't see the drug war ending anytime soon.
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I remember a while back there was a guy selling some homemade metal mags...I believe his user name was ccspecs. Does anyone know if he is still selling them? I bought a couple and love them! Any info is greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
-Matt
His forum member name is actually csspecs (not ccspecs), and yes he's still selling them. He's even got a website now ( http://csspecs.com/ ) that you can buy the mags through.
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.........The ATF have been very helpful...........
I wonder if hell has frozen over and pigs have started to fly too
? Sorry gunfighteruk, to a brit that probably sounds non-sequitur, it's just that the words "ATF" and "helpful" in the same sentence is something us yanks don't see very often (especially on this forum). Glad to hear a few Vepr 12s will finally get into the U.S. though, even if it is only temporarily for a shotgun match. Hopefully some forum members will be at that match and post some pictures for the rest of us. -
Check out center fire system.
Okay I see, so apparently there are two variations of this buttstock, one specific to the PSL and its unique rear receiver profile (and these are the versions that centerfire has and which I've seen occasionally on Gunbroker), and another variation for Saigas and other AK type longarms which have a regular AK rear receiver profile. I did a web search, but so far I haven't been able to find the second variation available anywhere, though I assume they will be available at some point later on this year, since RAAC firearms will be using them for the Saiga 12 variation shown in that NutnFancy video from SHOT Show 2010.
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Does anyone make & sell a replacement stock for a .308 Saiga that looks just like the PSL Stock? I really like the sleek good looking lines of the PSL stock. I am having a Conversion done on my Saiga 308 but would prefer a PSL type stock. Also a much Longer stock would be nice,the one that came with my PSL rifle is way too short. Also a Black Plastic PSL type stock would be great for me too. Thanks in advance for any helpful replys.
A new polymer SVD style stock that is telescope adjustable for length has recently become available, which will work with any AK pattern longarm (including Saiga rifles or shotguns) that has a fixed stock style receiver with the trigger group in the normal AK location (i.e. a normal fixed stock AK style rifle or a converted Saiga, this buttstock will not work with a stock Saiga that still has its trigger group at the back of the receiver). This buttstock is pretty new and I haven't found any vendor that is even carrying it yet, though they are currently showing up on Gunbroker from time to time.
(Edited to add: There are apparently two variations of this buttstock. One for PSL rifles which have a unique rear receiver profile different from the usual AK/Saiga rear receiver profile, while a second variation of this buttstock is for AK & Saiga longarms that have the standard AK rear receiver profile. The variant for PSL rifles is available, but so far I haven't been able to find the AK/Saiga variant available anywhere yet.)
Edited to add: The two pictures below are of the PSL variation of this buttstock.
Edited to add: The two pictures below are of the AK/Saiga variation of this buttstock attached to some converted Saiga 12s (courtesy of RAAC firearms and NutnFancy's SHOT Show 2010 Saiga Rifle & Shotgun video on Youtube)
Note that this buttstock is different from the fixed length, and telescoping adjustable length, polymer SVD style buttstocks that are for stock Saiga rifles and shotguns that have not had their trigger groups moved forward (i.e. unconverted), which are these buttstock below.
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Hi everyone, first time saiga 12 owner here. I took it out to the range for the first time yesterday. I left the gas selector on "1" and the shotgun cycled both slugs and bird shot perfectly. When I took it apart to do a light cleaning, I noticed that the gas selector was difficult to take off (needed to use a screw driver) whereas it was easy to take off before I ever fired any rounds through the gun. After I was able to unscrew it, I turned the gun over and a lot of what seemed like unburned powder fell out (looks like something came through the port holes). I know it wasn't metal shavings because it wasn't magnetic. Also it looks like the threads had gotten a little crudded up with powder on the gas selector.
Is this normal?
I haven't had a chance to fully break it down and look at the gas tube yet.
Thanks!!
The gas plug (gas selector) is in the gas block right where gas gets vented from the barrel to drive the piston, and it will of course get some gas residue build up on its threads, so yes what you are describing is definitely perfectly normal.
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I read through the manual and decided to start mine out on setting #2 for anything in a 2 3/4" shell and #1 for 3". Since it mentioned to use setting #2 for 70mm shells and #1 for 76mm... best I can remember. However, I also have a 4 port gun, and while I shot mostly birdshot.. I think some of the buck I put through it beat it up a little. I have an imprint on my rear trunnion from the carrier. No damage or anything, but I got one of Gunfixer's plugs to tame some of the overgassing, and it seems to run a little better.
With a 4 port gun, it seems like everything cycles on setting 1. After an extremely short break in period I haven't changed gas settings at all.
