S-.308 over a FN/FAL?

[Mudsock 0]

I've been getting the itch to buy a .308 but want to hear some good auguments about why I should get an S-.308 over an FN. High capacity mags are available for the FN and to convert a S-.308 to a pistol/assault look will cost just under getting an FN.

Edited March 9, 2006 by Mudsock

[ranger55 0]

I've been getting the itch to buy a .308 but want to hear some good auguments about why I should get an S-.308 over an FN. High capacity mags are available for the FN and to convert a S-.308 to a pistol/assault look will cost just under getting an FN.

 

I love my Saiga12's but there is no way I would buy a Saiga 308 Instead of a FN. Not in the same league in my opion. Not saying I would not own both but if I had only one it would be the FN. It's more money but worth it.

[KySoldier 2]

I think the S-308 is more in the category of the Romak 3 and other stretched AKs. The FAL is in the battle rifle category like the HK91. I'd recommend getting both. Which ever deal come along first go for it. That's what I've done. I've had the S-308 for a couple years and now have an SA58 on the way.

[greatmoose 4]

Be VERY careful of the cheaper FALs. The vast majority that are under $600 are built by Century, and are generally considered pieces of crap, althought there are exceptions. Best place for info is www.falfiles.com/forums . If cost is a factor, go the S-308 route. You can convert one to PG for around $400 total, and the cheapest Centuries (the R1A1) is around $500, and will probably need some work to get to where you want it. But hey, if you want a FAL, get one. It's your gun, and you should do what you want. Good luck!

[Unknown Poster 5]

I like the saiga 308win its affordable plus its a brand new russian quality manufactured AK designed rifle in a sporter wrapper. I'm very happy with it in its orginal condition too. For its $307 OTD price tag its unmatched. I own a century cetme already and i see what kind of work they do and i would never buy another century built gun. I vote for the russian izhmash saiga all the way and i expect nothing but the highest quality to come out of russia. Its reliable, dependable, accurate and cycles flawlessly. I guess i'm the only one who doesn't care about the 8rd mag too. If it had a larger mag i'd go thru more 308ammo ammo faster so it saves me $$$ having the smaller mag.

 

I think its time to collect a few "BRAND NEW" quality russian saiga's!!!!!!!!! I'd take a brand new russian rifle over anything well used/converted put together anyday. So go ahead and get both and i'll bet you end up shooting the saiga more.......

Edited March 10, 2006 by Unknown Poster

[Mudsock 0]

Thanks for the replies. I saw a FN for about $600 on militarygun dot whatever and their rifles were Centry's. Although you can get .308 mags what good is having an extra 12 shots if the firles aren't up to snuff? I think I would like to go the converted S-.308 for the money, about $710 plus transfer ($359 Stanley's Sports + $350 conversion).

[KySoldier 2]

Good choice. $350 spent on converting is alot though, think of the money you could save if you followed the tutorial here.

[danny boy 0]

Yeah, man its way too easy to not do it yourself. Especially when some scam artists are trying to get that kind of money out of it.

[Mudsock 0]

Yeah. I've seen $350 to $450 for a conversion. I talked to a buddy of mine who said that after you work out the bugs with the Centry's you should have a good shooter but I've read that out of the box the S.308 will make it happen. He swares by the FAL he put together. I'm looking to do this:

Edited March 11, 2006 by Mudsock

[KySoldier 2]

You can get an FAL at an affordable price, but you just have to make sure the kit is built on a quality receiver. An Imbel, DSA, Coonan, etc. Not Hesse or Century.

[BattleRifleG3 16]

All of the above points are good, ie reliability, past use, and other factors making a FAL not as good as a S-308, most of which are newer than the parts on most FAL builds by Century. A reputable FAL build will be a bit more expensive than the Century versions.

 

Other factors in the favor of the Saiga-308 - Accuracy. 1.5moa I hear is standard from them, and often that's shot with open sites. A military FAL won't do that even fresh off the press. Also reliability. The FAL by design is rather reliable, but still not as good as the AK system. FAL experts will tell you how to treat a FAL to make it the most reliable, possibly involving a bit of breaking in. A Saiga-308 isn't so picky. Consider the price of ammo and the cost of a FAL goes up if it takes a bit of shooting to smooth it out. Finally, and I could be wrong but don't think so, the S-308 is up to the full power sporting loads of 308 Winchester, while the FAL is most responsibly used with 7.62x51mm NATO ammo. Also, I may be wrong about this too, but I believe the FAL is heavier than the S-308.

 

So basically a Saiga-308 is better in EVERY way than a FAL EXCEPT the magazine. One reason I've been so interested in developing a safe and effective hi-cap conversion. But even with 8 rounds the S-308 is excellent. That said, I certainly have a place in my heart for the FAL. I might suggest that a Saiga-308 be used for sporting purposes over the FAL, being more convenient, and that reliability is important there same as in military purposes.

[Mudsock 0]

Thanks for the advice Battle. I love the AK action and will pursue a .308 in that. What is the experience with anyone with the VEPR II .308?

Edited March 12, 2006 by Mudsock

[G O B 3,516]

The Veepers are cool, but not worth 2 S-.308's! For the same $$ as one Veeper get a 20" S-.308 woodie and a 16" S-.308 plastick furniture and convert it. Best of both worlds.

 

G O B

[KySoldier 2]

I do like the heaviness of the VEPRs, everything about it is beefier than the Saigas. Don't care for the stock though.

