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Hello:

 

I am not a gunsmith nor am I well-versed in rifle building jargon.

 

I have heard about bedding a rifle stock my whole life. More recently, I've heard about using pillars in a gunstock. I get the impression both are used to enhance the accuracy of a rifle.

 

I'd like to ask just what exactly is bedding a gunstock all about? What does it do? When is it needed? What is used to "bed" a rifle?

 

Also, what exactly are pillars for and what do they do? Where are they?

 

Are both procedures needed - perhaps for redundancy?

 

Are these costly procedures?

 

Maybe this is unrelated, but what are folks talking about when they are discussing torqueing their rifles or their rifles' actions?

 

Just wondering and trying to learn. I wish there was a book titled "Gunsmithing for Dummies" or something like that.

 

My curiosity might be opening a big can of expensive worms. amazing.gif

 

Again ... I don't want to sound like an idiot when I finally visit my local gunsmith. I figure I'll need to get a barrel assembled to an action by him to ensure everything is kosher, because he'll have what are called "go/no-go" headspace gauges (right?). I want to be able to converse better with him when other issues are mentioned.

 

Thanks guys.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Don't worry about sounding like an idiot. He is supposed to know about this stuff or have the humility to admit he may not specialize in that kind of thing, like me. I watched a friend of mine pillar and bed a competition rifle. Looked like a messy pain in the butt.

 

 

Find someone who is somewhat known for specializing in precision rigs (they will already be well set up for this work), email him and tell him what you have, ask what he would recommend, maybe even if it is appropriate to pillar and bed it. You may find that he recommends a different stock that doesn't need all of that. If the guy tells you he doesn't specialize in accurizing rifles, MOVE ON, and find someone who does. If you force him to do work he does not want to do, you may either not like the price or not like the work, or both.

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I glass/pillar bedded my wood stocked Remington Model 7 years ago.  It is, as Evl stated, a messy pain in the ass.  It also solved the problems I was having with that rifle, so in the end it was well worth doing.  The factory wood stock was warped and pressing on the barrel, throwing my point of impact off by well over a foot at 100 yards, which caused me to have to crank in a bunch of adjustment at my scope and irons.  After the bedding, I was able to take all of that adjustment out because it shoots basically to boresight now.  Interestingly, grouping size was not changed either way.

 

Essentially what I did was follow the instructions in the Acraglas Gel kit, plus I added a couple of pieces of steel tube to serve as pillars for the action screws.  You can either glass bed, pillar bed, or both at the same time.  I did both at the same time.  You end up hogging out stock material around the barrel, action, and recoil lug, and also drilling out the action screw holes oversize to accept whatever you are using for pillars, and then there is some prep work to the action as well.  I put a layer of electrical tape over the forward face of the recoil lug to create some clearance for removal and installation, and also around the barrel to create clearance for free float.  EVERYTHING metal and that you will want to be able to remove needs to be generously coated in release compound, and everywhere on the stock that you don't want bedding compound will need to be taped off carefully.  Then the compound can be applied per the instructions, and the whole thing assembled.  Once it has cured, hopefully you'll be able to separate the action from the stock if you have done it correctly.  My stock chipped slightly where the action stuck around the safety cutout but it was pretty minor so I applied some finish oil over the damaged spot and left it alone.  It's a hunting rifle and subject to getting stock scratches anyway.

 

Again, you can do either or both, but if you have a wood stock, the advantage of a full length bedding job including the channel will be to stabilize the stock so that it can't shift and impact your accuracy.  The main function of the pillars is to allow the action screws to develop and retain their full torque repeatably, which can have an effect on accuracy and zero retention.

 

But as I said, it's a pain in the ass.  I built another Model 7 from a bare action last year, and that time around I just bought a composite stock with a built in aluminum bedding block.  It's way more easier and works well, although in theory the glass bedding with pillars can be better since it is a custom fit to your rifle, and the fit of the aluminum bedding block is subject to manufacturing tolerances.


Squeaky, what action are you using?

Edited by Netpackrat

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​Bedding is a pain and with that said shoot the gun for a while to see if there is a problem.

Midway has a great video bedding a wooden stock. When it comes to poly and fiber glass stocks It may be a waste of time . Non wood stocks flex a whole lot and need more attention.

Always make sure the barrel screws are tight  ,when you think they are tight they may need a little more. Lock tight is a must and screws should be checked after about 10 rounds as the gun will break its self in and sometimes move stock material in the holes causing the screw to be loose.

