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Heartbreaker

Mossberg mag-fed pump and doublestack mag

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If the spare mags weren't $100+ I would be tempted to buy one and see if I could mod it to work with a Saiga 12.

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I can only say so much about the deal. I need to make sure I don’t say too much. I’m under contract. I’ll figure out what I can and can’t say and give more details.

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I know. I am really sorry. Maybe things will change. I’m afraid I would have to charge too much to make the saturated and stagnate Saiga-12 market worth producing the tools.

 

couldnt you do it with metal instead of plastic, then twouldnt have mould cost? the mashup with csspecs yielded no favorable for kalashnikov pattern results?

 

i read the first bit of the article on tuesday "...double stack...." and i didnt even finish article i ran over here to start reading and you guys already talking about it hahahah...

 

what about modding our current guns to run these? or a ks12 instaed of not our nice russki stuff?

I think you might be on to something..mod the mag or the gun itself.

 

Damn I wish CSSPECS and Mike couldve worked something out.

So Mike how did this all come about? Was mossberg watching the saigas?

 

How about this for a comprimise? Mossberg develop a semi that takes the best parts of the S-12 then uses the gas system you designed (mentioned in the md-20 thread) and design it to use these existing double stacks?? That could be a win win. Dont they already make a .22 ak?

 

Theres just something not right about a tube mag gun redesigned for box mags (590/930). They need a box mag fed design from the get go. I dont like how alot of tube fed semis use orings and wear parts in their system. We need something strong and reliable with minimal parts..basically a S-12. Address the weakness in the carrier design, and redesign the gas block/plug and everything would be great! With quality control it could run hard right of the box and that would be a success. A magwell and magwell compatible feed tower would seal the deal. The action is already proven and designed, the trigger components are ready to go. Use forged components and its a win.

 

Mossberg, make it and take my money!

Then make a short barreled, braced, "firearm" version and Ill buy another one + mags.

 

Then if you play your cards right you can become the new standard. Sell it to millitary/leo etc..(who probably shyed away from the previous Kalashnikov shotgun designs due to country of manufacture).

 

The Bennelli is nice but again its tube fed, expensive and foriegn.

Edited by Veprz
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Ya know the only thing I hope for right now?

I hope Mike made himself a really nice profit selling his hard work.

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Ya know the only thing I hope for right now?

I hope Mike made himself a really nice profit selling his hard work.

true, but not too much that he goes all "trust fund spazzoid" on us and never comes up with anything to upstage himself.... winning is what keeps us motivated, but too much winning too soon sometimes ruins a man.  hears to hoping promag doesnt copy this somehow and f it all up like (most) everything else they do....

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They used it on a pump!?!?

 

Is it possible they tried it on the 930 and the magazine couldn't keep up. But with a pump you don't have to have your magazine present the Shell as fast.

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Ya know the only thing I hope for right now?

I hope Mike made himself a really nice profit selling his hard work.

ChileRelleno

08 May 2011

Wow... One year and nine months later, and still no doublestacks.

And now the S12 doublestack gets bitch slapped back to the end of the line.

 

 

:booo:

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/44279-double-stack-12ga-magazine-for-saiga-12/page-11

Post #315

 

Sounds good, but 7yrs ago you were hoping for the doublestacks. You even booed him.

Hmm

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LMAO,

do you hold a grudge, cause I sure don't?

I never bore Mike any ill will, and if you read that into my posts in that thread then you're an  idiot.

 

Thoughts change a lot over 6-7 years, especially when politics make firearm a very poor bet to continue to R&D mags for.

Mike has to make final decisions as a businessman not just an inventor/manufacturer.

I know why he has taken the road he has, I accept it and applaud it now.

Mike is looking at being a true ground breaker in the shotgun world.

 

You think that feelings were excitable then, shit, you should've seen what it was like when Mike was R&Ding the MD20.

Myself like a lot of people were chomping at the bit for doublestacks, easy to get dismayed and spout off.

The S12 was alive and well back then, not like now, we hoped for a lot from Mike.

Edited by ChileRelleno
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Ya know the only thing I hope for right now?

I hope Mike made himself a really nice profit selling his hard work.

 

I doubt if they needed his work so much as they found it difficult or impossible to design around his patent.

 

 

They used it on a pump!?!?

 

Is it possible they tried it on the 930 and the magazine couldn't keep up. But with a pump you don't have to have your magazine present the Shell as fast.

