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mitchbloom

1st Saiga 12, what do I have??

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So I inherited this from a family member who passed.  His kids weren't "gun" people, so I acquired it. I have more than my fair share of experience with the AR platform, but I've never been an AK guy or shotgun guy. 

 

I've done a little research, but I can't find much. My questions are:

 

1. I can tell this isn't "converted" but is it stock from the factory like this, or are the stock and muzzle brake aftermarket? 

 

2. I didn't get any magazines. With this not being "converted", am I limited to which mags to buy? 

 

Photos (hopefully this link works)

Any other info is appreciated. 

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922R was primarily made for importers and manufacturers.. And I would point out that no one is checking this stuff since the law would most likely get struck down in court for several reasons.. So really nothing to worry about..

The 922R information is kinda dated and in my opinion was overblown to sell "compliance parts"

 

But just for the heck of it, let's imagine we care about 922r:

It's normally stated that the Saiga-12 has 15 counted parts, goal is 10 or less imported counted parts.. Three are in the magazine, one is in the stock, I think that stock is USA made, odds are the rail is as well and it is counted, The muzzle device is added, so if it is imported then you need to either remove it or swap another part. If it says USA you are good to go on that part as well. Odds are you are at or below 10 counted parts and are good to go with all magazines made in the USA, which is most of the ones on the market, and all of the ones that are not stupid expensive.

I make the steel ones..

Edited by csspecs

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11 minutes ago, csspecs said:

922R was primarily made for importers and manufacturers.. And I would point out that no one is checking this stuff since the law would most likely get struck down in court for several reasons.. So really nothing to worry about..

The 922R information is kinda dated and in my opinion was overblown to sell "compliance parts"

 

But just for the heck of it, let's imagine we care about 922r:

It's normally stated that the Saiga-12 has 15 counted parts, goal is 10 or less imported counted parts.. Three are in the magazine, one is in the stock, I think that stock is USA made, odds are the rail is as well and it is counted, The muzzle device is added, so if it is imported then you need to either remove it or swap another part. If it says USA you are good to go on that part as well. Odds are you are at or below 10 counted parts and are good to go with all magazines made in the USA, which is most of the ones on the market, and all of the ones that are not stupid expensive.

I make the steel ones..

Thanks! 

This is the kind of info I was looking for. Now to find some mags. Not sure what to do with this, other than a range toy. 

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Get some rounds down range.. Either you will find a use for it or you won't..

Mine gets used for grouse hunting in swamps from time to time.. And it went out for a couple hog hunts on an air boat.. Otherwise it is a range toy.. I normally use 5 round magazines with mine.. Five rounds is more than you can realistically use hunting, because all game animals are long gone by then. At the range I'll use the 10s or 20 round drum..

For home defense, I can't see anyone sticking around for 6-10 rounds of buckshot.. They are either dead or running away by round five... But my home defense is a pistol, with an AR-15 as the carbine, and a Ruger PC9 as the back ups back up.. But it is up to you.

Edited by csspecs

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As you noted yours is not converted. It still has the teeter totter trigger and the stock is probably a Tapco unit. For just a little bit of effort you can make the trigger work much better and also get a better stock configuration on the gun. Carolina Shooters Supply has some great videos on their site and they are also a great source for any parts you may need. 

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If you're so inclined and haven't done so yet, check out Moe Zambeak's guide to conversion.  It's the seventh pinned post and has a lot of good information. When I first got my S12, it was in its original (import) configuration. With the help of his post, I was able to complete the conversion to a configuration that is more user friendly, and, theoretically, won't run afoul of 922r (see the post (pinned) about 922r). It also gave me a better understanding of how it is put together an how it works.

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Keep the legal concept of conversion for 922r purposes separate in your mind from where the pistol grip is mounted. People tend to call both things conversions and that gives confusion.

Yours could be converted depending on what trigger group, puck and magazines you use It starts with 15 parts and you need to eliminate 5 of them to use any mag. So 3 are the trigger group, 1 can be the puck, another the pistol grip and you are golden. even with the goofy stock.

It is worth doing it right, though, and moving the pistol grip to the correct place. It will make the balance point way better, and put all the controls where they ought to be in relation to your hand. It turns a pretty good gun into a well thought out gun.

Moe's thread was good when it came out, but there are easier ways to do the things, with cleaner results now, due to more experimentation and parts support. If you do a proper restoration to a conventional layout, the big deal is to profile the hammer correctly so that you aren't adding drag to the operating system. It isn't hard if you are handy, and most of the "drop in" trigger groups have kinda crappy fit and geometry, because they are one "size kinda fits all" rather than "tailored to your gun."

Follow the link in my signature line to save yourself some trouble.

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Ah crap. They deleted my signature links. Now I have to find the threads.

Here is the hammer and trigger group profile thread 

 

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Here is the thread which explains in the simplest terms how 922r works for the end user. 

 

 

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On 8/21/2019 at 10:21 AM, mitchbloom said:

Thanks! 

This is the kind of info I was looking for. Now to find some mags. Not sure what to do with this, other than a range toy. 

You should not take away that 922r does not apply to you. It does. The statutory language is based on assembly, and the definitions for that statute consider inserting a magazine assembly. The fact that you are not the importer, or original manufacturer, or gun store doesn't get you off the hook. The law is stupid, but that is what the law is. (I am a lawyer, and I did the actual work to parse out the statutory application. I've also read court rulings which would bear on the matter. This is one of those few places where dropping credentials is legitimate.)

p.s. CSSPecs makes excellent magazines, and is a very upright business. I wholeheartedly endorse their products. I also like the SGM mags.They've both got positives. The rock and lock gun has a Csspecs mag in it all the time, because it is completely trustworthy. The other one would have a CSSPecs mag if I had one that fit its magwell. Get a 3 pack of the steel 10 rounders, and you will be happy.

If you feed this gun with quality ammo, such as #4 or #1 buckshot at 1325 FPS or faster, you have a superb home defense gun with near unbeatable fire power, and optimal ballistics.

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