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Mossberg mag-fed pump and doublestack mag

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50206_590M_MagFed_TriRail.jpg

 

Mossberg-590m-magazines.jpg

 

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/01/22/mossberg-double-stack-590m/

 

And later this week, we will have an exclusive interview with Michael Davidson, the inventor and patent holder for the world’s first production double-stack shotgun magazine as part of TFB’s ‘Innovator Series’. Stay tuned.

WOAH! This blows everything out of the water! Remington's shotgun is outclassed immediately. Alright Mike, is this the big project you were working on? Are those mags compatible with a Saiga 12?

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Yeah, the 870 DM is obsolete before it ever started shipping. I actually feel bad for them.

Check out this article! http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/01/22/mossberg-double-stack-590m/

Sadly they aren’t Saiga-12 comparable.

It looks like it would only require a new feed tower and maybe a follower? C'mon, don't leave us hanging!

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Congrats to you Mike... Three cheers for a successful product... Hoozah!  Hoozah!  Hoozah!

 

You've come a long, long, long ways, and you deserve all the recognition and profits due to you.

Edited by ChileRelleno
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Very interesting..these are what we need for s-12/v-12/ks12. And the feed towers bolt on?? Some one could make 2 feed towers..1 compatible with s-12/ks-12/black aces. and one for v-12/s-12 030 type. Please take our money!!! Looks like all the hard work is done and would require minimal investment (compared to a full mag body, springs etc.) and materials and if you already have a follwer design than 2/3 of the battle is already won.

Edited by Veprz

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I wish they would go to the Saiga-12 and other too. They can only produce them for the Mossberg name though and they have a exclusive for their name. Also if someone else made a tower for a different gun it would be infringement and those with the license has a right to defend the patent. It wouldn’t be wise for someone to try. Give it time though. The flood gates are just now bursting...

Mossberg put a video out. I wish they would have done more shooting in it.

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But how is it not standard on the 2018 930 JM or whatever?

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I’m off!!! Planes pulling out now. Taking off for Vegas to witness the market reaction first hand at Shot Show! Wish me luck!!!

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I wish they would go to the Saiga-12 and other too. They can only produce them for the Mossberg name though and they have a exclusive for their name. Also if someone else made a tower for a different gun it would be infringement and those with the license has a right to defend the patent. It wouldn’t be wise for someone to try. Give it time though. The flood gates are just now bursting...Mossberg put a video out. I wish they would have done more shooting in it.

You've been teasing double stacks for years, and now they come out but with no plans for our favorite platform?

why.jpg

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I know. I am really sorry. Maybe things will change. I’m afraid I would have to charge too much to make the saturated and stagnate Saiga-12 market worth producing the tools.

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I’m off!!! Planes pulling out now. Taking off for Vegas to witness the market reaction first hand at Shot Show! Wish me luck!!!

 

When you get there, can you kick Wayne LaPierre and team in the nuts for me?

I wish they would go to the Saiga-12 and other too. They can only produce them for the Mossberg name though and they have a exclusive for their name. Also if someone else made a tower for a different gun it would be infringement and those with the license has a right to defend the patent. It wouldn’t be wise for someone to try. Give it time though. The flood gates are just now bursting...

Mossberg put a video out. I wish they would have done more shooting in it.

 

I am sure there will be better videos than Mossy's in no time. Official videos are the most ignorable.

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I would have liked to see them be straight insert, but I would definitely prefer this over the 870


Now for the inevitable birdshead grip and chainsaw pump handle.

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Double stack mags and theyre for a pump!!!!! Mossberg chainsaw birdhead wtf! Mossberg Jello heads couldve used the damn s-12 pattern and used all existing mags + the double stacks + the md drum. Then the mags couldve been sold to s12/v12/ks12/black aces and these birdheads. Wow. Unless you just really want a mag fed pump (judging by the reaction to remingtons mag fed 870 even before this announcement) its not looking good. A reliable semi thats geared for battle (not geese hunting) now youre talking. Unfortunately mossberg doesnt make a product that fits that description. They cant even make a reliable battle ready semi in the traditional configuration..how are they going use the full potential of a double stack 12g mag? They might as well just made a belt fed bolt action (after the damn chainsaw, I would put it past them).

