my762buzz
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Posts posted by my762buzz
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Funny, you are the only person that has ever said this.
I was a chemistry minor in college. I had to spend some time with galvanic cells and basic corrosion study. Steel can corrode in the presence of water and oxygen.
Water becomes the media or solvent of the reaction. Oxygen is a very electronegative atom that wants to take electrons from where ever it can. Iron in steel is vulnerable to this
violent electron transfer reaction, but water is needed whether from the air as humidity (water vapor) or the condensed form of water vapor being water. The presence of salt ions in the water accelerate that process. Charged particles (ions) from metal-nonmetal compounds or from acid or base dissociation act to speed up the process. Salt compounds can also draw moisture from the air and concentrate water right where they are. When they do this, you have the initial ions, water, and oxygen to begin corrosion.
Ammonia in water forms ammonium and hydroxide {NH3 + H2O ↔ (NH4+) + (OH-)} which are also able to help in assisting oxygen present react with iron to form iron oxide better known as rust.
Chrome like other metals can also corrode into chrome oxide which is greenish in color.
To bring this into proper perspective, water and oxygen alone can work to corrode your rifle, water with oxygen and primer salt ions will work even faster, water with oxygen with corrosive primer salt ions and ammonium and possibly hydroxide will work even faster. Therefore, squirting windex which has water and ammonium into a barrel with primer salts and letting it sit is really a bad idea. Also, Ammonium ions do not neutralize the salt ions. That is horse shit.
Bad ideas have been present for a long time in mans history whether someone comes along to question them. The first emperor of China was prescribed mercury pills because one of his alchemists got the idea that this would make him live forever. The mercury killed him. The Romans built aquaducts to carry fresh water into Rome. Good idea except for the fact that they were lined with lead piping. So there you have it. Don't believe the witch doctor alchemists that swear by using windex as a prevention.
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Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. I want a gun I can depend on, and 1 FTE in 80 rounds might not seem huge, but if that happened when it counted, it could cost me my life.
When the empties normally eject do they fling out more than 10 ft away before they touch the ground?
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I buy military surplus first. If there was a new production mag and a surplus mag (assuming good condition) and +/- a few dollars difference o go with the surplus.
The problem with surplus is that you don't know how used and thus close to failure the spring is in the mag. I did have one 5.45 surplus mag fail multiple times at the range. Since I'm obsessed with reliability - not wanting my rifle to fail when I need it to save my life - I now only buy new production milspec mags.
I remember getting a few dozen steel Romanian RPK surplus 40 round 7.62x39 mags from IO when they ran a sale for $9 a piece some years back. The mags arrive and after cleaning and putting them back together I test a few out. Half of them had worn out springs and would not feed properly. I bought new east german replacement springs close to $5 a spring for all of the mags.
The cheapest I seen any mag springs lately is $22.49 for 3 at midway. I would agree that buying new production mags should ensure that they work and with 5.45 I am not even sure that those mag springs are available anywhere unless they use the same AKM mag springs.
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Well, I got bored and decided to have a little curious fun.
I took a TC Arms Contender walnut forearm, an Izmash saiga mag, an Izmash saiga forearm, a glock mag loader, and an Arsenal waffle mag and placed them into an aluminum foil lined oven tray.
I set the intitial oven temperature at 250 F and allowed the parts to sit for 30 minute intervals at increasing temperatures. My intention was to observe what happens at the different set temperature points I use. I was quite surprised at how most of the parts became heavily damaged during the last interval that experienced a temperature as high as 455 F but some of the parts appeared to have been more damaged than others during the rise between 405 to 455 F. From this experiment, I would conclude that the stock Saiga factory forearm, a wood handguard, and the Arsenal plastic handguard (made of the same plastic as the waffle mag) would easily survive up to 400 degrees F of direct barrel contact heat. Beyond this point, I think the Arsenal handguard has the edge in surviving because it showed the least amount of deformation and would also have the added benefit of a stainless steel heat shield which is not even a factor in this experiment.
