my762buzz
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Posts posted by my762buzz
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SO the threads are 24x1mm correct? I'm assuming its non too safe to use the 5.45 brakes on them. Do they make 7.62x39 brakes/flash hiders in 24mm?
Yes 24mm.
http://www.k-var.com/shop/product.php?productid=16986&cat=344&page=1
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Any chance that they come over as 10rd single stack rifles and are converted to double stack by Arsenal with the appropriate 922r compliance parts.
I can't find any welded linkage pin holes on mine so I am going to propose a basic hypothesis.
They might be arriving in some variation with the trigger forward already.
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Keep in mind with your suggestion you'd still need to swap parts for 922r. Fcg is an cheap and easy 3 parts. With the fcg, the stock, and the handguard already in place, what parts would u switch out. You'd basically be forced to use US mags
Yes a tapco or other trigger group, a US made rear stock replacement, a US made pistol grip, etc...that would be 5 for 5 which is all you need unless you option for filing off the muzzle cap weld which could also require a US made muzzle device in such an event. Then it would be 6 for 6.
The trigger forward set up would be marketed exclusively to those that want to convert.
The bullet guide import issue is about the only possible sticking point but since I keep reading once in a while that Arsenal is somehow importing them with a bullet guide then maybe it really is not a sticking point at all. The lack of welded up holes (no visible seams) on an SGL 21 I own makes me doubt that Arsenal does any welding on these which would indicate that they might be getting them without a rearward trigger guard and parts. Your right though about how some will not like the trigger forward setup. However, there are already plenty of them imported with the trigger rearward and so a few imported with it forward will serve a different crowd.
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It has taken several years to get the Russians to offer the IZ132 Model 2 it is doubtfull that we will see them make more changes at this time . The bullet guide idea will never fly because of the import restrictions despite your file the mag catch suggestion. We are happy to have the upgraded model that just arrived after years of discussions .
I guess your right. What was I thinking? I could just get an SGL21 and not have to worry about those issues. It's also amazing that the Russians refuse to offer dimpled receiver rifles to Atlantic Firearms maybe a few more years of discussions will allow that.
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Yes they are more expensive than the basic IZ 132 but only about half of what it would cost in parts & paying a gunsmith to do the work plus all of this work is Factory installed .
Well I thought long on this and I think it can legally be done so here is an idea to really make many potential buyers happy.
Get the next shipment imported with dimples, a bullet guide installed at the factory, and the trigger guard/group already in the forward position.
The dimples will always make these even more appealing and I doubt it will cost anymore to specify the factory for dimpled receivers.
A bullet guide preinstalled at the factory should have absolutely no import problems because the rifle will still not accept surplus military mags without filing the mag latch, but it will ultimately make the end users very happy about not having to drill and tap the trunnion to install one which is a pain in the ass considering how tough the russian steel is.
The trigger guard and trigger group already in the forward normal position will also make things easier, and since the sporter stock is readily importable this should not cause any import problems. Now, someone might say that the forward trigger position will not be so great for the sporter stock, well most people that are going to buy these are going to rebuild them into something closer to what an sgl21 looks like so they really won't care if the sporter stock and trigger forward position will not work together anyhow.
The big plus here too is no need to drill out trigger linkage pins because the trigger is already in the right place.
By doing all these changes, a full legal end user conversion will be reduced to filing the mag latch lever to properly fit surplus mags and exchanging enough applicable parts for compliance parts. A retarded kid with a steel file and a box of conversion parts could convert a rifle in 30 minutes or less.
I don't even think you will be able to meet the market demand fast enough for a sub $500 retail rifle as described.
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I saw these on another forum. They are certainly worth the extra $100 dollars. I wish they had a regular FSB with a muzzle nut that way people could use a slant brake if they wanted
They do have regular muzzle threading. 24mm has been the standard since the 1970s
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Of course they do not have a bayonet lug they could not be legally imported with Lugs.
Do these have stepped chambers like regular saigas or non-stepped like the Arsenal SGl21s?
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But they do look pretty awesome and would significantly cut down on restoration effort and cost!
This is how they should have been imported all along. Its about time.
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Do these have stepped chambers like regular saigas or non-stepped like the Arsenal SGl21s?
For several years we have been working on getting in a better version of the basic Russian IZ132 Saiga rifles for our customer and conversions. Below is the Saiga 100 Series IZ132 Model 2 that features >>>>>
Russian Installed Gas Tube
Russian Installed Gas Block
Russian Installed Hand Guards
Russian Installed AK74 Front sight & 24 mm threads
They are imported with a thread protector welded on but can be removed during conversion.
Yes they are more expensive than the basic IZ 132 but only about half of what it would cost in parts & paying a gunsmith to do the work plus all of this work is Factory installed .