 

Why not?  If Mossberg owns the patent now, or have at least licensed exclusive rights, it isn't like somebody else will be able to come along and beat them to the punch by putting it on a semi.  And if the semi were available first, most buyers would likely bypass the pump and go straight to the semi.  This way, they can sell detachable doublestack pumps for a year or two, and then when they come out with the semi version, sell a bunch of those to people who already bought the pump.  End result, Mossie sells more doublestack shotguns overall, maintaining that volume over a longer period of time.  Both things that are desirable for profitable manufacturing.

 

Edit to add; plus they already one-upped Remington's detachable mag pump.  If Big Green comes out with a detachable mag semi, they are positioned to do the same thing to them all over again.

Edited by Netpackrat
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LMAO,

do you hold a grudge, cause I sure don't?

I never bore Mike any ill will, and if you read that into my posts in that thread then you're an idiot.

 

Thoughts change a lot over 6-7 years, especially when politics make firearm a very poor bet to continue to R&D mags for.

Mike has to make final decisions as a businessman not just an inventor/manufacturer.

I know why he has taken the road he has, I accept it and applaud it now.

Mike is looking at being a true ground breaker in the shotgun world.

 

You think that feelings were excitable then, shit, you should've seen what it was like when Mike was R&Ding the MD20.

Myself like a lot of people were chomping at the bit for doublestacks, easy to get dismayed and spout off.

The S12 was alive and well back then, not like now, we hoped for a lot from Mike.

Yes I know, I was here for all of that and more.

 

Its not about a grudge its about you commenting like you are shaming people for being disappointed about waiting 9+yrs for doublestacks only for them to finally come out for a pump shotgun. While when we look back just "one year and nine months" from the announcement, you were already upset to the point of booing him.

 

If mike didnt make a healthy profit on this then he is the idiot. But to be honest here he couldve made so much more profit by making them himself and offering feed towers for every shotgun that accepts box mags. S12/V12/KS12/ddi12/cheetah/lynx/ar10/MKA1919/mossberg/remingtons mag fed..etc etc. He couldve tapped into all of those markets by retaining the rights and just developing different feed towers/followers for each of those applications. Like how mecgar makes and sells their own mags but also supplies mags to oems that come with their guns from the factory, with different branding.

 

I dont believe anyone here doesnt wish mike success or that he doesnt get what hes earned. He's the only one who has pulled of the doublestack 12g mag.

 

Ya know the only thing I hope for right now?

I hope Mike made himself a really nice profit selling his hard work.

 

I doubt if they needed his work so much as they found it difficult or impossible to design around his patent.

 

 

They used it on a pump!?!?

Is it possible they tried it on the 930 and the magazine couldn't keep up. But with a pump you don't have to have your magazine present the Shell as fast.

 

Why not? If Mossberg owns the patent now, or have at least licensed exclusive rights, it isn't like somebody else will be able to come along and beat them to the punch by putting it on a semi. And if the semi were available first, most buyers would likely bypass the pump and go straight to the semi. This way, they can sell detachable doublestack pumps for a year or two, and then when they come out with the semi version, sell a bunch of those to people who already bought the pump. End result, Mossie sells more doublestack shotguns overall, maintaining that volume over a longer period of time. Both things that are desirable for profitable manufacturing.

 

Edit to add; plus they already one-upped Remington's detachable mag pump. If Big Green comes out with a detachable mag semi, they are positioned to do the same thing to them all over again.

Good points. Your first point is the reason why I think the ball was always in mikes court and he couldve named any terms he wanted. Including that he retain the rigjt to manufacture them for any platform. If mossberg really wanted doublestacks then they would have no choice but to comply. Edited by Veprz

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LMAO,

do you hold a grudge, cause I sure don't?

I never bore Mike any ill will, and if you read that into my posts in that thread then you're an idiot.

 

Thoughts change a lot over 6-7 years, especially when politics make firearm a very poor bet to continue to R&D mags for.

Mike has to make final decisions as a businessman not just an inventor/manufacturer.

I know why he has taken the road he has, I accept it and applaud it now.

Mike is looking at being a true ground breaker in the shotgun world.

 

You think that feelings were excitable then, shit, you should've seen what it was like when Mike was R&Ding the MD20.

Myself like a lot of people were chomping at the bit for doublestacks, easy to get dismayed and spout off.

The S12 was alive and well back then, not like now, we hoped for a lot from Mike.

 

 its about you commenting like you are shaming people for being disappointed

LMAO, now I've been shaming people in this thread?  What're you smoking?