It was the same case with my Saiga 12 which is also a factory 4-port gun (mine was made in 2008 and is a 19" barreled IZ-109 variant). I moved the trigger group forward and installed a pistol grip and regular AK type buttstock on it, but I didn't do any mods to it to improve its cycling ability because there just wasn't any need to. After I had broken it in a bit by shooting a couple hundred rounds of various ammo types through it, it then cycled everything (including low base 2-3/4" ammo) with no problem with the factory gas plug set to 1. My Saiga 12 was definitely overgassed as well though, but this was only an issue when shooting high-base or magnum shells, and it was an issue I easily remedied by just getting a Gunfixr gas plug and using its -1 setting when shooting high-base & magnum ammo.
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I have seen several recently on-line, but the only one that I can remember where I saw it is under the topic Picture Post, Lets see your Saiga 12!. It's on page 5, 3/4 down, post #147 posted by skott.
Hope it helps.
Yeah that's a picture of the Saiga 12C conversion that forum member sKott did on his Saiga 12, though he used a Russian side-folding stock and rear trunnion (5.5mm hinge), rather than a Bulgarian side-folding stock and rear trunnion (4.5mm hinge).
Going to do my Saiga12 conversion soon and decided to go with the SLR106 style US made solid folding stock and SAW PG. Looking for reference pics with this setup. TIA
Back in December of 2007 sKott made a post of his whole whole Saiga 12C conversion process.
If you are a member of the AK forum (you have to be a registered user there to read any threads), there is a Saiga 12C conversion thread over there as well, done by forum member Tomovich back in 2006. Interestingly, Tomovich had to fab the side-folding stock retaining catch he used in his Saiga 12C conversion from scratch, since back then getting ahold of a Izhmash made Saiga 12C side-folding stock retaining catch was virtually impossible, and there were no domestic manufacturers making them yet either (and a regular AK rifle side-folding stock retaining catch won't work with a Saiga 12).
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He also banned all chinese ammo, chinese semiauto anything, and chinese hand guns.
Add to that the 1998 high capacity import ban which currently makes it illegal to import a high capacity ready rifle or to use a high capacity mag in the post 1998 rifles, unless of course you follow the 922r parts compliance from the 1968 GCA law. He was working on trying to force all handguns into a national registry but fortunately Congress was no longer a Democrat majority by that time.
Yeah I almost forgot about all those other pointless, useless, BS firearms restrictions Clinton also pushed through while he was in office, though it reminds me of my peronal favorite Clintonism, when he got the ATF to declare that the USAS-12 & Stryker-12/Protecta, which had been around for years, were now suddenly Destructive Devices under the NFA. I heard Clinton even tried to get the ATF to declare that bullpup variation of the Mossberg 500/590 a DD as well, but apparently even the ATF thought trying to declare a pump action 12 gauge as a DD was a bit much. Nicely sums up just how far off the deep end Willy boy went with his anti-self-defense rights scheming, when he reached the point of coming up with BS even the ATF wouldn't go along with.
Hrm well I just guess I figured at the prices I have seen some of the Russian handguns floating around they would be more expensive if they were pre ban. Honestly I guess I thought all "bs" that expired along with the 90s "bans" guess thats pretty shitty, good tid bit of info. Thats what I get for assuming.
Ol Yeltsin must have been hitting the vodka too hard that day, what a dip-shit.
The rumor I heard was Yeltsin believed Russian soldiers (who in the 1990s were lucky if they got paid once every several months) would start stealing and selling off any firearms from army depots that could easily be resold on the legitimate U.S. firearms market (like say Makarovs), since there was then (as now) a big market in the U.S. for authentic Russian made firearms, particularly ones that were rare in the U.S. (like Dragunovs). In fairness to Yeltsin, that probably was a legitimate concern at the time, but Yeltsin definitely made a mistake in agreeing to make the time period of the agreement indefinite. These days Russia's economy has recovered enough that black marketeering by soldiers is (at least in the big picture) a minor problem, and Izhmash could be making even more in the U.S. if they could sell Makarovs and Dragunovs here too, but the Clinton-Yeltsin agreement is still in effect so they can't. Sometimes I've wondered how much money Izhmash misses out on every year due to all the firearms they can't sell in the U.S. because of Yeltsin. However much it is, I doubt Izhmash is happy about it.
If the Russian arm has been out of Russia for 5 years, it can be imported here.
That is where a lot of "Russian" arms come from - other countries where they've been sitting in warehouses.
Oh yeah that's right, I forgot about the 5 year rule if its Russian made arms being surplused from some other country. Someone should buy a warehouse full of Dragunovs from Izhmash, park them in Finland or some other country for 5 years, and then ship them stateside. In the U.S. even at wholesale/distributor prices they would still easily sell for at least twice what it cost to buy them from Izhmash and get them shipped over. A 5-year investment with a 100% profit margin seems like a pretty good deal to me. Too bad these days I'm only making just enough to cover life's four necessities (rent, food, gas, ammo), so it's an investment opportunity I guess I'll have to pass on for now
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The clinton ban wasnt only banning imports from Russia. So I wouldnt think that would apply.