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Anyway, what are your thoughts on the weapon in the role of home defense? Wall penetration, over penetration hazards, under penetration(?), etc...
Thanks,
Ken
Yes but I would limit my ammo choices to avoid over penetration.
Hornady ammo would be my choice. It feeds like FMJ but expands like a defensive hollow point should.
One solid hit in the chest and they are going down fast.
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it wouldnt suprise me if Arsenal is getting these rifles in just the way we see them, then swapping out what needs to, for resale to the public. they are a major importer and supplier to the military and government and private security agencies.
If this is the case, then yes they could import restricted rifles without needing to convert, but I never seen any reports of Arsenal supplying military or law enforcement armories with 100 series AKs. They could apply for the permits to try anyway. However, I would think the Feds would really have an issue with this IF the permit is to allow them to market to military and LEOs, but they instead install compliance parts and sell to civilians. I would imagine that the intended purpose of an import permit would play heaviliy into justifying granting it in the first place. I still give them kudos for making these available in the states.
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i was wondering if different ammo would have a drastic difference in patterning.
Turns out, yah, it does.
Handloads with the right components will make a world of difference in 7.62x39
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The question is pretty simple. If Arsenal does any cutting or welding of the receiver...why would it have an Izhmash factory finish over the cutting or welding? Because they care that much about attention to detail they took the time and effort to replicate what Izhmash uses?
Doubtful.
If there's some evidence the 31-94's are refinished by Arsenal I'd like to see it. It's just that so far I haven't.
Since you bring this up, when I removed all the paint that my sgl21 came with, my trigger guard and oddly the front bayonet lug had a different paint that was not like the Izmash paint over the rest of the rifle. The paint remover peeled the trigger guard and the lug paint pretty fast and took an hour on the rest of the rifle. The paint on the receiver was not touched up with any of the easier to remove paint. Does this mean that Arsenal or possibly Izmash Legion custom shop painted the easy to remove paint on? I don't know. But, the linkage holes area wasn't touched up so I'm not sure what that means either.
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I don't have any evidence to know whether or not they were ever there. My money is on the rifle being converter from a stock sporter.
I have no doubt whatsoever that arsenal cuts the receivers for the sidefolders. There's no way Izzy would be cutting the hole for the trunnion button off-center.
And it makes no sense whatsoever for Izzy to make a non-sporter receiver with no rivet holes and yet have a sporter trigger cutout.
Ok, then Arsenal has some really talented welders working on these. The grain pattern on my SGL 21 where the linkage holes should be is flawless.
I can't explain it otherwise.
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the receiver DOES have the sporter trigger cutout
I am willing to bet that the M3 EXP 1 rifles also have the rear trigger holes but don't have one that I can check.
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the receiver DOES have the sporter trigger cutout
Yes but no linkage holes. It might not be a regular welded up saiga. If it is, that is one heck of a perfect seamless weld job.
How could you explain the lack of linkage holes if they were never there?
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If that's the case, why does the receiver have the slot cut out for the sporter trigger ?
They probably used a regular non-third hole(non-select fire) receiver stamping that would normally be used for the saiga line but it didn't have the linkage pin holes or any other sporter cutouts. What I am saying is the receiver is obviously not made for a select fire 7.62x39 and if the idea is correct about how they import these incompletely assembled then it was never originally built into a rifle that would have needed to have the linkage holes.
The Saiga M3 EXP 1 is semiauto also and never had linkage holes. They ship from the factory exactly as shown in the factory website photo.
So, these too should also be able to make their way to the USA if unassembled the same way.
http://www.izhmash.ru/eng/product/saiga-m3exp.shtml
Well, Arsenal did have a folding stock version recently which is probably close to the EXP 1 hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
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Don't hold me to this it is second hand but what I have been told is when the guns come into country they are a reciever, trunion,and a barrel with the FSB and GB installed then Arsenal puts the rest of the together with parts from Izh. that came shipped in a different crate and the correct US parts, Since the gun comes unassembled the goverment lets them come in knowing that Arsenal is building them for this reason. I assume it is because they are a importer and a Class 2 mfg. or they are paying off the right people.
Either way I am glad they are a good gun. This is what I was told by my local dealer who talked to someone at there booth at the SHOT show. Also TX-Zen I was looking at one of the folders and I think they are factory installed I know it is not suppost to be legal but neither was importing S-12 factory 8rd mags till I saw K-var had them.This might be the actual way then. I checked my SGL 21 when I first got it for welding seams at the linkage holes and I can't seem to find a weld seam anywhere.
If no linkage holes were ever there, then it couldn't have started out as a sporter.
This method of import would make far more sense and require far less work.
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Hi everyone,
I posed this question on an older thread, so I decided to start a fresh one. I have a 7.62x39 with the 20" barrel. I've clamped two of these on the barrel:
one up against the gas block, and the other butted up to the first one.
