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JohnnyE

MD Arms ceases drum manufacturing and sales

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I just received this email from MD Arms. They have exited the Saiga 12 drum business. Is this a step toward preparing to offer double stack mags??

 

We wanted to let everybody be know that we will not be producing the MD-20 drum magazine anymore.  We thank everyone who has bought and enjoyed one!  What’s out there is it so think hard before you sell one...

 

We have also sold our entire remaining inventory.  The buyer has offered a $20 off each coupon to all of MD Arms’s past customers.  This discount will only be available for a limited time or limited quantity, which ever is reached first.   If you want another one for yourself or know someone that wants one now is the time.  When the remaining stock drys up that will be it for new in the package MD-20 magazines.  The MD-20 will know doubt start demanding a premium on its original retail price before long.   

 

You can view and purchase the remaining drums for sale at https://www.deguns.net/saiga-drum-858578003018-p/md-20.htm?CartID=1.

Don’t forget to enter your $20 off each discount code.  Just enter     in the coupon code field to receive it.

 

Thanks again everyone and we hope you had a very Merry Christmas!!!!

 

Mike Davidson

MD Arms, LTD

  Copyright © 2017 MD ARMS LTD, All rights reserved.
You are receiving this email because you are listed as a customer on our website...

Our mailing address is:
MD ARMS LTD
po box 237
CASSTOWNOhio 45312

 

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Hopefully he will continue to provide us with other innovative products. He's got skills.

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With the positive reports on the Kalashnikov USA Saiga-12 copies, their faithfulness to the Russian originals, and the ability to use the aftermarket parts designed for the Russian Saiga 12, I would think that Mike and the others are energized at the new market that is coming along.

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About the KS-12, I am energized. I'm getting sick of Vepr 12s. I know people seem to have this idea in their heads that the Vepr 12 is higher quality than the Saiga 12, but it is not. Sure, they look nice, but the reliability potential with a short barrel is just not there, for various reasons. Sure, some are fine, but many are not. If the KS-12 is internally an exact clone of the Saiga 12, I will be over the moon. It will have great short barrel reliability potential, just like the Saiga 12.

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About the KS-12, I am energized. I'm getting sick of Vepr 12s. I know people seem to have this idea in their heads that the Vepr 12 is higher quality than the Saiga 12, but it is not. Sure, they look nice, but the reliability potential with a short barrel is just not there, for various reasons. Sure, some are fine, but many are not. If the KS-12 is internally an exact clone of the Saiga 12, I will be over the moon. It will have great short barrel reliability potential, just like the Saiga 12.

 

I still have tons of trouble with my IZ-433 so it's good to know I'm not crazy over this.

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They are limited in regards to the range of loads that will run in them with no way to adjust the gas system. They look great though.

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They are limited in regards to the range of loads that will run in them with no way to adjust the gas system. They look great though.

 

Mine is choking up on hot ammo now but not as much on mid-range stuff. Does seem like a flawed platform.

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Do you have a buffer in it? What you are describing sounds like yours is slightly over gassed, and the carrier is rebounding off of the rear trunion.  Buffers can make that worse, or sometimes better, depending on the behavior of the specific gun.

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I don't think I have a buffer, as in I never installed one or paid to have one installed.

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They are limited in regards to the range of loads that will run in them with no way to adjust the gas system. They look great though.

 

Mine is choking up on hot ammo now but not as much on mid-range stuff. Does seem like a flawed platform.

 

Skip the hot ammo.

 

You might want to start a new thread for this.....

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It is true. We have no plans to manufacture anymore MD-20 drums. We just sold our remaining stock. That stock came from the last run of drum made just after SandyHook. The market never recovered before the santctions were placed in 2014.

 

The KS-12 has potential but an exact clone of the Russian design was a big mistake on their part. The gas system of the Saiga-12 is severely flawed, just not as much as the Vepr and 433... It’s sad really because the KS-12 could have address all that out of the gate. Maybe they lacked the understanding of the system to improve it I thought. So I contacted them and offered free of charge to help them make a few simple changes to the design. I offered them the V-Plug design but in the format I wish I could have made it in for the Saiga-12. The KS-12 could easily have a much better gas system than possible with the stock Saiga-12 because the KS-12 could have the start/stop position of the gas block threads the same on every gun. They could also make those threads concentric to the chamber opening instead of off set to one side or the other. I could have given them a gas plug design that would be much more efficient than the V-Plug could be in the Saiga. It would have also kept the threads clean of fouling too. Might have added .50 or $1.00 to the manufacturing cost they have on the KS-12 now. I heard crickets in response. It’s a shame. Bottom line is if the KS-12 cloned the gas system they cloned in all the problems too. Over gassed with most high power ammo (weather realized or not) and struggling with low power ammo (realized or not)... I don’t think the KS-12 will be as well accepted as it could be because it carries basically the stigma handed down by the Saiga-12. I tried to tell a couple different people at K-USA that that stigma needed squashed and fast. Some understood but the ones there that make those decisions didn’t even bother to comment or respond. The Saiga-12 never reached a fraction of its full potential because the vast majority of people aren’t willing to roll the dice on getting a “good” gun or “bad” gun. The vast majority aren’t willing to by a 6, 7 or 8 hundred dollar gun and first thing get tools out and start working on it. I don’t blame them a bit either. The KS-12 will never reach its full potential either as long as it carries it’s dad’s name. And as long as the leadership fail to see the issue or understand the customer base... Oh well. You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them drink...

