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MDARMS X CSSPECS steel dbl stack mag alive or dead?

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Is this still an underground thing? Any definite “hell no not happening” news I missed? I hope to GOD there is still a chance. Drums are still for sale but I think 5 is enough between two saigas.....maybe....

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I am so onborad it’s not even funny. I wonder if they will be “AK push up” worthy and if they will clear a s12c type left handed poly folding stock. I remember buying two of mikes drums when they first came out. I can’t wait!!!!

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We have not spoken of it other than a couple posts.. I basically wanted to know what he wants per mag for a fee.

 

I can figure up my costs quickly to see what is on the table.

 

My brother is unenthusiastic about it.. He thinks the shapes are possible but thinks it is going to take a lot to get everything dialed in and will have a high production loss rate.

 

Currently I have three active projects and two mid sized gun makers asking for my time.. Things are good but very busy.

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Sosss ... should I go ahead and buy up some steel single stack Csspec 8-10 rd mags for my very new Trench 12 or should I just patiently wait for the possible double stack steel high capacity Ceespec mags?  Humm.   How long should I wait?

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On 12/9/2018 at 2:06 AM, saltydecimator said:

md said in different post that csspecs swamped and also that the geometry may not lend well to stamping...

I'm willing to look at the samples and discuss the fee cost.. My contact information is widely available, at any point he wants to pursue the possibility I'm ready to hear it. My interest in the idea is tempered with my own experiences with product production. The more complicated an item is the higher the failure rate.  Fee cost is the most important thing I need to know.

 

2 hours ago, saltydecimator said:

im hopeful aftermarket will make new tower?

My understanding is that the feed tower section is mossbergs patent. So they can prevent any aftermarket tower from being made.. So I would not get your hopes up.

Edited by csspecs
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i emailed MD the other day about some other shotguns, with no response....  i would like to assume he was slaving away making sweet sweet projects, but im not so sure anymore....

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he posted that it wasnt very lucrative on here somewhere... i doubt he making much on them, i dont think they selling alot. at least im not getting offered one of them every 20 on armslist...  when keltec ksg came out and everyone realized how hard it recoiled etc they were all ditching them

 

there is a guy up in laramie wyoming, he is building that new CR12, wilkinson tactical.  he claims his job was getting around patents... i wonder if he would have any insight into it?  paul t wilkinson is his name...  he is getting D and H arms out of wisconsin to do his mags... i assume they are stamped aluminum but i could be wrong

Edited by saltydecimator

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On 12/11/2018 at 4:42 PM, saltydecimator said:

i emailed MD the other day about some other shotguns, with no response....  i would like to assume he was slaving away making sweet sweet projects, but im not so sure anymore....

I missed the email and apologize.  Send me a message here.  Actually I have been slaving away on new designs.  I have 2 more patents pending on mag designs.  A new drum design and a different way to do a  double stack...

 

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On 12/10/2018 at 10:32 AM, saltydecimator said:

im hopeful aftermarket will make new tower?

A new tower infringes on two different patents.  The tower is the double stack and there is a patent on the changeable tower as well.

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I have had a few other interested in doing a Saiga-12 double stack but nothing to my liking yet on what I want  the mag to be or cost.

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Actually the ball on a stamped double stack was left in Csspecs court.  I initiated contact 8-31-2017.  We had a few messages that day and it ended with him saying he would look at the drawings closer and then me offering suggestions to stamping concerns he had.  I contacted again 09-12-2017 asking if he had a chance to look at the drawings.  He replied  on 09-15-2017 and said that hurricane Irma had them cleaning up and work would restart for a few days but he would try to look at the drawings in the next few days.  That was the last I heard from him.  The last time he viewed our private message shows as 05-17-2018 but he didn’t follow up.  I took it as he just wasn’t as interested as he thought he was.  We never even got close to talking numbers because he never followed up on if he thought they could stamp one or not.  The idea died with him and not for my lack of follow up.  All in the private messages...

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Actually I started contact on the open board.. You followed up with a PM.

Odd.. I wrote to you on three additional occasions as I was passing through Ohio on I75 on my way to and from Michigan.. I went to Michigan a couple weeks after Irma.. Came back a couple weeks later.. Went again twice in 2018, I wrote in July of 2018 again as I was stopping in cleveland on my way up and would be going through Dayton on my way back.

No reply to my PMs, which are also not showing... Good chance your PM box was full, the old version of the site had a smaller number of PMs before it was full if I recall.

There was an active thread at the time where I posted that I tried to contact but heard nothing.. At the time the site had a feature showing when you last logged in, and there was a REALLY long time frame with no log in..