What ever you choose to do take it slow and review and do a few dry runs before you mix your bedding. This will give you the proper perspective when the moment  comes. Shut off your cell phone, turn down all music and TV, tell the wife and kids to stay away and then pray. It will be fine or it will be fine the second time , for many who have not done it before there is a second time. There are a lot of good products out there that will do the job, just do your homework (it is part of the fun).

Good luck on your project.

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Hey Netpackrat:

 

I'll be getting a Remington 700 short action receiver for .308 Winchester. Buds has the plain black ones for a good price with their "Pro-X" trigger. Might get a Timney trigger. I know everyone is going nuts about 6.5 Creedmore, but .308 is a proven round and is more readily available in my area. Federal Matchking 168gr. ammo will be used.    

 

Per my previous post, I can't decide between a Boyds Pro Varmint stock (because it looks tactical like a MacMillan A-5), or a Boyds Varmint Thumbhole stock - might be a bit more accurate and can accept a bull barrel according to their product descriptions. Boyd's gunstocks are laminated wood stocks. I already have for a .22LR bull barrel project. It's a neat stock.  

 

The Pro Varmint stock might need some work to get a bull barrel to fit. I'm thinking about getting a Shilen #7 heavy varmint or #8 bull barrel contour with a recessed crown. I can't get a straight answer from Boyds about barrel fit issues. Despite the lamination, I assume any wood stock will, at the least, need a bedding job. Might as well pillar the action too.

 

Anyway ... I just like heavy barrels. I think they look cool. However, I do understand how they dampen barrel harmonics (or have none at all) and absorb heat better too. I'd like a 26" barrel if possible to get just a bit more velocity. I saw 6mm benchrest competition rifles last weekend. They all had heavy barrels. It was neat to see them and the groups they got were amazing. Literally .180" - .190" at 200 yds. I'll be happy to be sub-MOA.

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If you go to youtube and search for "pillar bedding a rife stock" and "glass bedding a rifle stock" you will see great examples of both. Usually, pillar bedding is done in preparation for glass bedding.

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Hey Netpackrat:

 

I'll be getting a Remington 700 short action receiver for .308 Winchester. Buds has the plain black ones for a good price with their "Pro-X" trigger. Might get a Timney trigger. I know everyone is going nuts about 6.5 Creedmore, but .308 is a proven round and is more readily available in my area. Federal Matchking 168gr. ammo will be used.    

 

Per my previous post, I can't decide between a Boyds Pro Varmint stock (because it looks tactical like a MacMillan A-5), or a Boyds Varmint Thumbhole stock - might be a bit more accurate and can accept a bull barrel according to their product descriptions. Boyd's gunstocks are laminated wood stocks. I already have for a .22LR bull barrel project. It's a neat stock.  

 

The Pro Varmint stock might need some work to get a bull barrel to fit. I'm thinking about getting a Shilen #7 heavy varmint or #8 bull barrel contour with a recessed crown. I can't get a straight answer from Boyds about barrel fit issues. Despite the lamination, I assume any wood stock will, at the least, need a bedding job. Might as well pillar the action too.

 

Anyway ... I just like heavy barrels. I think they look cool. However, I do understand how they dampen barrel harmonics (or have none at all) and absorb heat better too. I'd like a 26" barrel if possible to get just a bit more velocity. I saw 6mm benchrest competition rifles last weekend. They all had heavy barrels. It was neat to see them and the groups they got were amazing. Literally .180" - .190" at 200 yds. I'll be happy to be sub-MOA.

 

Laminated wood is basically high end plywood. The grain is all arranged to cancel out tendencies to warp in any direction, and the whole thing is stabilized by the forcefed glues and resins they used to make the laminate. For most purposes, it would be stiffer than fiberglass etc, and not subject to warping. Maybe a little more prone to swell with moisture though, depending on what process they used for the laminations. It will probably be heavier though,

 

BTW, the posts above have really good info on the topic, and I can second the notion that watching youtube videos on the topic will give you a very good idea how much work is involved and whether you want to mess with it. On the upside, if you goof it up, you can always just hog out all the hardened goop and start over.

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Hey Netpackrat:

 

I'll be getting a Remington 700 short action receiver for .308 Winchester. Buds has the plain black ones for a good price with their "Pro-X" trigger. Might get a Timney trigger. I know everyone is going nuts about 6.5 Creedmore, but .308 is a proven round and is more readily available in my area. Federal Matchking 168gr. ammo will be used.    

