{ROS}_me 32 Posted November 15, 2017 Report Share Posted November 15, 2017 (edited) Anyone have any idea how this happened ? Edited November 15, 2017 by {ROS}_me Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HB of CJ 1,263 Posted November 15, 2017 Report Share Posted November 15, 2017 (edited) My read only. A combination of unfortunate events all coming together time on target. Many events and happenings took years to develop. Some occurred practically immediately and could not be predicted. In other words, shit happened ... twice. 1) Complacency. 2) Funding. 3) Omama. 4) Admiralty. 5) General Orders. 6) Chain of Command. 7) Sea Keeping. 8) Boat Handling. 9) Bad luck. So on and so on. More I think about it, the less I believe in Enemy Action. Too complicated. CORRECTIVE ACTION? Dunno. When stuff like this happens the usual cure requires time and tide. Top to bottom. And bottom to top. This is maybe like what happens when a Champion Athletic lets his daily conditioning and diet go. Laziness. Edited November 15, 2017 by HB of CJ 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted November 15, 2017 Report Share Posted November 15, 2017 ? Something this week? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted November 15, 2017 Report Share Posted November 15, 2017 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ronin38 2,117 Posted November 16, 2017 Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Long Shot 1,287 Posted November 16, 2017 Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 Random but Relevant. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted November 16, 2017 Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 Old news, CO's and Fleet Commanders were forced to retire, due to "lack of confidence to command". (Basically- they were POLITICAL officers, not NAVAL Officers.) 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HB of CJ 1,263 Posted November 16, 2017 Report Share Posted November 16, 2017 Personal opinion ... Subjective ... Remember the state of our US military before World War Two? Especially the condition and readiness of the Navy? Particularly the Pacific fleet at Pearl Harbor? It took our Navy over 18 months to get its shit together. Then they got to work and crushed the worlds third largest navy and worlds strongest aircraft carrier navy in just over 3 1/2 years from the get go. From the mud and blood of Pearl Harbor to the Japanese surrendering on the decks of the USS Missouri. What has happened to our Navy is pretty much what happens to all institutions when there is too much politics and not enough sweat? Too much peace and not enough incentive to maintain a high level of alertness? Just what is our USN for anyhow? For show? Kinda like Mayberry. Or a fire department which has no fires. Cops with no arrests. I hope all of this is taken as a proper and CHEAP wakeup call by our very high politicians and military leaders. To keep our swords sharp you gotta use some elbow grease. And you better continue your sword fighting lessons less some little fast guy cuts you up into big pieces. Yikes! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Capt Nemo 882 Posted November 17, 2017 Report Share Posted November 17, 2017 In the Army, anything above Major has become political. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
{ROS}_me 32 Posted November 23, 2017 Author Report Share Posted November 23, 2017 (edited) Edited November 23, 2017 by {ROS}_me 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 (edited) Navy got real lucky at Pearl, spooky lucky. If they hadn't that plan would have worked. No battle of the Coral Sea no Midway no Guadalcanal... Not sure about that whole mess even now, just wont buy anything sold by Uncle. Edited November 24, 2017 by Rhodes1968 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evlblkwpnz 3,418 Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 Personal opinion ... Subjective ... Remember the state of our US military before World War Two? Especially the condition and readiness of the Navy? Particularly the Pacific fleet at Pearl Harbor? It took our Navy over 18 months to get its shit together. Then they got to work and crushed the worlds third largest navy and worlds strongest aircraft carrier navy in just over 3 1/2 years from the get go. From the mud and blood of Pearl Harbor to the Japanese surrendering on the decks of the USS Missouri. What has happened to our Navy is pretty much what happens to all institutions when there is too much politics and not enough sweat? Too much peace and not enough incentive to maintain a high level of alertness? Just what is our USN for anyhow? For show? Kinda like Mayberry. Or a fire department which has no fires. Cops with no arrests. I hope all of this is taken as a proper and CHEAP wakeup call by our very high politicians and military leaders. To keep our swords sharp you gotta use some elbow grease. And you better continue your sword fighting lessons less some little fast guy cuts you up into big pieces. Yikes! Work ethic and pride in service were a lot different back then. Men acted like men. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jerry52 893 Posted November 24, 2017 Report Share Posted November 24, 2017 Personal opinion ... Subjective ... Remember the state of our US military before World War Two? Especially the condition and readiness of the Navy? Particularly the Pacific fleet at Pearl Harbor? It took our Navy over 18 months to get its shit together. Then they got to work and crushed the worlds third largest navy and worlds strongest aircraft carrier navy in just over 3 1/2 years from the get go. From the mud and blood of Pearl Harbor to the Japanese surrendering on the decks of the USS Missouri. What has happened to our Navy is pretty much what happens to all institutions when there is too much politics and not enough sweat? Too much peace and not enough incentive to maintain a high level of alertness? Just what is our USN for anyhow? For show? Kinda like Mayberry. Or a fire department which has no fires. Cops with no arrests. I hope all of this is taken as a proper and CHEAP wakeup call by our very high politicians and military leaders. To keep our swords sharp you gotta use some elbow grease. And you better continue your sword fighting lessons less some little fast guy cuts you up into big pieces. Yikes! Work ethic and pride in service were a lot different back then. Men acted like men. Men act like men when they are made to act like men. This is a leadership issue. When men are under your supervision fail, its your fault. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted November 25, 2017 Report Share Posted November 25, 2017 Personal opinion ... Subjective ... Remember the state of our US military before World War Two? Especially the condition and readiness of the Navy? Particularly the Pacific fleet at Pearl Harbor? It took our Navy over 18 months to get its shit together. Then they got to work and crushed the worlds third largest navy and worlds strongest aircraft carrier navy in just over 3 1/2 years from the get go. From the mud and blood of Pearl Harbor to the Japanese surrendering on the decks of the USS Missouri. What has happened to our Navy is pretty much what happens to all institutions when there is too much politics and not enough sweat? Too much peace and not enough incentive to maintain a high level of alertness? Just what is our USN for anyhow? For show? Kinda like Mayberry. Or a fire department which has no fires. Cops with no arrests. I hope all of this is taken as a proper and CHEAP wakeup call by our very high politicians and military leaders. To keep our swords sharp you gotta use some elbow grease. And you better continue your sword fighting lessons less some little fast guy cuts you up into big pieces. Yikes! Work ethic and pride in service were a lot different back then. Men acted like men. Men act like men when they are made to act like men. This is a leadership issue. When men are under your supervision fail, its your fault. Men act like men even when no one is looking. 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Razorback 72 Posted December 4, 2017 Report Share Posted December 4, 2017 Off the top of whats left of my head, I have been wondering about how easy or hard it is to actually see from the bridge or control room if it's under the deck.? The old WW2 ships had a real maned bridge that was vulnerable to attack by anything that could hit it. Is there an actual bridge with controls on those aegis class ships? I am pretty certain it has probably had manned lookouts on deck and possibly a manned bridge above deck, but have never seen one up close or been aboard one. This post is strictly an easy chair in the living room uninformed speculation from me. Either they didn't see the other ships they impacted with, decided to OLD GUY the ship and make the other guy get out of my way, I'm US NAVY, and "I have the right of way here", or what the hell are they on, oxy or too much weed, wow man watch this! Or is dude on Twitter, Facebook, ect.... ooops sorry I was texting! I really don't what else to post, this is a set of really strange circumstances separated by a very short time. Under staffing and training played a large role in this. IMHO God Bless our Armed Forces, and many Thank You's for your service, to all of you that have served, or are currently serving. I hope this RNK (North Korea) still in the state of war since 1953, doesn't get any further out of hand. Our Armed Services are all in need of upgrades and equipment, hopefully they will begin to receive everything that they really need really soon. Razorback 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HB of CJ 1,263 Posted December 6, 2017 Report Share Posted December 6, 2017 Good point. We have not toured a Burke class. The older Spruance Class did have only so-so actual visibility from the wheel. My girl friend asked the rating pulling bridge duty during the open house how the helmsman sees where he is going and the sailor just smiled. No seat for the helmsman? He stood at all times? Lots of vertical struts between the windows which were kinda small. Limited visibility. We were told he keeps his eyes on the compass heading. Could these collisions occur because we are just not looking like we should? Or does a demanding tyrant type commanding officer lay so much bull shit regulations and special verbal orders on everybody that nobody has the balls to act independently? Seems to me in crowded sea lane there would EXTRA lookouts and a special quick response routine. But ... I was not there and I am certainly not qualified to suggest anything. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
{ROS}_me 32 Posted December 10, 2017 Author Report Share Posted December 10, 2017 First a thankyou to all that answered this thread ! One such of event bothers me ,two such events ,especialy this close , leed me to think something is fishy. My heart goes out to those injured and lost and their familys. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sjgusmc21 850 Posted December 11, 2017 Report Share Posted December 11, 2017 Men act like men when they are made to act like men. This is a leadership issue. When men are under your supervision fail, its your fault. DING, DING, DING! WINNER!!! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted December 11, 2017 Report Share Posted December 11, 2017 Men act like men when they are made to act like men. DING, DING, DING! WINNER!!! ...so you only act like a man when you are made to? REALLY? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Capt Nemo 882 Posted December 12, 2017 Report Share Posted December 12, 2017 If a general gives garbled commands, and there's failure in the ranks, it's the fault of the general. Replace him! If a general gives clear commands, and there's failure in the ranks, it's the fault of the commanders. Replace them! Sun Tzu Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted December 16, 2017 Report Share Posted December 16, 2017 (edited) It has been said with good cause that girls become women relatively easier though instinct but that boys must be devotedly taught to become men. This is why gents good women are easier to find than good men, or once so. If they were not taught to be men how could they be expected to act as such? Edited December 16, 2017 by Rhodes1968 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HB of CJ 1,263 Posted December 16, 2017 Report Share Posted December 16, 2017 Personal Rant ... Point Of View ... Another basic human problem. We have two genders. Women do NOT belong in the military. Period. Or the police. Especially the American Fire Service. If evolution and Mother Nature wanted women and men to be physically equal they would both have the same physical size and strength. And thought processes. Men and women are not the same. Women are the "egg layers". Their brains are wired for reproduction and finding and holding onto a male to protect her and her children. The mans role is just to hunt, fight, strut around with a boner and decide if he wants to hang around, fuck and protect his woman and all her kids. We used to have females in our fire department. Did not work out. Now the American Fire Service, after 30 years of failure is spending millions of tax dollars upgrading much infrastructure for only one thing .... TO ACCOMMODATE females. Same thing in the United States Navy. How many millions wasted on females? Entire new ship classes are being designed built and launched with many changes just to have the broads on board. Did the two destroyers have any females on board at the time of the ramming incidents? Curious. I bet just one lady on a ship would be enough to screw up all the men on board that ship. Rammings ? Most likely lots of back story on this one. Brave sailors died. But ... we most likely will NOT ever get a comprehensive report naming names and pointing out basic flaws in our USN. Not going to happen. Not until somebody with the balls clears the decks. From the very top on down. You sow the wind, you reap the whirlwind. Rant complete. Respectfully. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
patriot 7,197 Posted December 16, 2017 Report Share Posted December 16, 2017 Personal Rant ... Point Of View ... Most likely lots of back story on this one. Brave sailors died. But ... we most likely will NOT ever get a comprehensive report naming names and pointing out basic flaws in our USN. Not going to happen. Not until somebody with the balls clears the decks. From the very top on down. You sow the wind, you reap the whirlwind. Rant complete. Respectfully. Maybe a woman driver? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HB of CJ 1,263 Posted December 16, 2017 Report Share Posted December 16, 2017 Possible. Perhaps she was wondering about re doing her face make up and had her eyes off the road ... or in this case on the sea. Or compass heading. Or she was feeling ... bloated? Or testy? Oh no ... could it have been that "monthly curse"? Women subconsciously put out pheromones. Variously according to the time of the month. Subconscious. They can not help it. It drives Males crazy. Men can't consciously smell it but their bodies most certainly react to it. Usually with bad result. At some point in time somebody is going to have to step up and just say there is something wrong with our military and specifically wrong with our Navy. But ... they will probably not do so and more collisions and rammings will continue. Very sad. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SmilinEd 364 Posted December 17, 2017 Report Share Posted December 17, 2017 Personal opinion ... Subjective ... Remember the state of our US military before World War Two? Especially the condition and readiness of the Navy? Particularly the Pacific fleet at Pearl Harbor? It took our Navy over 18 months to get its shit together. Then they got to work and crushed the worlds third largest navy and worlds strongest aircraft carrier navy in just over 3 1/2 years from the get go. From the mud and blood of Pearl Harbor to the Japanese surrendering on the decks of the USS Missouri. What has happened to our Navy is pretty much what happens to all institutions when there is too much politics and not enough sweat? Too much peace and not enough incentive to maintain a high level of alertness? Just what is our USN for anyhow? For show? Kinda like Mayberry. Or a fire department which has no fires. Cops with no arrests. I hope all of this is taken as a proper and CHEAP wakeup call by our very high politicians and military leaders. To keep our swords sharp you gotta use some elbow grease. And you better continue your sword fighting lessons less some little fast guy cuts you up into big pieces. Yikes! Work ethic and pride in service were a lot different back then. Men acted like men. Personal opinion ... Subjective ... Remember the state of our US military before World War Two? Especially the condition and readiness of the Navy? Particularly the Pacific fleet at Pearl Harbor? It took our Navy over 18 months to get its shit together. Then they got to work and crushed the worlds third largest navy and worlds strongest aircraft carrier navy in just over 3 1/2 years from the get go. From the mud and blood of Pearl Harbor to the Japanese surrendering on the decks of the USS Missouri. What has happened to our Navy is pretty much what happens to all institutions when there is too much politics and not enough sweat? Too much peace and not enough incentive to maintain a high level of alertness? Just what is our USN for anyhow? For show? Kinda like Mayberry. Or a fire department which has no fires. Cops with no arrests. I hope all of this is taken as a proper and CHEAP wakeup call by our very high politicians and military leaders. To keep our swords sharp you gotta use some elbow grease. And you better continue your sword fighting lessons less some little fast guy cuts you up into big pieces. Yikes! Work ethic and pride in service were a lot different back then. Men acted like men. Yep, now I'm thinking this shit is happening bcuz of Trumps LGBT community not welcome is the armed services Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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