In addition to the so-called AWB Clinton signed into law in 1994 (and which thankfully sunsetted in 2004), sometime during the 1990s (I forget exactly when) Clinton also signed a separate agreement individually with Yeltsin regarding firearms imports from Russia to the U.S., which effectively banned the importation of certain Russian made firearms (including, I'm pretty certain, any handguns made in Russia). This agreement is still in effect and will remain in effect unless some future presidents of both the U.S. and Russia agree to end it (so in other words it will remain in effect forever
).The Clinton-Yeltsin agreement is also why we don't see any new Izhmash made Dragunov pattern rifles (SVD or Tigr) here in the U.S., because the Dragunov was one of the firearms specifically banned by the Clinton-Yeltsin agreement. If I remember right the only Russian made firearms the agreement allows to be imported into the U.S. are all longarms, and specifically only those of the Saiga line, the Vepr line, and some non-self-loading long arms, like the bolt-action LOS line of rifles.
Pulling up the Clinton Arms Export Control Act list of prohibited guns is a migraine headache. Having seen the Baikal Makarov's pop up for sale used now and then, I wouldn't have thought they were discontinued in 1996. Now you got me wondering if spare parts are included among the prohibited items.
I still see Russian military Makarov's popping up from time to time on the U.S. market as well, but both they and the Baikal Makarovs never show up in significant numbers, and they are often sold as being at least slightly used, so I think all the Russian made Makarov's floating around in the U.S. today, are all ones that were imported before the Clinton-Yeltsin agreement took effect. I don't know about spare parts. I know some spare Dragunov parts like Dragunov magazines, bolts, and sights can still be imported, so I suppose it's possible some Makarov spare parts could still be legally imported as well, but definitely not receivers, and probably not barrels either.
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Not a valid link.
Here it is, U.S. Government To Save Billions By Cutting Wasteful Senator Program. Now if only they would cut those wasteful IRS and ATF programs too
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I believe that agreement signed between Clinton and Yeltsin back in the 90s prohibits (among other things) any pistols made in Russia from being imported into the U.S.
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Funny thing is, they are more interested in the conversions than in the class 3......
That's because, and as SinistralRifleman mentioned......
They are interested in enforcing the new manufacturing guidelines from 2008.
......, back in 2008 the ATF figured out that since they collect a manufacturing tax every time a firearm is manufactured, that they could make more money (as legitimate tax revenue of course
) by just changing the definition of what manufacturing is. Its BS, similar to how the city of Washington D.C. decided to change the definition of a machinegun to also include any semi-automatic handgun that held 14 or more rounds, but the ATF is able to get away with it because existing federal laws are so poorly written that they give the ATF ludicrously broad powers for defining all things firearms related. -
Both the main Izhmash corporate office and the Izhmash factory are located in the city of Izhevsk in Russia.
On an ATF NFA form when listing the name and location of the orignal manufacturer of either a Title II (NFA) firearm that is being transferred (Form 4), or the Title I firearm that is being "made" into an Title II (NFA) firearm (Form 1), the ATF only needs the company name and the city and country the company is located in. You could include the province/republic/state and street address if you wanted, but it isn't necessary. My Form 1 for SBS'ing a Saiga 12 was approved by the ATF, and in box 4a I had just put "Izhmash, Izhevsk, Russia".
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All the gun needs is a serial number, even though the serial number isn't on the receiver?
Federal law requires that the serial number be on the receiver (not on the barrel or any other part of the firearm).
The Saiga is legal as imported (with the serial on the trunnion).
Don't separate the trunnion from the receiver or you'll be in the deep doo-doo.
Correct, I should have clarified that, thanks for mentioning it Nalioth. I probably also should clarify that for a Saiga shotgun the ATF considers the trunnion to be part of the receiver, not a separate countable part unto itself. That is why given the same configuration for both (such as a Saiga shotgun and a Saiga rifle both having a pistol grip and a muzzle attachment), the 922r part count on a Saiga shotgun is always one less than the 922r part count on a Saiga rifle. Which reminds me of something I've often wondered about. Both Saiga rifles and Saiga shotguns have their serial number on their trunnion, but unlike with Saiga shotguns, on Saiga rifles the ATF counts the trunnion as a separate part from the receiver (when it comes to the 922r part count), which is something that always seemed inconsistent to me. Then again this is the ATF we're talking about, so I guess there's no point in trying to figure it out.
