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got mine, i rally like this thing, their website kinda sucks, as does their tech support... guy on phone said he didnt wanna discuss legal stuff while telling me i coulndt shoot an arm brace off my shoulder... told me he didnt have time to talk on phone, kinda f'd up.... also, he called the mags "clipz" sooooooooo, epic fail....

anyways, lot to like about this thing, as long as i can get decent tech support and customer service when i want/need it....



things to like
-1 PGO firearm, with a pistol buffer tube you can get away with a 12" barrel
-2 ar pistol grip accepting
-3 ar controls
-4 really looks like ar inspired fcg, just modified for size
-5 has a buffer at rear of reciever, will absorb some recoil etc
-6 with some tools could convert to lh charge if you were dedicated
-7 barrel is real close od to a saiga, so you could externally thead for chokes/breaks etc and have interchangeable parts...
-8 magwell is the receiver,  bet they could mill new ones to accept saiga or vepr or other stuff.... thats a semi negative as you have to background check and cant go to your  door....

 

 

to me, barring the whole co being a-holes and not worht supporting, or the gun being disposable could be "THE SHOTGUN" we  been waiting for....  its not perfect, but its a real contender for stuff we want (in PGO form) long one is expensive and cant get away with barrel chops..

 

heres a thread on barf that doesn say much, but save you some googling...

 

https://www.ar15.com/forums/armory/SKO-12-Shotgun/1-484568/?r=-1&page=1&anc=4952608#i4952608

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?/topic/98450-sko-shotgun/

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well it choked on winnie universal,(as expected) choked on fed dove 1290 1oz.... gonna find some hotter stuff in the stash....   the barrel lug gas ports are accessible, just not sure how they engineered this thing, and how much extra gas i can give it before i induce other problems...

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It looks a bit like a warmed over MKA1919. Is that basically what it is?

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kinda... shorter mags it seems, the xtr 12 mags are too long for it...

 

the upper and lower are alumuinum on this sko htough, better fit and finish, real ar controls, handguards are kinda chincy but not as lame as akdal...

 

the bolt has single locking lug that mates into extended barrel hood... action bars are steel, run through the aluminum receivers...

 

the real benefit of this over akdal is the PGO format

 

ran some monarch in it this morning, outta 5 rounds, 4 cycled, mag locked bolt open.... 1350 fps 1 oz loads...

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At least it runs. Might be a good starting point for something fun.

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ran some 3.25 dram remmy game load #6 1290 fps, 4/5 success...

fed 1290 1 oz also 4/5 again

 

i really wanna just port this thing and call it good... tried calling the plant, they left like as i was calling i think.... had some weird extra feeds with the mags, and just other non workin shennanigans....

 

at moment im not real impressed....

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yep, and if he would make a saiga magwell version we could use all of our (proven reliable) existing mags....

I think external dimensions may be the reason no one does this with the AR-like shotguns.

 

If you have like capacity Saiga 12 or Vepr 12 mags, compare the spring lengths if you can. I am curious as to what they are doing with the springs.

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weeeeeeeell, good call.  saiga 12 izmash spring is about twice as long as the STD mag....

 

the STD spring may be a bit thicker, havent mic'd yet, and it is bent at right angles, instead of just smooth contours in the saiga mag, but it really (STD) doesnt feel "stiffer" when you press down on follower when mag empty.... the saiga is smoother, and more uniform in its movement.  the follower  in the STD body is catching on walls a bit...

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Dress the follower with a file or wrap it in sandpaper and push it through the mag body for a pass or few.

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i slammed the saiga spring in the S.T.D. mag, ran 5 rounds of monarch 1350 1 oz flawlessly...  no room in the mag to run magt  into closed bolt though when it was full.  i called S.T.D. earlier in the day to try and talk to engineer about max gas port size on a 12-13" gun.  i made no mention of gettin NFA ppwk, but guy on phone is like, i dont know how legal that is, i dont think you can do that in CT, to which i responed, sorry you guys cant have any fun up there, haha...  he was more helpful than the guy the other day.  i just dont get the busy body fuddery of those folks up there, its my gun, ill do as i wish! they arent lawyers they building scatterguns!!

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weeeeeeeell, good call.  saiga 12 izmash spring is about twice as long as the STD mag....

 

the STD spring may be a bit thicker, havent mic'd yet, and it is bent at right angles, instead of just smooth contours in the saiga mag, but it really (STD) doesnt feel "stiffer" when you press down on follower when mag empty.... the saiga is smoother, and more uniform in its movement.  the follower  in the STD body is catching on walls a bit...

 

Uncompressed springs should be about 1/3 to 1/2 longer than the length of the magazine body.. If the magazine is 10 inches long the spring should be between 13.5' AND 15'... springs can be shorter, but generally the ratio of 1/3-1/2 of body length works pretty decent... Some of the russian magazines go double the length of the magazine, that is past ideal and you are just hauling extra spring coils that cannot help you.

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Couple of items.  First my Atlantic Firearms Trench 12 "Firearm" is getting smoother just from me practicing the various mag dropping and reloading drills.  Some 3" snap cap type dummy training shells are on the way.