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The gas tube inner surface is unprotected as in non-chromelined steel unlike the inner gas block is on saigas which is chrome lined. Hot gases exit the barrel partially through the gas hole then enter into the gas block and then pass into the gas tube area where the hot gases contact the cooler gas tube. Just like your breath can condense against a cooler glass window and fog it, the hot gases will also condense against cooler surfaces like the gas tube. I have seen my gas tubes get small amounts of rust even shooting American made ammo that is absolutely non corrosive. Shooting corrosive primers just makes it worse...
So many vendors and no chrome plated gas tubes. Man I bet a few people might want a few?????????????????????
The gas tube is easily replaced, barely necessary, (more of a guide for the piston than anything), and has got to be cheap to manufacture, which is why I'm guessing Ivan never bothered to chrome it.
For the US market; a chromed gas tube option would be very welcome.
How about the whole rifle done in black chrome?
Corrosion resistent, solvent resistent, and looks slick.
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I use the black powder cleaners first to get the salts out. Then clean normally with CLP. No problems with 7N6. After firing on the range, spray the bore/parts down with WD40. This will keep the water out until you can clean. WD40 will evaporate so dont wait to long. I have seen some ammo corrode and rust in 2 hours or so in humid conditions. But most ammo will not be that bad. Soap and water will also work. But I find the black power cleaners less messy.Ammonia does not neutralize the salts. But it does clean out the gunk.
The WD40 is a very good point. Any nonpolar (oil based) fluid like motor oil,wd 40, kerosene, petroleum jelly, cosmoline, vegetable oil, animal fats like lard will coat the steel and prevent any corrosion. The eastern block armories used cosmoline(oil based) for decades to prevent rust and it worked just fine.
Instead of windex (very bad idea from a long time ago), if shooters want to prevent corrosion until they have time to clean a squirt bottle of motor oil or WD40 would keep oxidation from happening. Salt cannot do its dirty work of creating corrosion while swimming in oil based media.
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About four hours later I was stripping for cleaning and noticed an ungodly amount of rust in my gas tube? Can the gas tube oxidize that quickly? I'm pretty sure I checked the tube prior to cleaning as I wiped everything down with REM oil. Should I be concerned?
The gas tube inner surface is unprotected as in non-chromelined steel unlike the inner gas block is on saigas which is chrome lined. Hot gases exit the barrel partially through the gas hole then enter into the gas block and then pass into the gas tube area where the hot gases contact the cooler gas tube. Just like your breath can condense against a cooler glass window and fog it, the hot gases will also condense against cooler surfaces like the gas tube. I have seen my gas tubes get small amounts of rust even shooting American made ammo that is absolutely non corrosive. Shooting corrosive primers just makes it worse. Maybe a chrome plated inner gas tube would likely prevent this permanently. Other than that, a lite coat of heavy grease might help. Just avoid getting any oil or grease in the gas block. That part needs to stay clean and dry.
So many vendors and no chrome plated gas tubes. Man I bet a few people might want a few?????????????????????
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You're better off just letting it sit with whatever residue is in it than actually adding unneeded moisture to the mix.
Yes, absolutely true.
Rust is iron oxide which means iron combined with oxygen. In order for this to happen, water needs to be present.
No water, no moisture in the air, then no problem.
http://science.howstuffworks.com/question445.htm
Letting windex(over 90% water)sit on steel is asking for trouble. The ammonium in windex makes it even more corrosive than water alone.
Water, ammonium, and salts combined make a fantastic corrosion promoting solution.
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I left windex on a fairly new stainless steel knife for a couple of hours.
I got rust pitting and corrosive etching.
I sure wouldn't leave windex in my barrel.
Water flushes away any salts just fine.
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This proves one does not need to buy a high dollar optic, to obtain good results with a quality rifle.
I'll go with this to a point.
I think the $40 scope is good enough for punching paper in very controlled conditions, but I doubt it would hold up long being drug through the woods. I'm looking into a POSP but not sure if I want to spend the monies on it now.
