HateTheSnow
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Posts posted by HateTheSnow
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That's what I was going to suggest...a recoil pad. Milsurp, limbsaver, homemade, whatever. It's a cheap investment to determine whether or not you need to ditch the current caliber for tamer offerings.
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So after going to my local skeet/trap range with my pump and saiga had some of my normal complainers and it seems that it used to be ok for me to go shoot like uh every week there with either gun but it seems they place has changed hands and now they are enforcing the 2 shell max rule it used to be no one realy cared but ehh o well they said I could shoot the saiga as long as i use 2 round mags and no pg. So i think im gona just go ahead and get me a good skeet/trap gun ive always wanted to get a nice over and under 12ga but never realy looked into getting one was wondering if any of you ahve any experince with them used in trap or skeet looking for a decent gun at a decent price funds kinda limited :/ Sell plasma as it is for ammo hehe well any thoughts or ideas im listing
Trap and skeet are two different animals, and the guns vary for the purists in each arena. However, I have been shooting a Remington SPR-310S (Baikal import) sporting clays model for the past several years. That one runs about $600, but they do have less expensive field models with shorter barrel lengths/no porting for around $400. Not the prettiest gun at the range and it doesn't have all the extras of a 1K+ shotgun, but it's a solid gun for the money.
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms...under_specs.asp
Of the other guys on my team I shoot with and the others I shoot against, my Baikal holds the title of the least expensive shotgun by a fair margin. Still, I hit and miss clays right along with everyone else using high end Berettas, Brownings, Perazzis, Kolars, etc. The Baikal doesn't have the fancy wood, engravings, or the comb & pull adjustments; but it does the job and is a solid performer at a fraction of the cost. In the end, my experience is that proper form and practice make the biggest difference. All of that said, when you get to the pro level the gun does help; but most of those guys are either independently wealthy or sponsored...and the guns are specialized for the event they shoot in that you won't find a top-end trap gun in the skeet events, or vice-versa.
My advice is to start on the cheap. Go out, have fun, learn a bit, and if the bug bites you in a particular event just keep your eyes peeled and your ears open. Deals come up all the time at the ranges. Whether you swap, sell, beg, or borrow; in time you'll get to see and use enough guns to make an informed decision on any significant purchases.
Finally, I am no fan of Stoeger O/U guns. I have personally seen numerous examples of where the single inertia trigger does not properly reset for the second barrel to fire. The company's official answer is to "burp" the gun, or in laymen's terms to slam the butt on the ground, use a firm palm on the butt, etc to set the trigger. All of my experience tells me that is an unsafe workaround to use on a chambered firearm, but that's their answer instead of retrofitting the existing guns and redesigning the next gen coming off the assembly line.
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Going forward, give M-Pro7 a look. Great stuff...odorless, non-toxic, and cleans fouling like nobody's business. I picked up some free samples at the SHOT show a few years back and haven't gone back to Hoppe's since. BTW, same company, just a newer product.
http://www.mpro7.com/MPro7-Gun-Cleaner.html
Beyond that, I know where you're coming from. My wife hated it whenever I get the Hoppes out. Even when I was in the garage, she swore she could smell that stuff in the house.
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When setting up a cache, going cheap can pay off. Once you've put your stuff on "ice" (via vacuum sealed bags, ammo cans, and/or PVC piping), going underground or underwater does wonders.
The other ideas are great tips, but it never hurts to keep your eggs in different baskets.
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Shot Straight is in Cassleberry, they also have an indoor range.
The Florida Gun Exchange in Port Orange is a good shop.
AAA Pawn & Gun in Deland have over 5,000 guns in stock.
+1 on Shoot Straight. The others are a bit out of my neck of the woods, so I can't comment either way.
Also, if you're going to be in town the weekend on June 27/28, I'd suggest trying to make your way over to Lakeland (<1 hr from Orlando) for the Suncoast Gun Show. These guys always have a huge booth there & will generally wheel and deal at the shows a lot more than in the stores, especially if you are picking up more than one toy or talk with the owner...plus they always have "show specials" to boot. I've picked up several gems from them at just above cost via the shows.
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That is almost too scary to relate to current day politicts...
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Regardless of the timing, it's a good reminder of the types of tactics the predators out there continually try to employ, and that you should never give information out to anyone unless you are 101% sure of who they are and why they need the information. And when it comes to unsolicited calls, they should have that information already or have other means to verify who you are, rather than you providing sensitive information.
The tactics change almost daily, but the moral doesn't - Get a call back number you can easily verify, otherwise, tell 'em to go pack sand!