 

The Csspecs 10 rd steel box mags fit perfectly.  I have some good concerns using live ammo for the drills so for now the mags remain empty.  Have not fired the Trench 12 yet.  The paper sheet said "no low power ammo".

 

There was no manual provided with the Trench 12.  I would like to know how to detail strip the Firearm.  Four, (4) position gas puck.  I do not know how they do that.  Anybody got ideas how this things comes apart?

 

I have contacted Atlantic Firearms but no answers.  Again.  However it may be my E mail provider.

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Looks a lot like a MKA1919. Maybe some strip info for that would work.

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i slammed the saiga spring in the S.T.D. mag, ran 5 rounds of monarch 1350 1 oz flawlessly...  no room in the mag to run magt  into closed bolt though when it was full.  i called S.T.D. earlier in the day to try and talk to engineer about max gas port size on a 12-13" gun.  i made no mention of gettin NFA ppwk, but guy on phone is like, i dont know how legal that is, i dont think you can do that in CT, to which i responed, sorry you guys cant have any fun up there, haha...  he was more helpful than the guy the other day.  i just dont get the busy body fuddery of those folks up there, its my gun, ill do as i wish! they arent lawyers they building scatterguns!!

Made in ct but according to std website they wont sell to ct..lol Things are weird in that area of the country. ct has "constitution state" on their license plates, what a sick joke. They should change it to "constitution infringement state".

 

Im wondering what the gas system is like? If you get it apart take some pics.

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Couple of items.  First my Atlantic Firearms Trench 12 "Firearm" is getting smoother just from me practicing the various mag dropping and reloading drills.  Some 3" snap cap type dummy training shells are on the way.

 

The Csspecs 10 rd steel box mags fit perfectly.  I have some good concerns using live ammo for the drills so for now the mags remain empty.  Have not fired the Trench 12 yet.  The paper sheet said "no low power ammo".

 

There was no manual provided with the Trench 12.  I would like to know how to detail strip the Firearm.  Four, (4) position gas puck.  I do not know how they do that.  Anybody got ideas how this things comes apart?

 

I have contacted Atlantic Firearms but no answers.  Again.  However it may be my E mail provider.

dude its an ak, you pop the cover, pull recoil spring,  pull bolt/carrier, dust off the fcg, no need in pulling axis pins unless you reprofilling stuff (maybe even not then) then reassamble in reverse... not sure why you requesting spoon feeding.... its a chinese saiga clone, just use them?!?!?!? you acting like a child with all these emails and calls and requests to distributors... thats why we have this forum....take pics, post on here, not hating on you im just really confused as to why you confused.... go slow, use headlamp, its not rocket surgery....

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i slammed the saiga spring in the S.T.D. mag, ran 5 rounds of monarch 1350 1 oz flawlessly...  no room in the mag to run magt  into closed bolt though when it was full.  i called S.T.D. earlier in the day to try and talk to engineer about max gas port size on a 12-13" gun.  i made no mention of gettin NFA ppwk, but guy on phone is like, i dont know how legal that is, i dont think you can do that in CT, to which i responed, sorry you guys cant have any fun up there, haha...  he was more helpful than the guy the other day.  i just dont get the busy body fuddery of those folks up there, its my gun, ill do as i wish! they arent lawyers they building scatterguns!!

Made in ct but according to std website they wont sell to ct..lol Things are weird in that area of the country. ct has "constitution state" on their license plates, what a sick joke. They should change it to "constitution infringement state".

 

Im wondering what the gas system is like? If you get it apart take some pics.

 

gas is just real similar to a noromal sporting lookin gun, 2 holes in an underlug ring that has a piston and a gas release (fwd) the main difference in this and a sporting gun is the receivers and the bolt buffer at rear of receiver.... so this is built like a saiga, where the receivers are purpose built to have a pistol grip, about a pistol grips length fwd of where a mossy 500 or a rem 870 would have one if you just bolted it to the back, like a lame saiga non-conversion integrated m4 stock+pistol grip...i will figure out how to post some pics again from my phone soonish

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Respectfully ...

 

Anybody else here have a Trench 12?  Is so, then how does one get the fore end plastic off?  It looks like it slides forward.  But then again there are no visual or tactile release points.  The gas tube/cylinder I can probably figure out.

 

How does the 4 position gas block come off?  No instructions.  No real tabs or flats hinting on a way.  The basic field strip is no problem.  The recoil spring is a captive 2 piece and does have a buffer.  The top cover does have a dinkie iron.

 

For those who have helped me thank you.  The other gentleman had the option of saying nothing.  I suppose there will always be detractors.  I'm the kind of guy if I do not know, I fess up to it and say so.  Plan.  Correct tools. 

 

This cuts both ways.  If anybody wants to learn how to properly torque up and perhaps index an AR15 barrel let me know.  If anybody wants to learn how to examine, gage, measure and select a used old USGI M1 Carbine ... the same.

 

The Trench 12 appears to have some propitiatory features.  I would like to find and buy a Trench 12 top cover with a rail.  The forearm brace is well designed.  Once worked 50 times the plastic does flex more.  Easy to cover my forearm.

