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What was the consensus on the Lynx? I know the Catamount had problems, but I've been seeing the Lynx going for a very cheap price lately. True s-12 Clone? Just as good?

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No clue, but I highly doubt the metallurgy is just as good. Some of the deviations from the design are better on the Chinese clones, however, but that isn't worth much. 

 

ETA: They are apparently doing things differently than Catamount, DDI, etc. Mike Davidson says they are actually good and his standards are not low. I trust it coming from him. Try one, let us know how it is.

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So far I’m really liking the Lynx.  SDS is insisting on quality.  Hammer forged bolts and every one is x-rayed for flaws.  

In my opinion they are better made than the Saiga-12.  Don’t let the $500 price tag scare you away.  It is an absolute steal at that price!!!!  

They do have a factory buffer which I think should be removed.  Those were almost always trouble in a Saiga-12.  The gas system could have a better plug and piston but the plug is definitely better than the factory Saiga plug.  

Some seem to have a break in period for low power ammo.  They seem to be better out of the box than the later Saigas though.  

I have been trying to give SDS a few pointers on how to make them all run right out of the box.  Wouldn’t really add anything to their production costs.  They seem receptive so far and I hope they make the changes.  They truly have a chance to squash the Saiga stigma and I hope they take it.  As popular as the Saiga-12 once was it never reached a fraction of it’s potential over the flaws and stigma to follow.  I told SDS all this and that if they collaborated with a couple respected Saiga gurus on improvements and screamed it from the roof tops that it was just another cheap copy of an already troubled platform that they could turn the tables.  

As far as it being a Chinese made gun...  China is completely capable of building good stuff.  They build what you ask them to build.  If you ask them to build you a POS named the Catamount Fury they will.  If you ask them build you quality, like the Lynx, they will...  Think Norinco and PolyTech...  From my talks with SDS I trust they want quality and demand it.  One of their guys is constantly going over to China to check on things.  SDS immediately put me in touch with their top US engineer and top Chinese factory engineer.  One of the major owners of SDS even came and spent a few hours at my house!  They have a lot on their plate with other projects but I’m trying to stay on them about the Lynx improvements.  I told them how they could make the gas plug that I wished I could have made for the Saiga-12.  The V-Plug is by far the best there is and all the copies missed why I did what I did and changed stuff.  Even then the V-Plug design was limited to host weapon.  They Lynx can change that.  It can be a super clean system that doesn’t need the gas block and components cleaned every 500 to 1000 rounds.  Just a bunch of stuff and a ton of potential!

On a side note I tried to talk to K-USA about their gun but they just weren’t interested in my ideas.  It’s not like I was trying to charge them or anything.  Free advice and free designs.  Oh well, that’s on K-USA!

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Mike, if it was coming from anyone else I would not trust it. After having first hand experience with the Cat, I was most definitely not going to bother with anything Chinese that didn't have Norinco or Polytech rollmarked on it somewhere, but you just changed that. As far as K USA brushing you off when you are trying to help them at no charge, whatever. ALG did the same thing to me when I offered to give them a perfected AKT to copy and then they put forth effort to just offer something that fits, nevermind the rest of the FCG working against reliability, lol. They obviously do not feel the shotguns deserve the same attention to detail that the ARs and AK rifles get. Onward, I'd like to see K USA succeed, but if they don't watch out they will fall behind. To be bested by a Chinese shotgun would really be a kick in the nards. I don't care who rises to the top, just as long as someone does. I'd like to keep beating AK based shotguns until I can't see well enough to not smash my hands and until those hands shake too bad to hold a punch, lol.

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i have one inbound for personal use. will let you all know. yes im going to torture it.

 

i will be looking at quite a number of things, and will keep my review from the lamers perspective.

 

im thinking of a lot of things to check on it, but am very excited to get it next week. ive been looking at this gun for a month now.

 

anyone wants me to check something specific, let me know, i will try to accomodate you. i will be checking metallurgy, among other things. trigger, parts fit, finish durability/heat, barrel lining, overall strength, magwell tolerances, etc lots of stuff.... stay tuned....