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It has only saved my bacon once in 30 years but that was enough to make a believer out of me.
It only takes one time to become a statistic. I don't carry all the time while at home, but I do have one when answering the door, working in the garage, doing garage sales, etc. Better to have one at the ready than 75ft away in another room when things go bad.
Even my wife, who is an avid animal rights activist and anything but a gun enthusiast, keeps my .40 on her when I'm away...yeah, I know, no need to remind me of the oil and water relationship there. And no, she didn't buy the story about how deer shed their antlers for the racks I have to keep in the garage.
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That is one screwed up kid...and also why I get on my wife when she just runs and opens the door when somebody rings the doorbell.
It reminds of an event not too many months ago where my Dad, who is a judge and lives in an upscale neighborhood, noticed two individuals suspiciously casing the area around his home. About a half hour later he heard a loud knock on the door. He was busy and didn't bother answering the door immediately, but they knocked again a second time even louder, and then again a third time after a few more moments. Fortunately, he was on alert after spotting them earlier and had been out patrolling that day with the Coast Guard Auxiliary & was still in his BDUs, so he strapped on a 9mm and went to answer the door. He approached the door well within their view through the bay windows, and by the time he got there, they were half way down the walkway to the street and said "sorry mister, we have the wrong house." I have to wonder how the outcome would have gone if he was just "Joe homeowner" who didn't believe in keeping guns at the ready to protect his homestead.
You can't be too careful these days. There are some strange individuals walking around and the times of leaving your doors and windows unlocked are long gone.
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Another thing worth noting is that many people with decent to good credit were also pushed into sub-prime loans as a means to get higher profits through higher interest rates. Don't let anyone fol you, it's about greed and a flawed monetary system that is ran DIRECTLY by banks that work in secrecy for profit. Learning about our monetary system was a big eye opener for me as well as a big disappointment, not that I know a lot. Yeah, I'm one of those nutty Ron Paul "Paleoconservatives".
Here's a web version of some more information on the issue. Banks were at fault for sure, making loans that never should have been made, but the role congress played was far from that of the sole voice of opposition.
http://doctorbulldog.wordpress.com/2008/09...the-fannie-mae/
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[Political Soapbox]
There's a lot of cross talk between the parties about who is responsible for the current breakdown of the economy and who has the best plan to fix it, but information is starting to make its rounds that the warning signs were out there (and in some cases, in the forms of outright warnings), and certain "parties" failed to take the appropriate, or any, action despite the information and encouragement from their colleges.
One such article is the 1999 New York Times article entitled "Fannie Mae Eases Credit To Aid Mortgage Lending," which is starting to make its' rounds in e-mails in various annotated formats. Here is a link to the actual article in the archives of the NYT website:
Another is more recent and was aired on Fox News, though I don't recall seeing or hearing this being covered on CNN or other news agencies. I don't have a link the article as aired, but here's a youtube link with the news clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QBRIsCkGQ0
I think most of us here stand on fairly common ground in regards to the unalienable rights guaranteed by the constitution, and how they are "interpreted," but there are other issues that are equally important we need to examine in our leaders. I support your decision to go whichever way you decide, as is your right in our free society, but do so with the knowledge of what the people you are voting for stand for. I may be preaching the choir, but I hope the information here is helpful, if not informative, none the less.
[/Political Soapbox]
Regards,
FLTF3
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Tracking info shows my drums arriving tomorrow (order EV-793).
After having the opportunity to see and use the prototype at the last Florida shoot back in March, I had to just put it out of my mind that these drums were even in development. Definitely worth the wait...thanks Mike!
I'll be "function testing" the drums this weekend, so I'll be sure to take a camera along. The "WTF is that?" looks are going to be priceless.
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The link below is to a local news story on one of our firefighters who recently came back from Iraq, with a bronze star no less. While he would be the the last guy to speak up about anything he did, we are proud to say the least and don't mind bragging on him a bit.
The original link was extremely long, but the video clip is short and sweet...enjoy:
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Thank you very much for that unbiased report from the Fla shoot bro.
Mike's beta mag worked so well, it ticks me off every time I look at the 10-round AGP mag I have in my S-12 here at the homestead.
Please dont write the AGP 10 rd mags off just because the 20 rd drum is starting to come out. They are a major asset too, we cant run around with a 20 rd drum on the shotty all of the time
I have 4 10 rd mags and they will still be used faithfully.