The Tasco does hold good zero with this mount. Might only be off a foot at 500 yds. each time I put it back on.
My long range 500-1000 yard rig has produced 0.3 inch groups with Federal Gold Medal Match ammo pretty consistently but sometimes the same Gold Medal Match ammo on warmer days produces groups of 0.5 MOA. I have also managed to shoot some Australian surplus 7.62 Nato near 1 MOA on one of my last range trips. Most surplus ammo does not do nearly as well. More like 1 to 1.5 MOA out of the same rifle. I would say your doing good with a $40 Tasco scope. I tried less expensive scopes on the same rifle many years ago but the recoil destroyed them. I tried BSA, Tasco, and Simmons. Finally I got tired of buying replacements, so I bought some expensive glass. http://www.valdada.com/product/576e210e-44ed-4445-ad85-0905ed8dab82.aspx
However if I had to do it over again, I would rather get a night force scope. http://www.nightforceoptics.com/SCOPES_OVERVIEW/8-32x56___12-42x56/8-32x56_-_12-42x56.html
I seen a video about how they make them and nothing seemed to come close to the quality for the money. You could probably run over it with a SUV and it would probably still work perfect.
The glass plane lazer etched reticles are pretty amazing and are extremely thin and precise for long range.
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Are Saigas in 7.62x39 going to be more accurate then your run of the mill Romanian or Chinese AK?
Every Saiga I own with at least a 10x scope mounted (not iron sighted)and the rifle properly bench rested has consistently produced 2 MOA or less with USA made ammo.
Russian ammo produces a bit more moa size in the same guns. My Russian Vepr has been more consistently closer to 1 MOA. I'm not talking about a comparison of Joe Smith that
buys a Wasr10 or Chinese Mak90 and then proceeds to use the cheapest ammo he can find and instead of bench resting the rifle shoots standing without a scope free handed and then
decides that that is as good as it gets. That would be a rediculous evaluation and sadly I have seen people do just that at public ranges or worse pressing their hand against the barrel
and not understanding why their bolt action rifle is shooting 10 inch groups that keep shifting from point of aim. I once saw some 40 year old man shooting an sks with his son and couldn't understand why his groups would not adjust to his scope point of aim. I looked at the rifle and his scope mount was loose enough to wobble the scope a 1/4 inch. By the way, old guns with loose worn out parts and looser bores generally shoot wider groups than a new tightly fitted gun. The barrel bore does not get any tighter than when it is first made. Heavily used barrels make things much worse.
Other AK type rifles I have owned (not Saiga), have not been that precise with USA made ammo.
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Now thats an answer. thanks for the link. I was wondering if anyone had any info on what the sapson does against car doors, masonry walls and other hard cover. Against those you may rather have a SP or FMJ, but im quite sure it would do just fine against body armor. Has anyone done tests specific to the sapson?
The open tip is suppose to react with water hydraulically to strip away the jacket and allow the lead core to quickly expand or fragment within the wet media like for instance living tissue.
Hitting a car door should not have the same expansion effect and I would seriously doubt that lead core FMJ would have any significant advantage in hard barrier penetration but I can't remember seeing anyone's testing of hp versus sp vs fmj through wood or some other measurable material distance wise. Because bullets are only stabilized by the twist rate to remain stable through air, impacting anything denser than air will cause a degree of instability in the path which means no more perfect straight arc but tumbling sooner than later.
Watch how soon you can see a bullet tumble through an impacted object in this video.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4526819805867391097#
If the car door were to cause fmj, soft point, or hp to tumble the same upon impact, the soft point or hollow point probably would not work as they should when the bullet finally impacts an intended target inside the car sideways.
Basic cinder blocks are fairly tough to pass through with even a 30-06.
This guy that posted a video on you tube did basic masonry tests with various calibers.
You can see a bullet that barely passed through the block then key hole into the immediate wood board behind it.