 

Anyways... Thanks again everyone for supporting the MD-20 and MD Arms. I want to assure you we aren’t going anywhere and good things are in the works.

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Mike,

 

I bought my last drum for my S17, really I'm a drum & magazine whore!!  Thanks Mike for making such a great product for the Saiga community!

 

 

Thanks,

Mike

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Mike, I offered to give Geissele a perfected version of the ALG AKT trigger for use in shotguns and they abandoned the project instead. I didn't even want it back. The rub for them was probably that I wanted to be mentioned as 'helping' with the development. The original hammer profile was all wrong for shotgun use. I heard they were working on it and thought 'what the F are they working on? ridiculous'. In two hours I had one in a Vepr 12 with a shotgun friendly profile and was shooting video firing it with weak loads reliably. 20 minutes of that was driving to the range, lol. All they had to do was copy it. Giving up seemed to make better sense to them I suppose. I just wanted to be able to buy an off the shelf trigger that was ready to use in builds and needed nothing but maybe some light polishing. I understand. I think they ignore an idea simply because they didn't come up with it. If someone wants to do all of the work to refine and develop an idea and then give it to me for free, I definitely want to at least see it, lol.

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Yeah, I even offered to go to Florida for a few days to sit down with their engineers to go over everything. I can’t wrap my mind around not even being willing to take a look. I know of a guy that did tree work for a living. He wanted a drum magazine for his shotgun really bad. He tried to talk a few different companies into making one. He even told them he would help with the design of the drum and that he just wanted the opportunity to buy some. Crickets from most. One company that had recently put out a aftermarket stick mag said they would do it. After a short bit they said they couldn’t do it and called the project off. So the tree climber came down out of the tree and did it himself...

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I suppose that makes my hope for the DS mags wasted. 

 

Thanks for making a fine product. Good fortune to your future endeavors.

 

My expectation is that now that Rem has a stick mag 870, the demand for mag fed shogtun stuff in general will skyrocket, and magpul will probably get OEM on something.

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...

Anyways... Thanks again everyone for supporting the MD-20 and MD Arms. I want to assure you we aren’t going anywhere and good things are in the works.

You TEASE!

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To "good things" then. At least we know when you say "good things" it won't be some BS attempt at offering a product. It will indeed be good ;)

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It’s just a matter of time for detachable magfed shotguns to becoming the norm and carve a huge and likely a majority chunk out of the shotgun market. It’s just a matter of time for double stack mags to be widely available. I also have a patent pending on a new magazine design that will further change everything to add some tickle to the tease for Johnny! Sadly though neither look likely for my favorite shotgun, the Saiga-12. Who knows what new and exciting shotgun designs will come though. Maybe a new favorite will appear. It would be awesome to design a good one. I think I would go straight to the beltfed design in my head though and skip mags all together, lol!!!!

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It’s just a matter of time for detachable magfed shotguns to becoming the norm and carve a huge and likely a majority chunk out of the shotgun market. It’s just a matter of time for double stack mags to be widely available. I also have a patent pending on a new magazine design that will further change everything to add some tickle to the tease for Johnny! Sadly though neither look likely for my favorite shotgun, the Saiga-12. Who knows what new and exciting shotgun designs will come though. Maybe a new favorite will appear. It would be awesome to design a good one. I think I would go straight to the beltfed design in my head though and skip mags all together, lol!!!!

STOP IT! Now it's a gun porn thread.

 

IDK about a better designed mag fed shotgun coming along and dominating the market. Technology does not always rule the day. I am old enough to remember the Beta vs. VHS videotape format war. Beta was better, VHS won.

 

I don't need Miss America to be happy...just a handful of DS mags to keep my drums company 000.gif

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Things look like they may get a little easier for me in regards to operating the pool company and I hope to have time to act on ideas that have been rattling around in my head for a while. If I am fortunate enough to get where I want to go, I won't be working on other people's guns anymore. I'll just demo guns for a living ;)

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whhat was the coupon code???! 