 

if you have questions put them in here, cause ill be checking next week folks.....

 

im even going to check the gas block and sights.....

 

it should be here next week, we shall see.....

 

BVamp

 

Edited by Bvamp
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I've had one in my shop for about a month now and haven't had time to do more than rack the slide a time or two, have a quick peek inside, and put it in the safe. I am retiring from my pool company in a few days and hope to celebrate that with the initial test of the Lynx and a KS-12. Both are brand new and unmodified. My goal is not to compare to the Saiga 12 but to see which of these is the best substitute for people considering an SBS build. All testing will be video documented. The plan is to put 2k rounds through each over a few sessions and see what happens.

Ben, I am glad someone else with a long history of understanding the Saiga 12 is digging in too. Maybe between the two of us we can figure out if the Lynx might be generally decent. I have only heard good about it, so far.

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ok preliminary results.

 

the safety is a piece of sheet metal shit. the stock is too short, it is a warsaw length stock, and not for modern man. the chrome lining is thin, but is there. when i rack the bolt, it actually makes a different noise than the saiga, due to thin and less hard/light metal. but i like it. ill knock it apart this weekend. the mag is off, blah blah. for 400 bucks, im already a fan, even if i put up negatives... i gotta do my thing yet, and knock it apart tomorrow, just give mew a minute.

 

the gas plug is interesting....its a four position with scoops taken out of it, i will have to see at the range whats up with that.

 

i got a low serial #, so take it with salt i guess. so far i think its a good gun....

 

i do like the fit and finish of it. its not as robust as the saiga12, but it fits well. 101_0033.thumb.JPG.e608779c688a7a36c3df72030b6abeef.JPG

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so ive been busy with the house and the hurricane, but i have been messing with this gun every night almost and looking closely at a number of things.

 

the front trunion isnt as beefy, but appears to be of a harder metal than the rear trunion. the rail spot welds are actually nearly perfect.

the importer has explained to me the biggest difference to this thing is the bolt and carrier which are not interchangeable with the saiga12. the bolt carrier and piston is one piece on this. its pretty robust, but i doubt if i mis-set the gas setting with 3" cannon rounds it will hold, like the saiga12 wont as well.

 

i still dont like the safety even though it operates very easily and smoothly. its positive, but really feels as if i can just rip it out.

 

the finish - i have decided to not do solvent or chemical tests to it. it seems to be a light powder coating and is easy to scratch , which i dont care about anyhow.

 

all rivets are well formed and mushroomed.

trigger is smooth, needs very little work to be what i consider to be perfect. bolt to hammer also same. will require very little to make perfect, impressed with how close the fcg is to where i like it.

 

trigger and hammer are in with a shepard's crook and not a cheap spring, i like.

optic rail appears to be in line, but sights appear slightly left. dont know yet until i slug fest it.

 

the recoil spring and piston are different, but appear to be adequate, again, will know more when i run it hard. i have some shells rusting as i write this....."dirty rotten nasty shotshells" post in mind, also frozen winter in mind....

 

i am still very happy with this gun, hopefully when i shoot it it doesnt let my hopes down. i dont think it will/ so far so good.....

Edited by Bvamp

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I ran exactly 5 rounds of Federal Multi-purpose in an OEM Saiga-12 mag through both the Lynx and the KS-12. Both were NIB and has nothing at all done to them, not even lube. Both ejected all five. I was kind of in a hurry to test fire some customer stuff and didn't have much time. I am going to see what they will eject with MD-20 drums and then get a couple thousand rounds of the strongest weak load that ejects in both. From there I will video document until I am out of ammo. I am not sure if I have 10 drums left or not, but it would be nice to do 2000 rounds in just 10 video clips.

 

ETA: If they both live through that, I'll test with some stronger loads, working up to some 3" loads. I'd like to get to 2k rounds in each by the end of the testing. If one breaks, I'll keep going with the other until it breaks or reaches 2k rounds.

