Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Need Side Rail for Tromix S17 to Mount RDS


  • Please log in to reply
75 replies to this topic

#1 kwesi

kwesi

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 214 posts

Posted 30 May 2018 - 10:12 PM

Please share what you are using on your S12. I’m also open to your choice of a RDS that holds up. Thx!

#2 pedal2alloy

pedal2alloy

    Boom boom.

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,234 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 30 May 2018 - 11:03 PM

Side rails are lame.  I would do a scout type mount especially for a red dot.  There are several

 

https://www.centurya...com/sc1302.html

 

Attached File  72L_SC1302_AK-ScopeMt_1.png   50.38KB   1 downloads

 

Attached File  19829b9a83adb20510d5ef7ad53bd837.jpg   6.6KB   1 downloads

 

One idea for a replacement rear sight block integrated with the gas tube:

http://forum.saiga-1...sight/?p=695827

 

 

The Russian Armicon:

Attached File  Russian rail.png   781.49KB   0 downloads

https://www.legionus...y-aluminum.html

 

"You can never be carrying too much ammo, unless you are trying to swim, or you are on fire"

#3 pedal2alloy

pedal2alloy

    Boom boom.

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,234 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 30 May 2018 - 11:09 PM

Here is the Russian one with a scope on it

 

Attached File  Russian Rear Sight.jpg   728.32KB   1 downloads

 

Cool !!

 

 


"You can never be carrying too much ammo, unless you are trying to swim, or you are on fire"

#4 evlblkwpnz

evlblkwpnz

    6.5" S12 and 7" V12

  • Business Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,273 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Yulee, FL
  • FFL_Verified
  • 07FFL / 2SOT

  • Company Name:

    evlutionz LLC

  • Company Website:
    evlutionz.com
  • Contact Email:

    evl@evlutionz.com

Posted 31 May 2018 - 05:55 AM

He can't use any of those because a Saiga 12 does not have a regular AK rifle rear sight base. All he has to work with is the receiver cover, the gas tube, and the dovetail where the original rear sight was. I am pretty sure those do not get welded and blended on a Tromix S17.

 

I can't speak for durability of this specific item, but there is a picatinny rail that goes in the dovetail location of the original rear sight.

ETA: I just remembered removing one because it bent, don't bother with this.

 

This is about the most durable concept I have seen that isn't mounted on the side rail. I don't use sights on shotguns, at all, so I have no experience with it, not even on a customer's gun.

https://www.carolina...l-s12-mount.htm


Prodigy.... an unusual accomplishment.

 

OETpxqr.png?2

 

Federally Licensed Firearm Manufacturer


#5 kwesi

kwesi

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 214 posts

Posted 31 May 2018 - 08:11 AM

Thanks for the replies! Evl is correct. The S17 has an HK rear drum sight. Any thoughts on this: Midwest Industries Quick Detach Picatinny-Style Scope Mount AK-47, AK-74 Side Rail Matte? I read the reviews. Sounds like the tolerances of the Saiga will determine how it sits in relation to the bore.

#6 Veprz

Veprz

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 130 posts

Posted 31 May 2018 - 06:59 PM

Alot of people like the rs regulate side mounts, they have option to position your rds whever you want/need in relation to the bore and fwd/aft. Txzen is the russian optics/mount guru, not sure if hes on this forum but hes well known in the AK community. Heres a link to his website that has information on nearly every russian optic/mount availible for Kalashnikov based weapons. This link will bring you to the mount section.

http://russianoptics.net/mounts.html
The end justifies the means..the end is power..power corrupts..absolute power corrupts absolutely.

#7 pedal2alloy

pedal2alloy

    Boom boom.

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,234 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 31 May 2018 - 11:39 PM

Post a picture of where the rear sight usually is, and I'll tell you how to mount a section of picatinny rail on there


"You can never be carrying too much ammo, unless you are trying to swim, or you are on fire"

#8 Spacehog

Spacehog

    Citizen

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,971 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 01 June 2018 - 06:58 AM

Below is the Carolina Shooters solution rail that fits into the rear sight dove tail and friction locks with set screws. Not sure Evl if this is the exact rail you have seen bent up or if those were a knock off of this. I have a different set up now, but never had issues with durability or zero when I had a red dot on it. To the OP, if you don’t use something like this, IMHO the RS mounts side mounts are about the lowest profile and adjustable mounts out there:
Attached File  8C78B977-45C7-4638-99C7-905870765377.jpeg   165.21KB   2 downloads
  • GunFun likes this

#9 HB of CJ

HB of CJ

    Top Member

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,671 posts

Posted 01 June 2018 - 07:45 PM

The Saigas had the side scope mount receiver holes.  Apparently Tromix fills the holes in?  Can you re drill the required holes?  Maybe you can find an appropriate side mount and use as a jig?  Small C-clamps to lock it down.   Use a bore or chamber laser and mount your scope.  Try to get the two very close to bore sited.  Drill the required holes.