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Fuckin devastating, thats one hell of an exit wound. I wanna hunt pigs with my ak, but I live in PA where there are no pigs
, and noone can hunt with a semiauto rifle here, although the rest of our gun laws are pretty decent, I guess I cant have everything, thank goodness no bullet buttons or ammo restrictions 
. sorry for the ramble, Thanks buzz, thats was just what I wanted to know. I didnt know if prefail cuts were on the outside as to look distinctive or on the inside, which would look like any other wolf hollow point. Now I know, and I think I may have passed up the good ones, oh well It was only two boxes anyways. Ill be ready for next time.
Do you know if these bullets are still being manufactured? Im not under the impression that they are a rarity, but I do think they will get grabbed up if at the right price, by those who know the difference.
Also, what do you think of the 154gr wolf SP? I figure most deadly situations happen at less than 25yds anyways, and these will get out to 200 before really losing steam. I like throwing the biggest chunk of lead down range as possible, with a rifle anyways. Im not sure how much it matters.
I hope they continue to ship them to the USA but there is not much of them around for sale right now.
I have not tried the 154gr but the seem to open up a bit in ballistic gel.
Definitely better than FMJ but not as much concentrated destruction as 8m3.
http://www.brassfetcher.com/7.62x39mm%20Wolf%20154gr%20Soft%20Point.html
Wolf 154gr sp
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On the sapson bullet, I was told that it has prefail cuts on the sides of the hollow point, and if it doesnt, it isnt a sapson. Is this correct? I passed on couple boxes of wolf 124gr Hp in the camo box because they didnt have the cuts. Was I right in doing so or do the sapsons look just like any other wolf hollow point?
The 8m3 has always been 124 gr hollowpoints. No other recent hollowpoints from Russia are 124 gr that I seen any reports of.
The prefail cuts should be easy to feel with a thin wire or staple on the inside of the hollow point.
If you saw a new recent batch that was labeled 124gr hollow points in the camo boxes, the prefail cuts should be there.
If no cuts, then most probably something is different.
Yes, it was a good idea to hold back for the real 8m3 if it can't be identified.
By the way a few pictures (not my pigs but good references for this) of pigs shot with 8m3:
http://www.texashuntingforum.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/2021077/1
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The cheapest russian import that makes this happen has been the 8m3 bullet previously manufactured in Military Classic 124 gr hollow points.
Has been? Previously? What's with the past tense?
Are they not making the 124 hollow point anymore? I've noticed it's gotten scarce.
I have not seen much of it lately. It might be days away from more arriving by shipload but I see none right now.
The other thing is lately I have seen a few reports of a possible change in the bullet type which I have not been able to confirm because I can't seem to find any
from the last batch imported. If I do, I might go shoot some wet news print and hopefully recover some test bullets to post some pictures of.
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I'm looking for a muzzle brake for a Saiga 308 that helps reduce muzzle rise / recoil / flash and also directs much of the blast and sound towards the front. I don't intend to shoot the rifle without ear protection, nosirrrr, but I want something that would not destroy my hearing in case of an emergency situation, when ear protection may not be available. Any ideas for a muzzle device that accomplishes this?
Just what the Doctor prescribed for hearing protection. As far as Flash, yes it works better than any other flash suppressor, but not really for recoil other than making the front a bit heavier to keep the muzzle down.
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When the single stack 10/63's were 299.00, that was probably the best AK deal going. Dremel and test fit to your liking. Prices have gone up since the romanians are putting new hammer forged chrome lined barrels on. still a great deal though.
The best AK deals I ever saw over ten years ago were regular saigas $150, Robarm Veprs $400, Arsenal Sam7 $400-450, and at the same time Romanian SAR1 $200-$250 and single stack WASR 10 $100-$150 and dealers I knew couldn't give the WASR 10 rifles away back then. There were places selling AKM parts kits for $75 and ammo could be cheaply bought for $60 to $70 per 1000.
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I just really get annoyed at the snobbery some members exhibit when talking about these rifles.