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Actually the Lynx is beefier than the Saiga. It’s receiver is thicker.  The carrier and op rod (not the piston) are not one piece.  They are two separate pieces that seat very nicely together.  One of the main reasons some would break in the Saiga is because they didn’t fit nicely together and flopped around.  Some Saigas also sandwhiched the piston between the op rod and the gas regulator.  That put all the stress where the op rod screwed into carrier and some would crack. That combined with the play is where those cracks were coming from.  

 

The gas plug is lacking in design.  The 3 and 4 setting are no different in gas.  Yes, the 4th setting is substantial larger than the 3rd but the 3rd can handle more gas than the barrel ports can deliver...  That means that giant 4th setting in the plug is not doing anything but increasing the volume of the chamber and making it take longer to pressurize.  That 4th setting is actually hurting the effiecency of the gun with low power ammo even when the plug is set to the 3rd setting.

I tried to tell them how to make an even better gas plug than the V-plug was but it doesn’t appear they are going to.  I even sent them the CAD files for the V-Plug and told them exactly how.  Makes me scratch my head...

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Thanks for the updates! The lynx seems to be a decent alternative to the S-12 (alternative not 1:1 clone) and is priced reasonably.

Edited by Veprz

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Hello all! 

I'm new here and have a Lynx on the way. Im new to the SAIGA shotgun,  but after seeing a VEPR I am very interested. I bought this due to reviews, and price. I hope it turns out great.

I have purchased a muzzle break and new forearm with rails for it. I cant wait to try it out. 

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From the results on my initial testing of the Lynx, it looks like it may have some potential. Welcome aboard.

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I received mine two days ago. I shot it 10 times with the standard clip and some Federal #4 1 and 1/8 ounce without any trouble. Gun looks great, cycled well. I tried it without changing the gas settings, but will play with that this weekend. I noticed in video that setting 3 and 4 work well for birdshot. 

So far I upgraded the Front forearm, put a GK-01 (USA VERSION) muzzle break, and bought a front grip for it. It looks great. Love the gun, but like I said this is my first SAIGA style. 

I also bought a MD-20 drum, but have to file the tabs. Hope to get a lot of fun out of this gun

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Mike I see that K-USA isn't that great in your eyes, but has potential. I own a K-USA Shotgun and it had a couple of issues, it didn't like 00 Buck, it blew the dust cover into the shooters face, so we shot without the dust cover and 1 out of the 130 rounds fired was badly shredded. I sent it to the factory and they'll apply their upgrades to it, Johnathan Mossberg shut down production to focus on upgrades and they supposedly have many enhancements. I probably won't know what those are until I get it back on the 15th, but you are very knowledgeable with Saigas, What do you think is wrong with the shotguns coming from K-USA and what can I do to enhance my shotgun if it has issues? also I have heard you stopped making the 20 rd drums, with all of these Saiga 12 remakes coming in the states, do you plan to make more drums because I want to buy one. Honestly I love my shotgun and I have experienced great customer support, but as you said in previous posts the Saiga 12 platform is flawed, I feel that my shotgun will be over gassed on the hotter loads. I'll see when I test it out after receiving it in the mail.

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On 10/3/2018 at 5:44 AM, evlblkwpnz said:

which of these is the best substitute for people considering an SBS build. All testing will be video documented. The plan is to put 2k rounds through each over a few sessions and see what happens.

so, if folks arent aware, i think there is a real cool option in terms of SBS builds.  correct me if i get this wrong:

 

step 1: get your shotgun of choice

step 2: efile a form 1 for sbs.  they are allegedly sitting at 10 days turnaround time! 10 days!!! thats amazeballs!  i would do all kinds of stuff if it didnt require half of a years wait! 

step 3:  receive stamp back, engrave your trust or name or whatever is pertinent (what happens if you move? if you just put city and state if you dont havea trust?)

step 4:  chop barrel to whatever you like.

step 5: send to evl to actually make it work, assuming you go short and want gas block moved and op rod shortened

step 6: he makes it great like frosted flakes and gets it back to you, all while saving 7-9 months!!