Not my intent at all with that post. I love my AGP mags and will continue to use them. That was just me daydreaming about having a working and available drum to complete the collection...much like it was when folks were waiting on the AGPs mags when all they had were the 5 & 7 round factory mags. That said, each has their place and purpose. Again, from personal experience, the "one-size-fits-all" approach doesn't apply in this case.
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I know exactly how you feel. When you have actually used one, and taken it apart...seen all there is to it, it is EXTREMELY aggrivating to come here and try to follow ANY of the threads about them and how they are vaporware and bla bla bla.....
Exactly, but we both know they aren't vaporware and the betas work just as Mike says they do.
Still, when I finally get a shipping version, I will take it out, torture test it thoroughly, and report accordingly. I'm confident the tests will go just as it did in March, but there are always naysayers. Maybe they're in the better position by staying on the sidelines, but either way, its the early adopter like you and me that will determine that either way. And while I can't comment on the shipping versions either way, given Mike's commitment to quality, I think they will be every bit as reliable as the betas before he releases them. That's my opinion, but I firmly believe time will prove that to be fact.
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Thank you very much for that unbiased report from the Fla shoot bro.
Belive me bro, I was more anxious than most folks here to get my hands on a shipping version in time for that shoot, and to say I was dissapointed that we didn't have one on hand is an understatement. That said, the beta version was a true pleasure to play with and has pushed me to the point I hate to even follow the posts on when it will finally ship. Mike's beta mag worked so well, it ticks me off every time I look at the 10-round AGP mag I have in my S-12 here at the homestead.
My history is solidly based in having equipment that works as advertised, so I have no problem saying this drum will be well worth it for all those who were willing to wait patiently!
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If you aint got the money dont buy. Mike is trying to put the deal together...
Quoted for truth. Mike was upfront about the pre-orders financing the project, an ambitious project I might add.
Manufacturing any new design is fraught with difficulties, and I can tell you that weapons magazines are more complex than they appear.
Tooling for injection molding isn't cheap and these are LARGE molds. And when changes have to be made, they take time to make- then the 1st article checking, and subsequent rework until you get what you want. All in all I think the project went pretty fast; although in any such endeavor most of the people involved are somewhat "optimistic"...it's only natural.
Well put Bob. Those of us that purchased in the pre-production stage did so knowingly to get in on an "introductory" price. I think the vast majority of folks here are comfortable with that, present company included, but for the others, Mike has made it clear that he is willing to give their cash back with no questions asked.
Beyond that, I'd like to add some of my experience with MD Arms:
- I have called MD Arms an several occasions in the past and left a message, only to have Mike D call back within a day or two. That was a while ago and he may be a bit busier these days, but my take was that Mike is a guy who treats his business like a business that wants to succeed, and his goal is to deliver a good product with good customer service.
- I was involved in coordinating a shoot for Saiga-12 members a few months ago and I asked Mike for a drum to have on hand at the shoot. While he didn't have a shipping version available, he did send one of his beta drums with Makc and it worked flawlessly. Keep in mind we had a cardboard box full of ammo that was donated to the event by the Florida Shooter's Association, so we fed the mag a VERY wide variety of ammo (slug, buckshot, and birdshot) in mix of at least 20 different S-12s that ranged from "new out of the box" to fully modified by reputable outfits such as Tromix and VKA. Long story short, the MD drum performed every bit as well as the factory and AGP mags the members here brought with them.
- I am not affiliated with MD Arms, or any other vendor here or elsewhere. I tend to call things as I see them, and if there was an inherent problem with his drum, I would have no problem saying so. And I am someone with first-hand experience with it. For those who choose not to take my info at face value, get your cash back. You can buy at the regular price once the drums hit the market and the feedback confirms what I have said here.
Mike D - Thanks for the update. Take your time, get it right, and it will all pay off in dividends. As we've seen in the past, nothing is worse than rushing to market just to make a profit.
Just my 2¢
- I have called MD Arms an several occasions in the past and left a message, only to have Mike D call back within a day or two. That was a while ago and he may be a bit busier these days, but my take was that Mike is a guy who treats his business like a business that wants to succeed, and his goal is to deliver a good product with good customer service.
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And finally...pics from the other side of the bench
Early morning view of the range
Right side
Left side
A quick break while we "found" more car parts to shoot up
.Bvamp, I swear that isn't your missing door in the picture
SaigaNewbie and his better half waiting for Mike to finish up with the Uzi
Me (FLTF3) punching holes in car doors with the Uzi
FLTF3's Dad getting comfy with the Uzi
repetesale with the Uzi
After this picture, it took 10 of us to pry the Uzi out of repetesale's hands
Even the RSO's couldn't resist having a little fun
Our end of the bench. And yes, that's my custom .308 on the far left that Bvamp out-shot me with...BASTARD!
