Model number identification

[Craigf1974 6]

I have searched and didn’t find the answer I was looking for so I really hope I’m not making a duplicate post. I was wondering if there is a way to figure out what model I have. I just picked up this converted saiga and beyond knowing what year(09) and that I have a threaded 19in barrel, I don’t know much else. Would like to know what model it was if possible. Also why the import mark for raa is covered up on the right side under a rectangular laser engraving. It says Tgi Knox on the left. One last question would be serial number, what does the t at the end mean, I normally see letters at the beginning and not the end. Serial is H0942xxxxT. Thanks for your help in advance.

[Heartbreaker 1,085]

Do you have a picture of the whole gun?

[Craigf1974 6]

Here is the entire gun.

[Mullet Man 2,114]

Is the trigger guard riveted or screwed in place?

 

TGI finished the importation and distribution of a batch of Saigas. Not sure what the exact circumstances were that lead to it but somehow they took over for RAA. Lots of rifles ended up the same way, with the knurled "match striker" over RAA's info.

[Craigf1974 6]

Everything is riveted. It seems they welded up the unused holes, did a really nice job inside and out, can’t tell they were there.

[pedal2alloy 206]

With the left side charging handle, it looks like a pretty custom gun.  Especially if the right side of the dust cover is closed up, not clear in the picture and would be unusual.  Usually, you can see thru to the other side with those

[Craigf1974 6]

It has the lightning bolt. The cover and the carrier are both laser engraved with the lightning bolt logo and serial number. The guy I got it from said he sent the bolt off and had it done.

[pedal2alloy 206]

That was done by Cobra's Custom

 

I don't know if he is still doing that, his page hasn't had any updates for a while

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/90388-ak-saiga-vepr-reliability-service/

 

He was known to do excellent work and was an innovator with a lot of the S12 mods

[Craigf1974 6]

Cool, if they did the work they did a great job. One of the better conversions I’ve seen around here. I haven’t had a chance to shoot it yet but just charging it with snap caps it feels as smooth as my vepr. I did a ton of work on it to get it to cycle cheap stuff. The trigger on the saiga isn’t as good, it’s a arsenal set like I put in the vepr so I will do the same with it. Any idea on model number of this? I see others posting like iz-108, 109 and such, I can’t find anything that identifies what mine started life as.

[Lone Star Arms 2,047]

Aside from the importer marking, it looks like a Fime Group/K-Var iteration of a Saiga IZ-109. If there aren't any indications of anything being welded up, the the gun could have been imported in original, non-sporterized form.

 

Leaving the standard AK rail installed on the left side of the gun is a clear indication the gun is an amateur build because the rail is completely useless with a left hand charging handle, and just gets in the way.

 

Trigger looks Russian, although the hammer looks like it might be a Tapco G2. Pistol grip is Israeli. Handguard is from K-Var, sold as "US", but probably Com-block. Box Mag is ProMag, so I'm guessing there are cycling issues with low brass, or in general, but until you run the gun with an Izhmash factory 5 round, or SGM 8 round mag you won't know if it's the mag or the gun.

 

In current configuration the gun may or may not be 922® compliant.

[Craigf1974 6]

According to the guy I got it from, it was already converted, then he sent off the bolt and cover to lightning bolt and they modified it and sent it back. That is probably the reason the rail remained. He didn’t know much about the gun other than shooting it. It was a mess when I got it but the price was right. I spent a couple hours taking it apart and scrubbing it to look like this. The fcg is all arsenal according to the stamping on all 3 parts and looks like the same set I bought for my vepr. I got the original 5 rd mag, the pro mag 10 and a 15rd promag drum. Here is a picture of the engraving on the cover, the bot has same and same serial number lasered on it. I would like to find a Izhmash pistol grip, but I have struggled to locate one. The stock is a kvar nato length, the puck is css and the fcg is us so I should be 922r if I’m thinking right. I appreciate all the info and if anyone has anymore to add I would like to know. I have learned a lot from the forum and hopefully one day I will be able to contribute.

[Lone Star Arms 2,047]

Roger on the FCG. As Mullet Man pointed out, the gun was originally destined for RAA, and was then imported by TGI.

 

Converted guns with original FCG holes welded up will typically have telltale "nubs" left over inside the receiver.

 

It really doesn't matter whether your gun was imported as currently configured, or was converted from an imported sporterized gun after the fact. What matters is the way the gun performs. If it performs to expectations (and this is a relative consideration), and you are happy with the gun, you have a winner.

 

If it doesn't, it can most likely be modified.