 

Im not a lawyer but I cant see why a company would sue someone who makes an aftermarket accessory (s-12 feed tower) that will result in them selling more mags? Which Im sure are not going to be inexpensive. But they would rather greatly reduce the potential number of mags sold by limiting them to an EXTREMELY small audience? I mean, youd have to buy the damn mossberg mag first to add the aftermarket feed tower! Thats like izmash suing md arms for coming up with the drum that made their s-12 even more popular and no doubt resulted in more sales of s-12's?? Chevy suing edelbrock for making performance parts that ultimately make them more popular?? Im not understanding this logic. Either way birdhead mossberg gets the damn biggest chunk when the mag is bought to be later modified.

 

S&W you make a fire arm that looks interesting but the trigger is trash? No thank you..oh wait apex makes a aftermarket trigger that fixes your f**k up? Ok Ill buy your pistol with garbage trigger and order the apex trigger and end up with one functional firearm that fits my needs. you were unable to provide that without apex's aftermarket support and wouldve lost the sale.

Edited by Veprz

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But how is it not standard on the 2018 930 JM or whatever?

Not reliable enough? I havent heard great things about the 930's reliability. If you cant make a reliable pump then its time to throw in the towel.

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They load surprisingly well on a closed bolt. Less bolt interference. That will also reduce the chance for shell deformation of the top round on a closed bolt. Haven’t tested that myself yet.

 

The reason they wouldn’t want people making them for different guns is they want to sell their own gun and mags for it and not mags for someone else’s gun is my guess. It’s not like the drum to Saiga comparison. Someone making double stack towers for a different gun could make their gun less popular. Only speculating though.

 

This is just the beginning though. It may take a few years but this will change the entire market. So many designers will now view their locked away shotgun design as feasible if a double stack design is available. I can’t wait to see all the badass shotgun designs that come; pump, semi, fullauto, bullpup...

 

The 930 is semi and not pump, also...

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I know, I was saying they probably went with the 590 pump because it will be more reliable, rather then the 930 semi which could have (based on their reputation) made the whole doublestack idea look bad if they were constantly choking (due to the 930 not the mag). Im sure your mags are going to perform.

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This doesn't totally work with my very short term plans, but it may work for my very long term plan. I'll take what I can get. Well done, Mike!

 

I'm so glad it was Mossberg and not Remington. Mossberg has a 10 year warranty on pump action shotguns while Remington has a dirtbag 1 year warranty from the manufacture date that I believe is designed to screw the customer into never getting any service. I don't feel bad for them, at all.

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They load surprisingly well on a closed bolt. Less bolt interference. That will also reduce the chance for shell deformation of the top round on a closed bolt. Haven’t tested that myself yet.

 

The reason they wouldn’t want people making them for different guns is they want to sell their own gun and mags for it and not mags for someone else’s gun is my guess. It’s not like the drum to Saiga comparison. Someone making double stack towers for a different gun could make their gun less popular. Only speculating though.

 

This is just the beginning though. It may take a few years but this will change the entire market. So many designers will now view their locked away shotgun design as feasible if a double stack design is available. I can’t wait to see all the badass shotgun designs that come; pump, semi, fullauto, bullpup...

 

The 930 is semi and not pump, also...

 

I hope you got a good payouot on this. How long do you have to recoup your patent expenses before expiry?

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The feed tower being seperate (as far as I can tell) is ingenius. This is just an opinion looking in from the outside,but I think I would have retained the rights to the doublestack design and devolped personally feed towers for any platform that could or would use them. Then you could sell doublestacks for S-12/V-12/KS-12/blackaces/remington/mossberg/mka1919/ddi12/cheetah/lynx/ar-10 designs etc etc..all with just changing the feed tower and maybe follower.

 

This whole mossberg pump only thing makes me think of putting a 1000hp capable transmission in a 3cyl geo. It just doesnt make sense to me, and seems like a waste of a great design. Not to mention lost sales.

 

Im still having a hard time understanding how or why they would sue an aftermarket feed tower manufacturer. I mean look at all the firearms that take glock mags. Does hi-point have to pay licensing fees to glock? Keltec? All the ar companies? Chiappa pak-9? Polymer-80? Lonewolf? You would still need to buy the mossberg mag to be able to switch the tower out.

 

On another note..looking at the pics it looks like they used some quality polymer.

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It’s because they have a patent on the switchable tower for one. Another is the tower area has all the double stack patent tech in it. Basically it is the double stack. If someone makes them they are actually infringing on two different patents.

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That's why big corporation have expensive patent attorneys. TO lock others out as firmly as possible...until the patent runs out.

 

It's a nice idea, and looks very well thought out. Too bad they installed it in a pump.