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"shaming" is a snowflake Liberal concept. I'm a little shocked to see it used to attack a member here.

I didn't read anything like shaming in Chile's post.

I thought there were no snowflakes here.....

You may want to reconsider accusing someone of shaming, lest you be accused of (or outed) being a snowflake

 

If it walks like a duck....

Edited by patriot
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Guys, let’s not get worked up now. We are just now entering a golden age of tactical/offensive/defensive shotgun evolution/revolution. It is awesome we will get to witness it. Firearm evolution has been fairly stagnant for awhile now so this should be exciting and happy times for all of us. Let’s look to the future together.

 

I do deserve blame and shame for not getting it out for the Saiga-12. Everything from internal issues to multiple import scares and multiple political scares stopped me over and over. I do wish I knew then what I know now because the double stacks for the Saiga-12 would have been dominating since sometime in 2010. I have a great guilt that I didn’t fix the issue of so many junk ass mag options for the platform. The double stack would have crushed them like bugs... I can’t get those years back though. Maybe things will change... Maybe enough will come in from the current deal that I say screw it and make them just because the Saiga-12 and it’s users deserve them. The Saiga-12 is still by far my favorite shotgun in the world and in my opinion the most capable by far.

 

To clear things up though I retain the rights and control of the patent. The only thing I can’t do is give someone else the right to manufacture them for Mossberg platforms, including myself. Also they only have the right to manufacture them for a platform with their name. Everything else is wide open and a possibility.

 

By signing this deal it brought the double stack to life in a commercial form. It will prove to everyone that yes it is very possible and yes it is very reliable. I heard they fired a pallet of ammo at Range day and didn’t have a single issue not associated with user error like short stroking the pump.

 

The reps at Shot were telling people they plan to have a 930 version ready within a year that will take the same exact mags as the 590M. I can’t confirm/deny that myself though.

 

I will tell you that I spoke to many major manufactures and all but one were very interested in their own platform/platforms with double stacks. The one that wasn’t interested called me yesterday with a totally different tune also, lol... That doesn’t mean every last one will produce a platform or platforms usin it. It also takes the big companies time to work through all their hoops they have to jump through too. That’s not to mention all the awesome shotgun designs that people and companies have shelved over the years because there wasn’t a truly practical way to feed them.

 

I’ll also tell you that I have a new patent pending that will even further change the game and practicality for this class of shotguns... I do love shotguns, and all other firearms, and plan to enhance them for all of us as much as I possibly can during my stay on this rock in the void...

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Mike, well done and congrats.  I will wait for a semi-auto version, hopefully your mags will fit that.  Very happy for you!

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Guys, let’s not get worked up now. We are just now entering a golden age of tactical/offensive/defensive shotgun evolution/revolution. It is awesome we will get to witness it. Firearm evolution has been fairly stagnant for awhile now so this should be exciting and happy times for all of us. Let’s look to the future together.

 

I do deserve blame and shame for not getting it out for the Saiga-12. Everything from internal issues to multiple import scares and multiple political scares stopped me over and over. I do wish I knew then what I know now because the double stacks for the Saiga-12 would have been dominating since sometime in 2010. I have a great guilt that I didn’t fix the issue of so many junk ass mag options for the platform. The double stack would have crushed them like bugs... I can’t get those years back though. Maybe things will change... Maybe enough will come in from the current deal that I say screw it and make them just because the Saiga-12 and it’s users deserve them. The Saiga-12 is still by far my favorite shotgun in the world and in my opinion the most capable by far.

 

To clear things up though I retain the rights and control of the patent. The only thing I can’t do is give someone else the right to manufacture them for Mossberg platforms, including myself. Also they only have the right to manufacture them for a platform with their name. Everything else is wide open and a possibility.

 

By signing this deal it brought the double stack to life in a commercial form. It will prove to everyone that yes it is very possible and yes it is very reliable. I heard they fired a pallet of ammo at Range day and didn’t have a single issue not associated with user error like short stroking the pump.

 

The reps at Shot were telling people they plan to have a 930 version ready within a year that will take the same exact mags as the 590M. I can’t confirm/deny that myself though.

 

I will tell you that I spoke to many major manufactures and all but one were very interested in their own platform/platforms with double stacks. The one that wasn’t interested called me yesterday with a totally different tune also, lol... That doesn’t mean every last one will produce a platform or platforms usin it. It also takes the big companies time to work through all their hoops they have to jump through too. That’s not to mention all the awesome shotgun designs that people and companies have shelved over the years because there wasn’t a truly practical way to feed them.