 

like i said, im not sure how all this works, but thats what i read on (b)arfcom the other night...

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On 10/19/2018 at 9:14 AM, MikeD said:

I tried to tell them how to make an even better gas plug than the V-plug was but it doesn’t appear they are going to.  I even sent them the CAD files for the V-Plug and told them exactly how.  Makes me scratch my head...

send em to cnc warrior, he may be in the mood?  he does a lot for ak stuff i think....

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On ‎11‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 2:03 PM, saltydecimator said:

so, if folks arent aware, i think there is a real cool option in terms of SBS builds.  correct me if i get this wrong:

 

step 1: get your shotgun of choice

step 2: efile a form 1 for sbs.  they are allegedly sitting at 10 days turnaround time! 10 days!!! thats amazeballs!  i would do all kinds of stuff if it didnt require half of a years wait! 

step 3:  receive stamp back, engrave your trust or name or whatever is pertinent (what happens if you move? if you just put city and state if you dont havea trust?)

step 4:  chop barrel to whatever you like.

step 5: send to evl to actually make it work, assuming you go short and want gas block moved and op rod shortened

step 6: he makes it great like frosted flakes and gets it back to you, all while saving 7-9 months!!

 

like i said, im not sure how all this works, but thats what i read on (b)arfcom the other night...

I wish it all worked like that. Until I get caught up, it is make contact, get in line, wait, send the weapon in, wait, and finally enjoy it. After existing contracts are finished, my partner and I have decided to let the pool company hibernate until the market settles down. It has been a real thrown in the side for both of us. There is money there, but we're both over it. We may really love the break and close the company down altogether. We both have better things to do than build pools. Builds will move in and out much faster.

 

I am not fond of working on things after others, especially when they chop it, it doesn't run, and they have tried 'everything' (every bad idea, lol) and it still doesn't run. I've seen some really bad ideas implemented, even from other shops. It costs more that way. An un molested gun is the best starting point and will yield the best results. Chop and fire strong loads while you wait for intake is about the next best thing.

JXDelEN.png

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11 hours ago, evlblkwpnz said:

Chop and fire strong loads while you wait for intake is about the next best thing.

JXDelEN.png

oh ya thats what i meant.  but with this you are gonna always experience shennanigans, as folks try things....

i had one once that somene tried to shim up the booster piston with some black rubber substance... not really sure what they were trying to do, but it didnt work....  may have been jbweld.   they wanted it longer for some reason?

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I repaired one early on that had the trunnion welded in and an ACE type plate welded on the back, the barrel was supposed to be 8" but was 10-5/8", the bolt had been milled completely through to where the firing pin is (no clue what they were trying to achieve), barrel had a lot of ports in it, receiver cover was basically trash, and gas block was on with screws in it (yes, where the pins go). It didn't run at all and was basically ready to be scrapped. Hardly anything on it was any good. I brought it back. New barrel, new bolt, AK100 (with rivets, lol), and a lot of other corrective work. People do some stupid stuff and this was all done by another shop.

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woooooow!  think the bolt polishing is supposed to reduce the friction of the bolt turning on next round in magazine.... paully used to do that for folks i think...

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Is heavily leaning on purchasing one of these shotguns. I had read good things about them and seen a decent amout of videos on them running low brass right.out of the box with stick mags.  Price point is sweet too. I've found them.on GB for 419

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I see they have a hard chrome bolt carrier model now.  Which option would y’all choose and why . Or which would be best in your opinion.

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man i would just pony up the 300 more and find a slant back vepr 12.  something you can be proud of, not just happy you got a "good price".  i mean at 419 plus shipping xfer fee etc, you really close to the v12.... or search for a saiga on GB.  they go for around 450 if you patient.  or lucky.  or both.  or around 6 for impatient.  or look at local armslistings.  i just cant get on board with these chinese Matte Mystery Metal Machines.  they like a trojan horse, they hiding something inside, and its not a smooth chocolate center, hahahah...

 

did handle one in local gun store for 30 seconds tonight.  really not terrible. just not prideworthy....

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