I want to get some thoughts/constructive criticism on this. My theory is that they will A: stiffen the barrel, and B: act as heat sinks for the barrel. Is there any glaringly obvious problem with this I may have overlooked?
My main concern is that I may be putting some sort of unwanted stress on the barrel, but I'm thinking you'd strip the threads before you ever got it tight enough to harm the barrel or misshape the bore.
Yes it will act as a heat sink.
I doubt that will have any real effect on stiffening the barrel.
It will introduce a pressure point which can become variable when the barrel heats up and expands. Variations of pressure on the barrel can change the point of impact.
I saw a shotgun at a turkey shoot throw a pattern 6 to 8 inches higher because it was rested directly on the lower barrel half. The box o truth also tested this out in one of their episodes. Unless you absolutely need a mounted light or lazer, this mount is more trouble than it helps.
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So, in short, Boiling water down the barrel and gas tube, dry it, then clean as normal?
Boiling water on anything that has the salts. Removing the muzzle brake and gas tube is a good idea as stated.
If it were me, I would do an initial flush through the barrel, gas tube, gas block, muzzle device, breach face area near the bolt, and then allow the removeable parts to soak briefly in a tub of hot water. Dry and then clean the carbon deposits as usual. Make sure the firing pin channel in the bolt is clean and dry. Water or oil in the channel is bad.
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The best advice has already been given; use very hot water
This and the fact that the hotter the water gets it dissolves salts at a faster rate.
This thread has really been fun. The concept of leaving windex sitting in a barrel for hours with corrosive primers in the attempt to neutralize the salts
may one day cease to exist as gun forums expose the truth about this.
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I have several cases of the Yugo M67, and shoot it on a semi-regular basis in my SKS and my new Saiga AK toy. It's not near as corrosive as some of the post-war Polish I run in my Mosin, but it is still corrosive primed ammo. Most don't know Hoppe's #9 was designed for corrosive ammo. I keep a spray bottle in my range bag just for the hour trip home. I spray the barrel/chamber/gas system liberally and wrap the gun in an old sheet before placing it in the case. When I get home, I go to work cleaning the rifle(s). Ususally the spray-down has all the gunk loosened up real nice for me. Local sportsman shop keeps it in half-gallon jugs, so I can refill the bottle when needed.
WD40 is a water displacer. The name means "Water Displacer, 40th Attempt". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WD-40 It was originally developed for the US Nuke Arsenal, but has gone worldwide. Also makes short work of stickers on most surfaces.
Both WD40 and Hoppes are 90% or higher hydrocarbons according to their online MSDS WD 40 is cheaper for using it to simply preserve your barrel before cleaning.
A quart of motor oil will do the same and is even cheaper at $2 to $3 a quart. Pesonally, I would get the motor oil.
I have used break parts cleaner (careful with the outer rifle finish) to revove carbon fouling from barrels for years with perfect success. It is fairly cheap and works really well.
I would use hot boiling water to remove salts if I were to shoot any corrosive ammo. Water is cheap as it gets.
I use a foaming bore cleaner to remove copper smearing if needed and this is the most expensive thing I use once in a while.
http://www.hoppes.com/msds/Hoppes9/MSDS_Tri-Pac_No_%209_Solvent-Liquid_Revision_1-3.pdf
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I could be wrong but isn't WD40 just a solvent and not a lubricant?
It definitely acts more like a solvent. It displaces water so it would be great for preventing rust in the bore until the bore can be properly cleaned.
I seen WD 40 dry into a hard shellac after a few months. This would not be a good lubricant.
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I only ever had one problem with a surplus 7.62 mag but that was because it had a huge dent in the middle preventing the follower to go any further. However if it was loaded to just above the dent it worked fine. I've had more problems with new mags then any surplus I've ever had. Luck of the draw I guess.
P.S
Imo if the online price is to good to be true ($9 a mag special) then Im a bit skeptical. Maybe they are trying to unload questionable quality merchandise. If I can't see it with my own eyes ill spend a little more on a mag I can see.
I have got several unissued 30 rounders at that time for $8 from the same company and they were perfect. My biggest surprises were mags I bought from JoeKen firearms known for questionable deals. Bulgarian circle 10 30 round mags for $8 a piece and some mislabeled unissued steel Russian mags with the arrow symbol for about $8 or $9 each. I'm still in shock over these. I got 10 of these.
Saiga 100 series form atlantic, half converted saiga out of the box
in Saiga 7.62 X 39
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I was ready to buy at least 5 SGL 10 rifles if the price was far under $800 the last time I checked on the atlantic website last year or so.
Now it finally happens but no dimples.
Less than $500 and dimples with 24mm threading and then I may get interested again. Until then, I won't hold my breath.