 

I’ll also tell you that I have a new patent pending that will even further change the game and practicality for this class of shotguns... I do love shotguns, and all other firearms, and plan to enhance them for all of us as much as I possibly can during my stay on this rock in the void...

Mike, thank you for bringing us up to speed. Facts, whether encouraging or discouraging, beat the hell out of rampant speculation.

 

Don’t blame yourself for not having a perfect crystal ball. We do the best we can assessing risk. If doing something seems like a banzai run, that’s great, but it’s got to work, because you need to live to fight another day. I’m glad you didn’t commit a fatal misstep, so you can continue to conjure up more shotgun goodness.

 

As an entrepreneur, I am thrilled you maintained control over non-Mossberg double stack applications. I guess they made you an offer for the whole kit and caboodle that you could refuse. It also tells me you see other applications for the mag. Maybe between the Saiga 12 and its clones there will be enough of a market to justify production. FYI, even thought I already have six of your drums, I would buy double stacks without any thought of how many drums or other mags I already have. As far as I am concerned, I cannot have enough mags for my AR’s, nor double stacks for my S-12’s!

 

Best wishes to you, and for coming up with a brighter shotgun future. Keep on keeping on!

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Guys, let’s not get worked up now. We are just now entering a golden age of tactical/offensive/defensive shotgun evolution/revolution. It is awesome we will get to witness it. Firearm evolution has been fairly stagnant for awhile now so this should be exciting and happy times for all of us. Let’s look to the future together.

 

I do deserve blame and shame for not getting it out for the Saiga-12. Everything from internal issues to multiple import scares and multiple political scares stopped me over and over. I do wish I knew then what I know now because the double stacks for the Saiga-12 would have been dominating since sometime in 2010. I have a great guilt that I didn’t fix the issue of so many junk ass mag options for the platform. The double stack would have crushed them like bugs... I can’t get those years back though. Maybe things will change... Maybe enough will come in from the current deal that I say screw it and make them just because the Saiga-12 and it’s users deserve them. The Saiga-12 is still by far my favorite shotgun in the world and in my opinion the most capable by far.

 

To clear things up though I retain the rights and control of the patent. The only thing I can’t do is give someone else the right to manufacture them for Mossberg platforms, including myself. Also they only have the right to manufacture them for a platform with their name. Everything else is wide open and a possibility.

 

By signing this deal it brought the double stack to life in a commercial form. It will prove to everyone that yes it is very possible and yes it is very reliable. I heard they fired a pallet of ammo at Range day and didn’t have a single issue not associated with user error like short stroking the pump.

 

The reps at Shot were telling people they plan to have a 930 version ready within a year that will take the same exact mags as the 590M. I can’t confirm/deny that myself though.

 

I will tell you that I spoke to many major manufactures and all but one were very interested in their own platform/platforms with double stacks. The one that wasn’t interested called me yesterday with a totally different tune also, lol... That doesn’t mean every last one will produce a platform or platforms usin it. It also takes the big companies time to work through all their hoops they have to jump through too. That’s not to mention all the awesome shotgun designs that people and companies have shelved over the years because there wasn’t a truly practical way to feed them.

 

I’ll also tell you that I have a new patent pending that will even further change the game and practicality for this class of shotguns... I do love shotguns, and all other firearms, and plan to enhance them for all of us as much as I possibly can during my stay on this rock in the void...

Very well said. I hope Mossberg really doesn't just slap your mag in a 930 though. If they have any sense they will be looking to do something bigger, and more deserving of your mags. I see a folding stock, pistol grip, make two visions. One is an 18 inch shotgun the other make a really short "firearm" with folding arm brace. They have a huge opportunity here and should spend the time and money on designing and bringing a totally new firearm to market.

 

Mike if you have any pull at all with Mossberg please in part this on them.

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Guys, let’s not get worked up now. We are just now entering a golden age of tactical/offensive/defensive shotgun evolution/revolution. It is awesome we will get to witness it. Firearm evolution has been fairly stagnant for awhile now so this should be exciting and happy times for all of us. Let’s look to the future together.

 

I do deserve blame and shame for not getting it out for the Saiga-12. Everything from internal issues to multiple import scares and multiple political scares stopped me over and over. I do wish I knew then what I know now because the double stacks for the Saiga-12 would have been dominating since sometime in 2010. I have a great guilt that I didn’t fix the issue of so many junk ass mag options for the platform. The double stack would have crushed them like bugs... I can’t get those years back though. Maybe things will change... Maybe enough will come in from the current deal that I say screw it and make them just because the Saiga-12 and it’s users deserve them. The Saiga-12 is still by far my favorite shotgun in the world and in my opinion the most capable by far.