 

im stoked about new products, but imho, they wont ( box mag guns)  catuch on until they decrease hunting capacity restrictions, its an archaic rule anyways no?

 

as far as vepr vs saiga,  i  just like that the vepr is original from factory with pg in correct place, correct sights, lrbho, good ak style handguards, regular gas tube, prettier finish, magwell.  

 

now, i dont thinkg about the shorties much, but wouldnt your  gas block fix that prob with the vepr?

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More people are buying guns for tactical and defensive oriented recreational reasons than for hunting reasons, and by much bigger numbers. IMO hunting regs won't be the primary market drivers. KSGs don't exist and sell because of hunters.

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+1 Much more recreational shooting is happening than hunting.

 

Were you asking me about the gas block? If so, everyone welched when it was time to pony up and do the production run on the Molot Custom Shop clone gas block, so I scrapped it.

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I am interested in that, but not in the market any time soon.

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+1 Much more recreational shooting is happening than hunting.

 

Were you asking me about the gas block? If so, everyone welched when it was time to pony up and do the production run on the Molot Custom Shop clone gas block, so I scrapped it.

daaaaaaaam! so much welching in the community,  and butt hurt "i dont want this product"  whining, like over that new 9mm ak that century importing. 

 

is there a meme or gif etc for folks that cry when folks didnt bring "XYZ" to market and instead brought "PAK"?

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What disturbed me was the length that I went to in an effort to avoid wasting more of my time and more of the mfg's time. A recap...

 

Readers are Leaders, Reading is FUNdamental, etc. You get the picture.... read.

 

...

 

Extremely important regarding commitment, payment, and start date of production: Be totally sure you want to commit to buy and do not welch. If you back out or drag your feet sending the funds it could delay the production start date and affect any expected quantity discount that I am able to pass on to those who are serious and prompt. Payment will be expected by September 7, 2016 at the latest or 14 days after the preorder opportunity is closed early. Feedback may be left in this thread for welchers. Don't do it, I want this to be smooth.

 

 

Onward, I didn't leave feedback in the thread for all of the welchers. At that point, plenty of time had already been wasted trying to offer something special to the community. I concluded that the word of the community as a whole was worthless or the reading comprehension deficit was far greater than I ever imagined. I have a long list of things to offer the firearm community and some things for BMW enthusiasts, but it won't happen like that again.

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What disturbed me was the length that I went to in an effort to avoid wasting more of my time and more of the mfg's time. A recap...

 

Readers are Leaders, Reading is FUNdamental, etc. You get the picture.... read.

 

...

 

Extremely important regarding commitment, payment, and start date of production: Be totally sure you want to commit to buy and do not welch. If you back out or drag your feet sending the funds it could delay the production start date and affect any expected quantity discount that I am able to pass on to those who are serious and prompt. Payment will be expected by September 7, 2016 at the latest or 14 days after the preorder opportunity is closed early. Feedback may be left in this thread for welchers. Don't do it, I want this to be smooth.

 

 

Onward, I didn't leave feedback in the thread for all of the welchers. At that point, plenty of time had already been wasted trying to offer something special to the community. I concluded that the word of the community as a whole was worthless or the reading comprehension deficit was far greater than I ever imagined. I have a long list of things to offer the firearm community and some things for BMW enthusiasts, but it won't happen like that again.

 

Sorry about the welchers bro.  Did you have a schematic drawing of it?  I didn't know about it.  Now I'm curious about what it was

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What disturbed me was the length that I went to in an effort to avoid wasting more of my time and more of the mfg's time. A recap...

 

Readers are Leaders, Reading is FUNdamental, etc. You get the picture.... read.

 

...

 

Extremely important regarding commitment, payment, and start date of production: Be totally sure you want to commit to buy and do not welch. If you back out or drag your feet sending the funds it could delay the production start date and affect any expected quantity discount that I am able to pass on to those who are serious and prompt. Payment will be expected by September 7, 2016 at the latest or 14 days after the preorder opportunity is closed early. Feedback may be left in this thread for welchers. Don't do it, I want this to be smooth.

 

 

 

 

Onward, I didn't leave feedback in the thread for all of the welchers. At that point, plenty of time had already been wasted trying to offer something special to the community. I concluded that the word of the community as a whole was worthless or the reading comprehension deficit was far greater than I ever imagined. I have a long list of things to offer the firearm community and some things for BMW enthusiasts, but it won't happen like that again.

 

Can you email me detailed drawings of the gas block you designed, maybe include heat treatment and material specs?

I promise you I'll only machine one assembly for personal use! Pretty please! I asked really nice!

 

That's a shame the people on the forum stood you up after committing to support your project.

 

On a serious note I'm softening up the wife to send you an unmolested S12 for you short barrelled work.

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