 

Centered on the desirable target and range with the scope adjustments dead centered.

 

But having said that expect the situation where you may have to elongate and shim the holes slightly to get the scope or optic centered exactly.  We had to with our Saigas.  The OEM side holes were not even close.  Way off.  The scope was looking at the moon and the bore was centered on some part of the sky.  No big deal.  The fix was doable.

 

The oldest grand kid helped.  This was years ago.  She did the equations determining how much we had to shim the side mount to center up the scope.  Eotecks and Leopolds.   We just used hardware common small Allen screws and hex nuts.  Blue Lock Tite.  The hex nuts and screw were ground smooth on the inside.  Good clearance.  A fun project to do.

 

Edited Extra.  I want to put a nice compact laser and flash light mount on my new Trench 12.  Same situation.  Same fun easy fix.  Drilling holes in the receiver side does not bother me that much.  Just a project.


Edited by HB of CJ, 01 June 2018 - 09:25 PM.


#10 evlblkwpnz

evlblkwpnz

    6.5" S12 and 7" V12

  • Business Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,273 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Yulee, FL
  • FFL_Verified
  • 07FFL / 2SOT

  • Company Name:

    evlutionz LLC

  • Company Website:
    evlutionz.com
  • Contact Email:

    evl@evlutionz.com

Posted 02 June 2018 - 06:35 AM

OP,

What are you doing with it that would require more than the HK sights? Just wondering.

 

 

Spacehog, yes, the rail at least looked like that. It had an allen screw or two in it that stabilized it on the gas tube in front and maybe the back, and the aluminum rail attached to the steel dovetail portion of the mount with two allen screws side by side. It could have been made by someone else though, not sure. 


  • Spacehog likes this

Prodigy.... an unusual accomplishment.

 

OETpxqr.png?2

 

Federally Licensed Firearm Manufacturer


#11 kwesi

kwesi

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 214 posts

Posted 02 June 2018 - 10:12 AM

HB:
2ij4yut.jpg

Will I not be able to attach the AK-301M?

#12 HB of CJ

HB of CJ

    Top Member

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,671 posts

Posted 02 June 2018 - 02:38 PM

You would need the side receiver mount also.



#13 pedal2alloy

pedal2alloy

    Boom boom.

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,234 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 02 June 2018 - 04:50 PM

HB:
2ij4yut.jpg

Will I not be able to attach the AK-301M?

 

HB was thinking that the Tromix guns had them removed with the holes welded in, most of them probably did.  Yours still has the side rail which is rare, I'm assuming for a Tromix gun.  With that, you would be all set with any version of a side rail mount


Below is the Carolina Shooters solution rail that fits into the rear sight dove tail and friction locks with set screws. Not sure Evl if this is the exact rail you have seen bent up or if those were a knock off of this. I have a different set up now, but never had issues with durability or zero when I had a red dot on it. To the OP, if you don’t use something like this, IMHO the RS mounts side mounts are about the lowest profile and adjustable mounts out there:
attachicon.gif8C78B977-45C7-4638-99C7-905870765377.jpeg

 

This is better tho, for a red dot


"You can never be carrying too much ammo, unless you are trying to swim, or you are on fire"

#14 HB of CJ

HB of CJ

    Top Member

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,671 posts

Posted 02 June 2018 - 05:33 PM

My Bad.  Opps.  Shiet.  You already have the side receiver mount.  All you need in one of the many available mounts that quick slips into and onto your existing side mount.

 

The rest of my post stands.  You probably will have to remove that side mount and re install with shims to get the desired optic dead centered up and down, right to left.

 

I'm holding right now the mount we use on our Saigas.  There is no manufactures or company name anywhere on the mount.  Black extruded machined aluminum.

 

Has two rails.  On on top, the other on the side lower.  Three Allan screws tighten it against the side receiver mount.  If memory serves UTG?  Does that sound right everybody?

 

Mississippi Auto Arms has them in stock.  About $48 bucks shipped.

 

Ours is the medium height version.  You want to be able to get the top cover and op spring off and out without having to bother the optic mount.  Ours come off OK.  Barely.

 

Hope this helps some.


Edited by HB of CJ, 02 June 2018 - 05:40 PM.


#15 kwesi

kwesi

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 214 posts

Posted 02 June 2018 - 08:25 PM

evlb: The reason for adding the RDS was when walking & stalking feral hogs. Estimate 25 - 50 yards running slugs. I was thinking quicker target acquisition with my eyes. Thoughts anyone? Am I over thinking the application?