 

Per my previous post, I can't decide between a Boyds Pro Varmint stock (because it looks tactical like a MacMillan A-5), or a Boyds Varmint Thumbhole stock - might be a bit more accurate and can accept a bull barrel according to their product descriptions. Boyd's gunstocks are laminated wood stocks. I already have for a .22LR bull barrel project. It's a neat stock.  

 

The Pro Varmint stock might need some work to get a bull barrel to fit. I'm thinking about getting a Shilen #7 heavy varmint or #8 bull barrel contour with a recessed crown. I can't get a straight answer from Boyds about barrel fit issues. Despite the lamination, I assume any wood stock will, at the least, need a bedding job. Might as well pillar the action too.

 

Anyway ... I just like heavy barrels. I think they look cool. However, I do understand how they dampen barrel harmonics (or have none at all) and absorb heat better too. I'd like a 26" barrel if possible to get just a bit more velocity. I saw 6mm benchrest competition rifles last weekend. They all had heavy barrels. It was neat to see them and the groups they got were amazing. Literally .180" - .190" at 200 yds. I'll be happy to be sub-MOA.

 

Laminated wood is basically high end plywood. The grain is all arranged to cancel out tendencies to warp in any direction, and the whole thing is stabilized by the forcefed glues and resins they used to make the laminate. For most purposes, it would be stiffer than fiberglass etc, and not subject to warping. Maybe a little more prone to swell with moisture though, depending on what process they used for the laminations. It will probably be heavier though,

 

BTW, the posts above have really good info on the topic, and I can second the notion that watching youtube videos on the topic will give you a very good idea how much work is involved and whether you want to mess with it. On the upside, if you goof it up, you can always just hog out all the hardened goop and start over.

 

 

This place, http://www.rutply.com/ , is very local to me. It burned to the ground in 2014. It's where Boyd's got their "Stratabond" plywood for a couple of decades before the fire. It's where I got the slab the I made the set for my Siaga from, and another that's still a slab. :) 

 

I was a supervisor in a plywood mill for 8 years in the 1980's. The highest grade we manufactured was "furniture grade" plywood, with .10" poplar veneer and exterior glue. The "Stratabond" is in another realm in comparison. Rutland Plywood supplied many manufactures with material including musical instrument manufacturers, firearms manufacturers, Burton Snowboards and other sporting goods manufacturers.

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Hey Netpackrat:

 

I'll be getting a Remington 700 short action receiver for .308 Winchester. Buds has the plain black ones for a good price with their "Pro-X" trigger. Might get a Timney trigger. I know everyone is going nuts about 6.5 Creedmore, but .308 is a proven round and is more readily available in my area. Federal Matchking 168gr. ammo will be used.    

 

Per my previous post, I can't decide between a Boyds Pro Varmint stock (because it looks tactical like a MacMillan A-5), or a Boyds Varmint Thumbhole stock - might be a bit more accurate and can accept a bull barrel according to their product descriptions. Boyd's gunstocks are laminated wood stocks. I already have for a .22LR bull barrel project. It's a neat stock.  

 

The Pro Varmint stock might need some work to get a bull barrel to fit. I'm thinking about getting a Shilen #7 heavy varmint or #8 bull barrel contour with a recessed crown. I can't get a straight answer from Boyds about barrel fit issues. Despite the lamination, I assume any wood stock will, at the least, need a bedding job. Might as well pillar the action too.

 

Anyway ... I just like heavy barrels. I think they look cool. However, I do understand how they dampen barrel harmonics (or have none at all) and absorb heat better too. I'd like a 26" barrel if possible to get just a bit more velocity. I saw 6mm benchrest competition rifles last weekend. They all had heavy barrels. It was neat to see them and the groups they got were amazing. Literally .180" - .190" at 200 yds. I'll be happy to be sub-MOA.

 

hardened goop

 

Such a perfect way to say it. That is exactly what it looks like.

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We, (family and me) have an ongoing medium to low speed fun project accurizing, (sp?) a sweet shooting Inland USGI M1 Carbine.  This includes so far glassing in the area around a tight fitting receiver recoil plate.  Also included glassing in the recoil plate screw nut which rests deep in the stock wood.

 

The barrel gages perfect.  An integral gas block.  Late type piston nut.

 

A hand picked cheap type 3 bayonet lug type front band seems to fit the stock and barrel very well.  The idea is to let the Carbine be field stripped if necessary and allow a repeatable tight lockup between the barreled receiver and stock.  The top hand guard floats.  Lots of fun.  1 inch 100 yard groups?  :)

 

We will see.  Seems Linux Mint 17 speell chyk is not working today.  How do you speel accurize?  :)

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