 

To clear things up though I retain the rights and control of the patent. The only thing I can’t do is give someone else the right to manufacture them for Mossberg platforms, including myself. Also they only have the right to manufacture them for a platform with their name. Everything else is wide open and a possibility.

 

By signing this deal it brought the double stack to life in a commercial form. It will prove to everyone that yes it is very possible and yes it is very reliable. I heard they fired a pallet of ammo at Range day and didn’t have a single issue not associated with user error like short stroking the pump.

 

The reps at Shot were telling people they plan to have a 930 version ready within a year that will take the same exact mags as the 590M. I can’t confirm/deny that myself though.

 

I will tell you that I spoke to many major manufactures and all but one were very interested in their own platform/platforms with double stacks. The one that wasn’t interested called me yesterday with a totally different tune also, lol... That doesn’t mean every last one will produce a platform or platforms usin it. It also takes the big companies time to work through all their hoops they have to jump through too. That’s not to mention all the awesome shotgun designs that people and companies have shelved over the years because there wasn’t a truly practical way to feed them.

 

I’ll also tell you that I have a new patent pending that will even further change the game and practicality for this class of shotguns... I do love shotguns, and all other firearms, and plan to enhance them for all of us as much as I possibly can during my stay on this rock in the void...

Very well said. I hope Mossberg really doesn't just slap your mag in a 930 though. If they have any sense they will be looking to do something bigger, and more deserving of your mags. I see a folding stock, pistol grip, make two visions. One is an 18 inch shotgun the other make a really short "firearm" with folding arm brace. They have a huge opportunity here and should spend the time and money on designing and bringing a totally new firearm to market.

 

Mike if you have any pull at all with Mossberg please in part this on them.

 

seen that sko-12?  they selling a " shorty" "firearm" that has an ar buffer tube accepting receiver... they only $575 ship with an 18" barrel which is semi silly, but you have the prerogative to chop barrel and add the brace of your choice...

 

as far as getting into the market, i heard on the radio hte other day, that 85% of the things we are afraid of never happen....  grain of salt and all that but fear needs to be mastered, not second guessing anyone etc, just a good factoid we need to ponder i think

also, so lets say we mod our receiver to accept the double stack by relieving up as high as it needs to go, just spitballing here, but i bet it can be "undone" by just runnin a vepr style magwell then no? if you dont have to mod the trunnons etc i suppose

Edited by saltydecimator

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Whatever.....that Mike guy totally ran off to Mexico with all the MD-20 money haha.gif


All joking aside, I'm glad to see innovation happening. I'd rather it be on a Saiga-12 but I understand the reasoning on why it's not.  Keep on thinking things up Mike, it's how we all started on here. 

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I just find it amazing that someone who came here as a tree trimmer has accomplished things multiple times that the major firearm manufacturers couldn't on their own. By definition, "Just living the  Amer I CAN dream"...

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Did Mossberg just buy a license or did they get an exclusive license?  Or did they buy the whole patent?  Somebody screwed up with the contract?  You NEVER sell the patent.  You just issue licenses for a specific feature and that is time stamped limited.

 

Respectfully.

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no he said licensed... didnt sell... now he had patent for 5-8ish years before anything came of it, and patents only good for so long, so you really gotta strike while irons hot.... 

 

i just wish it woulda  went on a clean sheet design gun, buuuuuuuuuuuut, its kinda like planned obsolescence. they need to make their money on all the "inferior" designs first and then roll profit money into new R and D.  at leastthats how i would do it if i was big corporation... if you small guy you go for the gusto right away before big guys beat you to the better end point

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I figured I would post this here:

 

If you want to see how the new gun performs under stress, here's a first look.

 

 

Russel Fagan who is a member here (had about the textbook case of all the bad things that can go wrong with a saiga and a smith messing it up by doing all the wrong things-iirc) If I had his experience with saigas, I would probably have as low an opinion of them as he seems to, but I wish I cou

 

Per a few conversations with him, he chose to test out this gun for a change. His last few years were running a Vepr12, which he seemed to like, but he wore out nearly every part of it. I asked him for specifics, and he had carrier peening, loosened rivets, worn hammer, I forget the whole list and may have some of that wrong, but it was pretty much all the critical parts. The springs were showing signs of age the last few match videos he showed with the vepr, which I think would have shown a lot for function. All things considered, the round count he told me for his level of wear sounded very low to me, but I don't want to misquote him. -- I found that info to be very interesting, as not very many people even with high round counts are getting the kind of problems he described. I think he just attracts all the luck. Perhaps he beat an old gypsie woman at a 3 gun match years ago, and she cursed his guns to short lifespans.