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Has anyone seen the Franklin Armory not-an-sbr? It uses a straight lands and grooves barrel to get around the definitions of rifled or smoothbore because it doesn't count as either, and it doesn't count as a pistol because it's over 26". Mossberg needs to make a 590M with the same type of grooves with a 14" barrel and a stock. That's the perfect application of a detachable mag shotgun.

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The feed tower being seperate (as far as I can tell) is ingenius. This is just an opinion looking in from the outside,but I think I would have retained the rights to the doublestack design and devolped personally feed towers for any platform that could or would use them. Then you could sell doublestacks for S-12/V-12/KS-12/blackaces/remington/mossberg/mka1919/ddi12/cheetah/lynx/ar-10 designs etc etc..all with just changing the feed tower and maybe follower.

 

This whole mossberg pump only thing makes me think of putting a 1000hp capable transmission in a 3cyl geo. It just doesnt make sense to me, and seems like a waste of a great design. Not to mention lost sales.

 

Im still having a hard time understanding how or why they would sue an aftermarket feed tower manufacturer. I mean look at all the firearms that take glock mags. Does hi-point have to pay licensing fees to glock? Keltec? All the ar companies? Chiappa pak-9? Polymer-80? Lonewolf? You would still need to buy the mossberg mag to be able to switch the tower out.

 

On another note..looking at the pics it looks like they used some quality polymer.

 

Nothing about the glock magwell is unique new or in any way covered by a viable patent.

 

This mossy mag has some fins on it to stabilize it and get it up higher. My first thought was that they could have just had the mag stick in higher or shaved the side of the receivers and relied on the front surface of the magwell for longitudinal locaton, and the sides for lateral stabilization. I think those exist not because they were the cleanest way to accomplish the task of getting the feed presentation high enough and the mag located and supported. I think they exist to be unique....

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It’s because they have a patent on the switchable tower for one. Another is the tower area has all the double stack patent tech in it. Basically it is the double stack. If someone makes them they are actually infringing on two different patents.

 

That makes more sense, they had to develop a attachment system within the reciever as well. I can definetly understand them wanting to protect that, otherwise every pump shotgun manufacturer would just copy it and release a mag fed pump.

 

And the secret to the doublestack is how you allow 2 columns to feed into one reliably. Which is within the detachable feed tower portion of the design.

 

I wonder how many .410 could fit in a 12g 20rnd body? And I wouldnt be suprised if see a .410 using the same body different follower/feed tower.

Edited by Veprz

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I know. I am really sorry. Maybe things will change. I’m afraid I would have to charge too much to make the saturated and stagnate Saiga-12 market worth producing the tools.

couldnt you do it with metal instead of plastic, then twouldnt have mould cost?  the mashup with csspecs yielded no favorable for kalashnikov pattern results?

 

i read the first bit of the article on tuesday "...double stack...."  and i didnt even finish article i ran over here to start reading and you guys already talking about it hahahah...

 

what about modding our current guns to run these?  or a ks12 instaed of not our nice russki stuff?

Im not a lawyer but I cant see why a company would sue someone who makes an aftermarket accessory (s-12 feed tower) that will result in them selling more mags?

 you must (legally) defend your intellectual property otherwise the patent risks abandonment or some such.....

Edited by saltydecimator

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It’s because they have a patent on the switchable tower for one. Another is the tower area has all the double stack patent tech in it. Basically it is the double stack. If someone makes them they are actually infringing on two different patents.

so when are we and what kinda gory details can you give us?  i see TFBlog says they are gonna have an interview with you published soonish but i wanna know all the inbetween stuff..... so mossberg patented tower and you patented mag, isnt that kinda muddy?  you get a royalty, flat fee etc hahaha

 

but if a guy was just to build a tower for his own personal use how does that work??

 

i really like those engagement lugs on the mossy receiver, seems well thought out....

 

and +1 vs remington, big corporate schmucks gonna go bankrupt and could bury a good product cause they corporately derp

 

im not a pump guy, but ill get one eventually, prob in hte (eventual) short config, cause why have all them extra inches out there, hahaha

Has anyone seen the Franklin Armory not-an-sbr? It uses a straight lands and grooves barrel to get around the definitions of rifled or smoothbore because it doesn't count as either, and it doesn't count as a pistol because it's over 26". Mossberg needs to make a 590M with the same type of grooves with a 14" barrel and a stock. That's the perfect application of a detachable mag shotgun.

i htink you in DD territory (over .500"") then though.... really any barrel length could be used then though, i think...

 

we will see something like this eventually, Mike keeps saying floodgates so before long its gonna get real cool! 

 

Huzzah  for trump being elected so now we can stop buying Ars only and get some new stuff, hahahha

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