The suppressed MAC-11 (aka "the buzz saw")...what a fun little toy that was
repetesale with his Mossberg 500 trying to keep pace with the Saiga-12's
FLTF3's Dad fine tuning his AR
Once again, I can't say enough about how tremendous this day was or how down to earth all the folks that showed up were. Thanks to everyone who showed up! From shooting charged fire extinguishers, car parts, tannerite, water bottles, not-so-fresh fruit, and anything else that wasn't nailed down, it was a great day. Plus Bvamp came with a ton of cool RAAC swag and the shirts from Juggernaut were top notch...nice touches that put this event over the top! And as good as this shoot turned out, I'm going to make it my business to help make next year's event even better.
I have a ton of great memories from that day and hope to see all of you again next year, along with a whole bunch of new faces!
Last but not least, I'd like to send special thanks Makc, Bvamp, repetesale, Vjor, Juggernaut, RAAC, and Leo and Bryan from Viking Kitty Armory for making this event one of the best I have had the pleasure of being a part of. Great job guys!!!
FLTF3
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What an awesome day! Great weather, great folks, and just an all around great time. Thanks again to everyone who made it down.
All-in-all our little group was well recevied by the folks at the range. From the regulars who couldn't resist finding out what all the RAT-TAT-TAT was about to the numerous compliments we got from the RSO's, we made a huge impression. And Gene Pitts, the owner, asked me to pass along his personal thanks and that we are more than welcome to hold future events out there.
The only downside is that there was so much going on, that I'm just now fitting board names to a lot of the folks I met
Pics to come...but give me a day or so since it was taken with a camera that still uses film.
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The fundamental difference that I see between liberals and conservatives is that while liberals seek to control others, so that they themselves are free to do whatever they want (i.e., mold the world in their own image); conservatives seek to control themselves (i.e., live their own lives) in accordance with their values and principles, and simply want the freedom necessary to exercise that control. I own guns, but I don't insist that others own guns. I hunt, but I don't demand that everyone else do so as well. I don't smoke, but I don't insist that no one else be allowed to do so. I keep in good physical condition, but I don't advocate government-imposed sanctions on those who don't (yes, some people are proposing such things). I'm not rich, but I don't support the mandatory redistribution of wealth so that no one else can be either. I don't deliberately offend others, but I don't insist that others be prohibited from doing anything that I might conceivably find offensive. I think for myself, but I don't demand that everyone else agrees with me.
Well said! The problem is more of us need to step and to ensure those freedoms are maintained. It can be a bit counterintuitive to folks like us to impose such things on others, but if we don't, others will.
We are, afterall, a government that is empowered by the people and the Bush/Gore election in 2000 is proof that a few hundred votes can make the difference even in a nationwide election.
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Oh really? Well if they shit the bed, I'll post about it. I don't plan on shooting that gun much though. It isn't my favorite, and the ammo costs way too much money for how little bang it makes.
If ProMag's stuff works for you, that's great and you're going to save tons of $$$ on magazines compared to what I spend. We each buy those items that perform to our individual performance expectations. For me, I test every single magazine I buy before relying on it, regardless of manufacturer. And yes, I do expect a bang with each trigger pull out of the box, but with ProMag products, I just don't get those results even half of the time and that's not just limited to mags for the mini.
Beyond that, advice from others doesn't cost you a plug nickel, so feel free to ignore it.
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If I ever run across one of the originals made by Swiss Arms for anything less than a small fortune, I'll grab it in a red hot second. While the Sigs (US made) are still nice, they're a distant second IMO...and yes, I've had hands on with both.
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madmax4x4 is on the money. Aguila slugs and buckshot rounds fly with minimal recoil and make a wonderful home "D" round in a pump gun. You can learn to operate the 500 to cycle them just fine, but without practice, doing the mods to ensure proper feeding and extraction is the way to go.
Given the inteded purpose though, you proably wouldn't even go through but a few normal 2-3/4" shells in a CQB situation in the home, so I wouldn't be too worried about recoil. Again, a practice is key so you know what to expect and can efficiently cycle the next round. That said, my Mariner 590 came with both the full stock and pistol grip, of which I use neither. I retrofitted mine with a Knoxx SpecOps stock and it stays close by at night, loaded out with Federal Black Cloud...capacity is down a few rounds since they're 3" shells, but nasty, nasty stuff!
Looking to getting an o/u shotgun
in General Discussion - Any topic is welcome here!!!
Posted · Edited by FLTF3