Again I have no idea.. I'm somewhat still interested.

Prices are the MAIN factor. I know what my side of things cost, I want to know how much to use the design.

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I don't care who does what with the design as long as I can lock one into a Saiga-12 at some point. I'm an 'ends' guy, lol. Bring it... someone ;)

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Not sure what happened with the PM’s.  My box wasn’t full though.

 

I actually have a patent pending on a second way to do a double stack.  It would definitely be an easier geometry to stamp. But I also now have some irons in the fire on a Saiga-12 double stack and need to see what pans out before pursuing other deals on one.  

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You might want to get cracking on that. Since you first teased the idea you lost four states to sell to.. With 8 of 50 states not able to benefit from the magazines anymore.. We are on pace to have that number go up to 12-14 in the next year or so unless the SCOTUS steps in on the gun bans.

The viability of the product greatly depends on people being allowed to own it.

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just do something!!! anything!  as solomon said, eat drink and be merry! dont worry about folks stealing your ideas etc, jsut DO IT! like shea lebouf says or whatever!

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Ive been stroking my deepest dreams about the possibility of some double stacks that will respect OEM style 12k poly or triA folders for some now, hell I bought two of the first run of md20’s. Step one has happened, DS mags are a go. I just want one I can fold my stock and still use. LOL, same story since I ever posted in any of these, please Mike, lol. I supported you man, this whole time. I have 6 drums now between my two saigas. I want to see metal DS mags happen so bad. The whiff of them in your videos made me quit buying drums lol. God bless you MikeD and you Csspecs both if the mags happen to evolve that way or not.

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I would not get much hope up.... Mike at MDarms won't even give a price per unit. 

My view is that I need at least 10-12 months to make a product. The 2020 elections are only ?? 20 months away... Anyway I would need to hear something really soon and something good so that we could roll on this fast and hard... Much more time goes by and the value is gone because you can't sell it.. I need at least six to twelve months of sales to break even on a project like this... So I need to hear back like now or honestly last month if this was going to happen, otherwise you are wasting your time. Because I don't have enough time to break even.

At the end of the day Mike at MDarms needs to get this done if it is ever going to happen. He teased this product a decade ago, that is a long long time..

Edit to add:

He says he has some other people talking about it.. So maybe something happens?

2020 is a big wild card since pretty much every single democrat is saying gun bans and confiscation, even saying to change the SCOTUS by stacking the court to make it possible.. Obama said he was not going to take anyones guns during the 2008 elections, after he won you could hardly buy a box of ammo, so for contrast 2020 is likely going to be a pretty wild ride, 2021 will likely be a total famine for gun parts sellers if trump wins again, or a bust out sale followed by being shut down and sued out of existence... Either way 2020 and 2021 are going to be very unpleasant.

Edited by csspecs
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On 3/15/2019 at 2:35 AM, csspecs said:

I would not get much hope up.... Mike at MDarms won't even give a price per unit. 

My view is that I need at least 10-12 months to make a product. The 2020 elections are only ?? 20 months away... Anyway I would need to hear something really soon and something good so that we could roll on this fast and hard... Much more time goes by and the value is gone because you can't sell it.. I need at least six to twelve months of sales to break even on a project like this... So I need to hear back like now or honestly last month if this was going to happen, otherwise you are wasting your time. Because I don't have enough time to break even.

At the end of the day Mike at MDarms needs to get this done if it is ever going to happen. He teased this product a decade ago, that is a long long time..

Edit to add:

He says he has some other people talking about it.. So maybe something happens?

2020 is a big wild card since pretty much every single democrat is saying gun bans and confiscation, even saying to change the SCOTUS by stacking the court to make it possible.. Obama said he was not going to take anyones guns during the 2008 elections, after he won you could hardly buy a box of ammo, so for contrast 2020 is likely going to be a pretty wild ride, 2021 will likely be a total famine for gun parts sellers if trump wins again, or a bust out sale followed by being shut down and sued out of existence... Either way 2020 and 2021 are going to be very unpleasant.

Our talks never got to the point of discussing numbers because you left it off at if you could even do it.  Maybe one message you claimed to send didn’t go through but honestly having a hard time that 3 didn’t.  Other ways I could have been reached by someone that was serious as well.  You never showed any real interest and said your brother didn’t either on more than one occasion.  Not going to let you pass the buck off on me why our talks never went anywhere.  At this point that boat has sailed as well.  Not trying to insult or anything like that but it is what it is and it went how I said.

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