Pedal: thanks for pointing this out! But HB feels certain I wuill need shins, etc which I do not want to do. I was ready to order the RS AK-301M. Are you guys all in agreement this would not line up without shims?

Edited by kwesi, 02 June 2018 - 09:12 PM.


#16 pedal2alloy

pedal2alloy

    Boom boom.

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 1,234 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 03 June 2018 - 01:11 AM

evlb: The reason for adding the RDS was when walking & stalking feral hogs. Estimate 25 - 50 yards running slugs. I was thinking quicker target acquisition with my eyes. Thoughts anyone? Am I over thinking the application?

Pedal: thanks for pointing this out! But HB feels certain I wuill need shins, etc which I do not want to do. I was ready to order the RS AK-301M. Are you guys all in agreement this would not line up without shims?

 

I would go ahead and get the mount you want and see how it fits.  I don't doubt that people have had to do some shimming or other modification to make everything line up, because the AK family of firearms doesn't have a high level of standardization.  But see if you get lucky or can mod the mount before you have to resort to drilling out the rivets on your gun


"You can never be carrying too much ammo, unless you are trying to swim, or you are on fire"

#17 evlblkwpnz

evlblkwpnz

    6.5" S12 and 7" V12

  • Business Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,273 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Yulee, FL
  • FFL_Verified
  • 07FFL / 2SOT

  • Company Name:

    evlutionz LLC

  • Company Website:
    evlutionz.com
  • Contact Email:

    evl@evlutionz.com

Posted 03 June 2018 - 06:52 AM

evlb: The reason for adding the RDS was when walking & stalking feral hogs. Estimate 25 - 50 yards running slugs. I was thinking quicker target acquisition with my eyes. Thoughts anyone? Am I over thinking the application?

Pedal: thanks for pointing this out! But HB feels certain I wuill need shins, etc which I do not want to do. I was ready to order the RS AK-301M. Are you guys all in agreement this would not line up without shims?

I understand. Very rarely, do encounter anyone who wants to mount an optic on a shotgun for a sensible reason. Sounds reasonable to want an optic on a shotgun for that application.


You might just get what you want on there, zero, use it a little, and then make a decision on shims. Plenty of Russian optics are way off center and work just fine. If you are hitting, does it really matter? That's how I would view it.

 

 

Have you seen that Holosun/Primary Arms ACSS reticle? You might try something with that. It is a fast reticle. Comes in micro sized all the way to magnified optics. I have a micro and a 1.6x with that reticle and love them.


Prodigy.... an unusual accomplishment.

 

OETpxqr.png?2

 

Federally Licensed Firearm Manufacturer


#18 kwesi

kwesi

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 214 posts

Posted 03 June 2018 - 08:00 AM

My buddy has a Holosun with the green reticle that is very quick. Not sure of the model. I think I will order the RS. I really appreciate the education and guidance!

#19 Mullet Man

Mullet Man

    Top Member

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,930 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Land of the F.O.I.D.

Posted 03 June 2018 - 09:14 AM

HB feels certain I wuill need shins, etc which I do not want to do. I was ready to order the RS AK-301M. Are you guys all in agreement this would not line up without shims?

 

It's unlikely you'll need to do anything to the side rail mount. 

 

What RDS are you planning? The lowest option you have is a 30mm RDS in an RS 30mm tube mount. That should put the tube a few millimeters above the dust cover.

 

I'm curious to hear how the cheaper RDS' will hold up to the repeated abuse of a 12g.


Edited by Mullet Man, 03 June 2018 - 09:17 AM.

Are you a resident of Illinois? Join www.Illinoiscarry.com

 

Items for sale...http://forum.saiga-1...-vepr12-and-ak/


#20 kwesi

kwesi

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 214 posts

Posted 03 June 2018 - 09:19 AM

I have not decided on a RDS. I have a Mueller Quick Shot that’s been sitting in the safe for too long. Plan to mount for starters. Even if it lines up and all is good it might not be able to handle the 12 gauge.

#21 Mullet Man

Mullet Man

    Top Member

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,930 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Land of the F.O.I.D.

Posted 03 June 2018 - 09:40 AM

You understand that buying the RS-AK301M, is only the main body lower section of mounting an optic? You still need to buy your choice of RS upper, that is specific to the style of RDS you choose. I think they offer 5 styles of uppers. 

 

I guess what i'm saying is you need to decide on an optic and then pick the corresponding RS upper section.


Edited by Mullet Man, 03 June 2018 - 10:00 AM.

Are you a resident of Illinois? Join www.Illinoiscarry.com

 

Items for sale...http://forum.saiga-1...-vepr12-and-ak/


#22 kwesi

kwesi

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 214 posts

Posted 03 June 2018 - 01:25 PM

That is news to me. The picture of the RS AK-301M has the forward short picatinny rail attached. Why would I need an additional upper?