Edited by HB of CJ

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i slammed the saiga spring in the S.T.D. mag, ran 5 rounds of monarch 1350 1 oz flawlessly...  no room in the mag to run magt  into closed bolt though when it was full.  i called S.T.D. earlier in the day to try and talk to engineer about max gas port size on a 12-13" gun.  i made no mention of gettin NFA ppwk, but guy on phone is like, i dont know how legal that is, i dont think you can do that in CT, to which i responed, sorry you guys cant have any fun up there, haha...  he was more helpful than the guy the other day.  i just dont get the busy body fuddery of those folks up there, its my gun, ill do as i wish! they arent lawyers they building scatterguns!!

 

Made in ct but according to std website they wont sell to ct..lol Things are weird in that area of the country. ct has "constitution state" on their license plates, what a sick joke. They should change it to "constitution infringement state".

Im wondering what the gas system is like? If you get it apart take some pics.

gas is just real similar to a noromal sporting lookin gun, 2 holes in an underlug ring that has a piston and a gas release (fwd) the main difference in this and a sporting gun is the receivers and the bolt buffer at rear of receiver.... so this is built like a saiga, where the receivers are purpose built to have a pistol grip, about a pistol grips length fwd of where a mossy 500 or a rem 870 would have one if you just bolted it to the back, like a lame saiga non-conversion integrated m4 stock+pistol grip...i will figure out how to post some pics again from my phone soonish

So the gas system would be similar to a remmington 1100, mossberg 930 or other "traditional" style semi auto. Or in other words closer to the mka 1919 then a S-12, in operation? I tried searching for pics or vids on the breakdown. hicok45 has a vid on the sko-12 shorty, he seperates the two reciever halves but doesnt show much of the gas system, bolt etc.

 

Theres a hell of a price difference between the shorty and the stocked version smh. I wondering where the $500+ difference is justified?

 

The bull pup version is very interesting! Looks like it would be light weight,well balanced and compact.

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Kinda weird on price for sure. The “kit” to convert to Ar buffer like 155$. Seems high. I notice that a C cell maglite is correct OD (1.250”). I plan to fab up my own adapter for cheaper. And I like way it looks with out their end cover on it.... notice the steel projection to protect from accidentally closing bolt with bolt release...

Love the idea of the buffer (nub off back of receiver). Maybe it needs hydraulic/ spring action for max reliability though...

Like a 19” barrel. I think you can cut down to hand guard/ gas system retainer nut no problem

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Edited by saltydecimator
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ran a 5rd mag of 1350 winnie AA 1 OZ through it... this has been the only time that ive gotten a full mag to run through without a failure...

 

hull says "super handicap"

Edited by saltydecimator

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i think i got them on sale, about $7-750 nowadays...  they were called super handicap... grey hull.  really like the way aa  feels like a quality product

Edited by saltydecimator

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That's cheap enough to have a little fun with and not hurt the wallet too bad. Well done.

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yep...

i was thinking these were over gassed, buuuuuuut maybe not....

just tried some wally world bulk pack winnie aa... these hulls say super sport... 1-1/8 oz, 1265ish fps(?)

 

they are a grey hull, were 29.99 ish per 100, in the bulk pack... didnt expect them to work, but they also ran 100%. 

 

anyone know some on-demand milling type folks?  preferably an independently wealthy/retired type, who doesnt charge exorbitant rates?

 

i getting super close to adding brace and chopping barrel, now that i see some better results with the more expensive hulls.... i could shoot it a lot for 'break in" but thats waste imho, rather brace, chop, then i would expect it to still work as the brace bracing should be adding some firmness to the rearward motion of the gun.... and therefore increasing reliablity, with cheap shells even.

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1 thing at a time! Do the brace, check operation - then chop. Too hard to tune when there are too many variables.

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By "milling", if you are talking about barrel work (turning), you can't just send a serial numbered firearm to anyone for barrel work. If they have possession of the serial numbered receiver and they are doing work to the weapon, at all, for profit or not, that activity requires an 07 FFL or they can end up with a 10 year federal prison sentence and up to $250k in fines. If you are there in direct control of the firearm (present the entire time, not leaving it overnight, etc) while they are doing work on it for free (not for profit) then they do not need a license to do it for no profit while you are there in direct control of the firearm. Be careful. The fundamentals of that activity are based on performing work or activity that would require a license, just like just anyone can't build you a pool. It has to be a licensed pool contractor, in non-primitive states, at least. In most cases of hiring a licensed professional, you are not paying much for the actual work, you are paying for the regulations they have to comply with and the expenses incurred.

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oh naw for the milling i was meaning lathe work actually....  the rear of the receiver houses that bolt buffer spring assy.  STD mfg wants $150 for a washer and a new buffer assy that has female threads for an AR buffer tube.  thats too steep for a problem they created .  i am just imagining 2 diff pieces of tubing, 1 goes around existing buffer housing and fits inside a 1.25" oD alum tube that will be dimpled etc just like a  regular pistol AR buffer tube....

 

and yes, i do respect folks who have put in the time and effort etc to do what they are doing, i just need the right guy who doesnt charge too much and who listens and can interpret my "ADD" ramblijngs, haha

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