[Craigf1974 6]

Thanks Mike. By the way, checked out your site and you do beautiful work. Amazing guns.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Converted IZ-109 and has Arsenal FCG. Radius behind axis pin is disturbed, evidence of blending welds. Looks like they were using a 4" or so sanding pad or thin kerf cutting disc on an angle grinder and not paying attention to where the left side of it was touching. I have seen far worse, so that actually looks pretty good. It takes a lot of finesse to use something like that and not disturb the radius on the lower edge of the receiver or leave waves in the side of the weapon. Most people will not notice it, but I am cursed with attention to detail. It can be very distracting.

 

 

[Craigf1974 6]

Thanks Evl, you pointed it out, I can definitely see where they ground the welds down. I appreciate the information. I know I will enjoy this one as much as my Vepr. I also appreciate business like you and Mike getting on helping us little guys out.

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

I am the little guy, just an enthusiast like everyone else here. I got here from not being able to afford to pay other people to work on my guns and was blessed with an eye for mechanical things. I like to help when I can. I think Mike and I are probably the most regular posting members. He has a pretty interesting story of how he arrived here as well.

[Machinist 150]

I am the little guy, just an enthusiast like everyone else here. I got here from not being able to afford to pay other people to work on my guns and was blessed with an eye for mechanical things. I like to help when I can. I think Mike and I are probably the most regular posting members. He has a pretty interesting story of how he arrived here as well.

Mike would you enlighten us with your history?

I have been a member and enjoyed watching Evl grow his business and knowledge.

[Lone Star Arms 2,047]

Sure Machinist. My background is originally in precious metals jewelry design and fabrication. Back in 2008, jewelers were getting robbed right and left on the road, and when I saw the S12 on display at my local gun shop, I knew I had to have it.

 

After my first trip to the range with the Saiga, I was really disappointed with the gun, and considered selling it in favor of coach gun or a pump, but I didn't. This was an honest to god AK action 12 gauge shotgun, I'd seen videos others had posted of this gun running like a scalded dog, and I was determined that mine would too.

 

So, I found my way here, and learned everything I could about the platform. Long story short, I was fortunate enough to have a shop full of professional tools and machinery, applied the knowledge I found here, along with knowledge acquired through trial, error, and experimentation on that first gun, and applied the skill set I had to that process.

 

I probably spent three months on that first build, and had that gun apart and back together more than a dozen times (and believe me, there were times I just wanted to chuck it out the window) - but brother, when I finally got it to that sweet spot, I knew it!  That shotgun was running everything I put through it like a sewing machine - it was exhilarating, and I was hooked! A year later, I'd rebuilt several guns, selling each one along the way so I could build the next one, and applied for an FFL. I've been building high performance AK platform shotguns ever since, and loving every minute of it

[Machinist 150]

Mike,

Thank you for taking the time to post your history into the Saiga world! Interesting journey from custom jeweller to

Saiga superstar.

[gunfun 3,931]

I was going to post if someone above hasn't that "AK lightning bolt" was a company about 4-5 years ago that was selling left side charging handle carriers as though they were a novel and proprietary innovation. IIRC they tried to patent the idea, which was funny given how many guns already had aftermarket charging handles of the type. They charged a lot more than Cobra, and included dust covers with the slot, rather than slotting out an existing dust cover. I didn't hear any complaints about how well they functioned, or breakage or anything like that. 

 

For the cost, there were a couple other companies doing stuff I liked more, such as making a proprietary non recip left side handle based on the FAL handle with a custom track, a longer stroke, and several other one off parts. Those were well made, and I would prefer them. Plus you could keep an enclosed receiver and your original right side handle for the ambi function. I don't remember the name of the company, but my cousin put one on his PAP with a few modifications or something like that.

That was done by Cobra's Custom

 

I don't know if he is still doing that, his page hasn't had any updates for a while

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/90388-ak-saiga-vepr-reliability-service/

 

He was known to do excellent work and was an innovator with a lot of the S12 mods

Nope. Not Cobra. He was one of the first if not the first to offer this service as a regular thing on it's own rather than an option as part of a complete build package.

[Lone Star Arms 2,047]

Mike,

Thank you for taking the time to post your history into the Saiga world! Interesting journey from custom jeweller to

Saiga superstar.

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Machinist. Truthfully, I don't think anyone is going to live up to that label, least of all me. 

 

I do feel really privileged to be a part of this community, and to have the opportunity to participate and contribute

 

Where else in the world are you going find Chili's red snapper recipes, and Evl's short barreled shotgun guides in the same space?

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

GunFun, I think that was the Linch charging handle. I wanted to fiddle with that but never got around to it.

 

Mike, seeing your builds run is what inspired me to begin with. I never saw the rest of it coming, but I'm glad to be here.