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so if I wanted to make a 105 clone I could strip essentially everything on the receiver that wasnt original IE saiga, Russian American Arms, made in russia by izhmash and the get it engraved with the correct markings to that of a ak105?
Like Nalioth said, just don't mess with the serial number (make sure the serial number is still legible after the refinishing and any other modifications you do to the receiver). Every other marking is just fine to remove, and any markings you want to add are also okay (as long as they don't obscure the serial number).
All the gun needs is a serial number, even though the serial number isn't on the receiver?
Federal law requires that the serial number be on the receiver (not on the barrel or any other part of the firearm).
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Happy birthday Max and Mrs. Juggernaut, and thanks for this great forum Max!
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No reason at all why the PSL wouldn't be just fine for hunting (though depending on what the laws are in Florida, you may need to track down a 5 round magazine to meet local hunting regs). One minor note, the PSL was designed for firing light ball 7.62x54R ammo (i.e. ammo with bullets weighing 154 grains or less). Heavy ball (174 to 182 grain), or the heavier bullet hunting ammo (180 to 203 grain), is not recommended for use in a stock PSL, because it causes excessive bolt group velocity, so the bolt carrier slams into the rear trunnion too hard, causing excessive wear and tear. If you do want to be able to use heavy ball or the heavier bullet hunting ammo in a PSL, there is some company (I forget the name right now) that makes an adjustable gas block for the PSL, and with that installed then any 7.62x54R ammo can be used.
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I am not a lawyer, but I definitely agree that McDonald vs. Chicago is a huge Supreme Court case with regards to self defense rights. However I'm not ready to break out the champagne bottles just yet, because while the odds look good that the Supreme Court will rule in favor of incorporation (and so apply the Heller decision to the states), depending on what level of scrutiny the court decides to apply the ruling with, the ruling may in fact only put an end to the most severe anti-self defense laws (like outright bans on firearms in general), while leaving all other slightly less severe anti-self defense laws (like waiting periods, mandatory registration, firearms bans based on cosmetic features, etc.) intact. I'm sure our more legally proficient forum members could explain it better, but in a nutshell if the Supreme Court rules in favor of McDonald and incorporates Heller, but doesn't apply the ruling with strict scrutiny, then it will only be a partial victory for self defense rights.
The ideal situation would be that the supreme court rules in favor of incorporation of Heller and applies the ruling with strict scrutiny under the privileges and immunities clause of the 14th Amendment, which in addition to ending outright firearms bans in places like Chicago, would also have a good chance of putting an end to laws banning certain firearm features (i.e. the 'sporting purposes' clause of the 1968 GCA, or bans on pistol grips, folding stocks, magazines above a certain capacity, bayonet lugs, etc.), an end to laws prohibiting people from keeping their firearms in their vehicles when at work, and an end to laws that exist only to make it as difficult as possible to legally possess a firearm (like the permit process that currently exists in D.C.). However, if the Supreme Court instead rules in favor of incorporation applied under a weaker level of scrutiny, like intermediate scrutiny through the due process clause of the 14th Amendment, then laws like firearms features bans, laws banning guns in cars at work, and laws establishing an expensive and time consuming firearms permit process, would likely end up still being considered constitutional and remain in place.
What's possibly even worse about this scenario (aside from just the weaker boost it would give to self-defense rights) is that the Supreme Court, which currently leans conservative, will have missed their (likely only) chance to put some practical conservative boundaries on future Supreme court rulings in cases where the privileges or immunities clause of the 14th Amendment may come up. This means a future Supreme Court, which would be more likely to lean liberal (since at least some conservative justices are likely to retire within the next decade, and so likely be replaced by more liberal justices under the Obama administration), would be unconstrained by any previous Supreme Court ruling on the privileges or immunities clause under the 14th amendment. So a future liberal Supreme Court would be free to potentially make very liberal rulings on cases that might involve the privileges or immunities clause under the 14th Amendment, such as cases on abortion or national healthcare (to name just a few).
I'm not trying to be a downer, and the odds are good that the Supreme Court will rule in favor of McDonald and incorporate Heller to the states, but unfortunately the court will likely do it with a weaker level of scrutiny than strict scrutiny. So while the McDonald vs. Chicago ruling will very likely result in the repealing of outright firearms bans in the U.S., it unfortunately isn't likely to result in any other slightly less severe anti-self defense laws being struck down.
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Yugo M57 (tokarev)
in General Discussion - Any topic is welcome here!!!
Posted · Edited by Frogfoot
Out of curiosity, how can an 8 round CZ52 mag be modified to work in a Yugo Tokarev which uses taller 9 round mags? Wouldn't that be like trying to use a Glock 19 mag in a Glock 17? Even if you dremeled a magazine catch slot in the side of the CZ52 mag, wouldn't the mag still be too short for the slot to reach the magazine release button/catch?