 

Anyway onto the 590-m. The big takeaway I got was the bit he says about dropped mags can rim lock, if they are partly used. So he suggests that you unload mags and reload them rather than topping off, just to be on the safe side. It looked like he can power through the rimlock with a brisk pump stroke, but I might be wrong about that. I suppose I should ask him.

 

Anyway- He's a good source for gun info, because his mindset is durable pratical and simple with motions that work in any setting, any position, running or standing.... Not doing some specialty maneuver with a flashy movement and a fragile single application part that works real fast if things go right, or explodes into shards if you do it even slightly wrong. He also is pretty rough on his gear and body. So basically if it works for Russel, it is real world usable, and it is fast enough for competition. Also most of the stuff he does is intuative enough that even if you aren't practicing 300 reps a day, you could still do it without a fumble. IMO that's a lot more realistic for real life. Durable skills> perishable skills.

 

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Were all of the springs in the weapon factory? I have to be creeping up on 15k rounds with my personal SBS. I broke the carrier very early on, but that was my fault and the repair is still fine. I still have no peening on the bolt tail or firing pin and there is no metal displacement on the trunnion. The extractor is starting to wobble on its pin, but still works. I have replaced the extractor spring twice, but outside of that it has been a champ.  

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I'd suggest asking him yourself, but if I remember the conversation accurately, he said all the internals were original. I don't know about how or whether he complied with 922r.

 

He said he sold the gun.

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On 6/16/2018 at 2:24 PM, gunfun said:

I figured I would post this here:

 

If you want to see how the new gun performs under stress, here's a first look.

 

 

 Anyway onto the 590-m. The big takeaway I got was the bit he says about dropped mags can rim lock, if they are partly used. So he suggests that you unload mags and reload them rather than topping off, just to be on the safe side. It looked like he can power through the rimlock with a brisk pump stroke, but I might be wrong about that. I suppose I should ask him.

 

Anyway- He's a good source for gun info, because his mindset is durable pratical and simple with motions that work in any setting, any position, running or standing.... Not doing some specialty maneuver with a flashy movement and a fragile single application part that works real fast if things go right, or explodes into shards if you do it even slightly wrong. He also is pretty rough on his gear and body. So basically if it works for Russel, it is real world usable, and it is fast enough for competition. Also most of the stuff he does is intuative enough that even if you aren't practicing 300 reps a day, you could still do it without a fumble. IMO that's a lot more realistic for real life. Durable skills> perishable skills.

 

I’m not sure what happened here.  But dropping the mag and topping it back off won’t have any effect on rim lock.  The entire double stack portion of the magazine lets the rims do whatever they want.  They rounds can, and do, move around more under recoil than any shoulder high drop could ever have on them. The rims reorient at the very top of the mag after it transitions back to single stack.  You can literally take the floor plate off and load it from the bottom and place every single round’s rim in front of the rim above it and by the time they get to the top they have corrected themselves.  

I’m going to contact him to see if he had anymore issues.  The only other hint of trouble I have seen was a guy on Facebook made a video of his gun jamming.  I was speaking directly with him trying to find out what the problem was.  He eventually tried a different magazine and it worked fine.  I was trying to get him to let me trade him out for the problem magazine so I could analyze it personally but he went quiet.  Not sure if that means it started working or if he got it replaced through Mossberg or what.  I really wanted that damn mag though, lol.  I’m betting Mossberg couldn’t analyze it as well or as fast as I could, lol.

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Well,  It appears Russell has written an article with bad info regarding what he thought was the cause of his problem in the video above.  It will be published in Recoil Magazine.  I tried to explain to him in the comment section that his assumptions were incorrect and his deemed fix was irrelevant.  
 
He then stated it happened multiple times during the coarse of his match and stages even though the 2 videos and his spoken word in those videos contradicts that statement...  This is exactly how bad info and rumors start getting spread and from those that don’t even understand the design even when explained to them...  It’s a little annoying...  Guess I’ll have a rumor to chase around and correct.  Sucks.  
 
If you are interested watch the video and read the comments for our conversation.
 
 
Here is a link to the other video from day 2 and 3 from the same event. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

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