It's nothing compared to similar contrasts in other areas like 870 express vs 870 wingmaster or Colt AR15 vs most other AR15 or Ed Brown 1911 vs any other 1911.
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Please explain what your saiga does better than my WASR.
The differences are based on 2 things. 1. A wasr is made from recycled Romanian AKM (1960-1980s) parts built into a sporter then reshaped in the USA into an AKM clone.
A saiga is made from new modern 100 series steel parts and put together by the AK grand masters in Russia.
Here the contrast is solely based on quality of parts based on the source.
2. The Russian military spent decades redesigning and perfecting the AKM. The newer series has a higher carrier to bolt ratio which means
better leverage when pushing forward to feed or pulling to extract, the extractor design changed to improve reliability, and there are various
minor changes to improve function like a 90 degree gas block or the lower carrier axis.
Here the argument is based upon technology upgrades inherent to the newer generation AKs.
In practical terms, I would expect the new Russian steel parts to take more abuse and to last longer than the used Romanian parts.
Accuracy wise, I have seen Saigas shoot better than Wasrs or Chinese AKs like the MAK90s.
I have owned Romanian rifles like the SAR series which are often praised as the better Romanian imports and Chinese rifles.
The Russian rifles impressed me the most and the rest were sold off.
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The Hornady loaded plastic tip ammo pretty much is the best performing American made 7.62x39 ammo for self defense.
It feeds with a FMJ profile and opens up efficiently distributing far more proportional force than most other bullet choices available.
I have shot deer with the hornady plastic tip ammo and it caused far more damage than typical american made soft points.
No energy is wasted. As much as they expand and transfer energy, this means the bullet is less likely to exit and cause unintentional damage to someone standing behind the intended target.
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2.) What round would you want in your mags if you were out in the woods, alone, with bad guys coming down on you?
I think you can answer that yourself if you watch this video.
Watch the containers very carefully as they are shot.
Shot 1 BEAR HP, SHOT 2 WOLF MILITARY CLASSIC (8M3), SHOT 3 DOUBLE TAP (HORNADY VMAX), SHOT 4 CORBON SP.
If you want minimum damage to the target, use a FMJ. If you want maximum tissue disruption, you need something that really tears the target a new one.
The cheapest russian import that makes this happen has been the 8m3 bullet previously manufactured in Military Classic 124 gr hollow points.
The hornady plastic tip ammo will do the same.
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next time i go to the range im going to remove the break from my SGL21 and shoot a mag or two and then add it again and shoot a few mags to really feel the difference
Try shooting a small basket ball size target at least 10 yards away 5 times fast as possible with and then without the SGL21 brake. Try and notice your speed difference.
Bowling allies sometimes sell old worn out bowling pins fairly cheap and these make good targets. I line up several and time myself in knocking down all of them.
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I didn't make my above video to specifically show off the effectiveness of the brake, but if you can't see the difference between that and the Tapco in dashowdy's link, you really need to look more closely.
The original design is a lot more effective than the cheap Tapco imitation. This is obvious. There really isn't anything to "debate" here.
I personally know that the real 74 style brakes like the KVAR one work far better but most other people can't see this easily. This is why a side by side comparison video would help
to clearify this.
7N6 Seems Pretty Dirty...
in Saiga 5.45
Posted
The thing is that usually people sell ammonia into this process as a "salt neutralizer" which it does not do. Neutralization reactions are acid and bases and not salts.
Keeping windex sitting in a barrel for hours is allowing it to work its corrosion on steel or chrome. Boiling hot water for a quick flush is a much better salt removal treatment.
Carbon residue is much easier cleaned with non-water bearing cleaners. In chemistry it is taught that like dissolves like, carbon and water and not alike. Carbon based solvents like nonpolar
oil based ones dissolve carbon properly. Windex does more harm in keeping it sitting in a bore than it would do good.
I kept some windex on a stainless steel knife for a few hours and got some nice corrosive etching. No thanks.