#23 Mullet Man

Mullet Man

    Top Member

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,930 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Land of the F.O.I.D.

Posted 03 June 2018 - 01:52 PM

Because that short little rail is not picatinny. It's to mount the (an) upper to. It gives you left right centering adjustment of the optic, over the firearm.
That short little rail doesn't reach over the top of the dust cover. It's just a platform to mount any of the handful of uppers to.

Have a look at all the extra stuff and see if you can put two and two together.....

https://www.aimsurpl...ular Side Mount


The whole system is modular.

Edited by Mullet Man, 03 June 2018 - 01:54 PM.

Are you a resident of Illinois? Join www.Illinoiscarry.com

 

Items for sale...http://forum.saiga-1...-vepr12-and-ak/


#24 kwesi

kwesi

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 214 posts

Posted 03 June 2018 - 02:06 PM

It states it is an optic rail
23uo7kj.jpg

Edited by kwesi, 03 June 2018 - 02:07 PM.


#25 kwesi

kwesi

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 214 posts

Posted 03 June 2018 - 02:25 PM

Mullet Man: I’ve seen the light! Dang a picatinny upper is $73 additional! Thanks for schooling me!! So as long as my RDS mounts to a picatinny base then I need the AKR 1913 rail mount, right?

#26 Mullet Man

Mullet Man

    Top Member

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,930 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Land of the F.O.I.D.

Posted 03 June 2018 - 02:34 PM

000.gif

 

Yes you are correct.

A Picatinny base mounted RDS is going to sit high. So high, that you will probably be able (need) to rest your chin on the butt stock to use it.

 

30mm is the lowest mounting option for an RDS on an AK, using the factory siderail. 

 

Figure out if you're comfortable with mounting an optic high up or if you prefer as low as possible. Pick your red dot first. then get the upper to fit it. You'll be looking at about $180/$190 for an RS optic mount system. They are nice tho. I've also heard the Midwest Industries Gen2 stuff is nice as well.


Edited by Mullet Man, 03 June 2018 - 02:35 PM.

Are you a resident of Illinois? Join www.Illinoiscarry.com

 

Items for sale...http://forum.saiga-1...-vepr12-and-ak/


#27 HB of CJ

HB of CJ

    Top Member

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,671 posts

Posted 03 June 2018 - 05:35 PM

It's likely you may have to shim the receiver side mount rail.  The two key words here are likely and may.  Our Saiga 7.62x51 16" bbl receiver side rail was aligned about 10 inches off to the left and about 8 inches high at only 100 yards.  If memory serves.  The old Leopold 3x9x40 we first put on "Maxine Max Blast", (the rifles name)  had the aperture exactly centered.

 

Mount your chosen desirable scope mount.  Attach a good scope with cross hairs to the mount.  Tighten up.  Then use a good bore or chamber 12 gage laser bore sighter to see what you have.  You might be golden and good to go.  Probably not.  Determine how much you may have to shim to correct the side receiver rail.  Like said ... for a hog shotgun it may not matter.

 

But it might. You might find out you want to clean up and center the side receiver rail mount.  Determine the shims.  Have fun.  We found this to be a fun easy project.  Our Saiga 12 now has a red dot site.  The Saiga 7.62x51 an old Leopold 1x4x20.



#28 kwesi

kwesi

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 214 posts

Posted 03 June 2018 - 08:33 PM

My buddy likes this MI vs the RS because it is about $54 cheaper ( picatinny rail included ) and feels it will line up close enough then only need a little RDS adjustment. Possibly this. Thoughts?
33uee6w.jpg

#29 Veprz

Veprz

    Advanced Member

  • Member
  • PipPip
  • 130 posts

Posted 03 June 2018 - 10:24 PM

Midwest makes some good stuff. I dont have any personal experience with that particular mount. Rs regulate mount will offer you the most adjustability. It really depends on what you want (features) and how much your willing to spend. Strictly for use on the S-12 with a picatinny rds, you should be fine with either. If you plan to move the mount to another AK based weapon with a magnified scope, you may be best off with the RS and its modularity/adaptability.
The end justifies the means..the end is power..power corrupts..absolute power corrupts absolutely.

#30 Mullet Man

Mullet Man

    Top Member

  • Contributor
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,930 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Land of the F.O.I.D.

Posted 04 June 2018 - 06:10 AM

Do you already have your red dot picked out? You seem pretty dead set on a picatinny mount.

And I don't think HB understands what "likely may", means.

Are you a resident of Illinois? Join www.Illinoiscarry.com

 

Items for sale...http://forum.saiga-1...-vepr12-and-ak/





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users