[Falcon73 0]

I also debated the Saiga vs. FAL rifles, and here I am with a Saiga. For less than $500 with a do-it-yourself conversion, nothing else comes close. One issue which hasn't been mentioned is folding stocks. The FAL-type rifle has a "rat tail" which extends from the back of the receiver into the buttstock. Much like the buffer tube on an AR15, this prevents the use of folding stocks. You can work around this with Paratrooper-type FAL receiver parts, but those parts alone they will cost as much as the Saiga .308. Folding stocks are fair game with a proper US parts count conversion (assuming you aren't stuck in a location that forbids them). Also, the Saiga is the lightest .308 without getting into DSA aluminum FAL's (big $). The unconverted Saiga trigger might even be as bad (heavy pull, imprecise) as the FAL trigger. However, Saiga trigger feel with an aftermarket trigger is excellent - far superior to the FALs or CETME/HK's I've experienced. The Saiga is a completely new-in-box rifle versus the parts kit rifle you will be getting in a FAL or CETME/HK. To me, the only rifles that get close to a converted Saiga for overall desireability are the new DPMS .308 carbine, a DSA SA58 parts gun, or the new US-made PTR-91's, all of which can be had around $1000. Any of the last ones mentioned will likely serve you well, but the Saiga does it for less and accepts folding stocks. Still, the Saiga magazine limitation continues to frustrate us all. Good luck on your decision.

[Mudsock 0]

I'm made up. I'm getting the S-.308 as soon as I can get down to American Outdoor Sports and put the order in.

[finlander 3]

[PanchoVilla 0]

If accuracy is the most important thing, I would imagine that the VEPR is where you'd want to go.

 

Magazines also aren't an issue because someone is making hicaps, huzzah!

[okie shooter 0]

[finlander 3]

If you mean the Valmet M-76 when asking if we can own them the way they are, well, as long as it isn't full-auto and the total lenght of the gun is over 84cm (~33") there should be no problems getting a license for any rifle. Shorter rifles and shotguns (folding stock, bullpup) require a special license that's harder to get. Haven't seen any Valmets in .308 (expect the hunting version) for sale, though.

 

Well, I just thought that if I'd buy the Saiga I could buy reloading accessory with the money I saved. Or just ammunition. I don't reload yet but I'd like to start. What kind of accuracy one can expect from Saiga at 100y with right load?

Edited June 18, 2006 by finlander

[Pointer 21]

This is my FAL carbine built by Ohio Rapid Fire on a Imbel reciever,it is my main go to rifle.At the time i payed around $550.00 a few years ago,a heck of a deal now if they could start making them again .I have like 30 mags and 3000 rds put away.My Saiga 308 is set up as a long range sniper type gun.If i had to choose id go with the Fal in this configuration with a good 16" Saiga conversion right on its tail.

[Kyrinn 0]

What kind of accuracy one can expect from Saiga at 100y with right load?

Hi,

 

Using military surplus, and no rest, I was grouping 5 to 7.5cm. Erratic.

 

However, when using 175gr. Black Hills, also no bench-rest, I was getting between 2.5 and 4cm groupings.

I'm certain that bench-rested with similar quality and weighty ammunition, one could get grouping tighter than 2.5cm with ease at that 91.75m range.

 

(I don't get to go metric too often)

 

Best,

[finlander 3]

Well, if the rifle's able to shoot, say, 5cm groups at 100m consistently with factory ammo it's (-looks at dictionary-) sufficient accuracy.

 

Is any "filing" needed when I (maybe) get the Saiga? Any tinkering needed to bring out the best accuracy?

[O.S.O.K. 0]

NO - the Saigas are accurate right out of the box - of course, the triggers are poor and a pistol grip conversion with say, Red Star fcg will make it a lot easier to produce the tight groups.

[finlander 3]

When it comes to trigger, is it big deal to make it better?

[Freightman 0]

The trigger will improve with a USA made FCG when you convert it, I still get surprised with mine goes off before I expect it. Great for accuracy as that is the way we teach a new archer using a release you are supose to be suprised.

[O.S.O.K. 0]

Finlander: Just to be specific, the rifle needs to be converted to a pistol grip/buttstock configuration in order to improve the trigger. There is nothing "wrong" with the stock parts, just the long trigger extension design. This requires replacing the fire control group with an after-market set (or, it you dont' otherwise need to add non-imported parts, I think just the trigger can be replaced as the hammer and disconnector are proper) So you could probably just get a new trigger.

 

Red Star (Power Custom) offers a really nice fire control set for the Vepr and Saiga .308 which has the correct hammer and is fully adjustable - you can adjust to make a two-stage with whatever let-off that you want, overtravel can be adjusted to zero, and you can also adjust it to a single-stage trigger - whatever trigger weight you want.

 

Here in the US we usualy replace the whole fire control group (3 parts) along with a us-made buttstock and pistol grip to bring the countable imported parts on the gun down to 10 - to be in compliance with our 922r law.

 

If you don't have such a silly law to worry about, then I would recommend just getting a new trigger.

Edited June 24, 2006 by O.S.O.K.

[finlander 3]

As I said above, there's no other restrictions than that the rifle isn't full-auto and barrel's at least 40cm long and the total lenght of rifle is over 84cm. It doesn't matter if it's Brazilian made Imbel FAL or Finnish Valmet. But then there's that that we have to get license/permit for every gun we buy and it's pretty pricey, 32 euros (~39$) and and difficult on some occasions.

 

So the trigger is lenghtened on the thumbhole stock version too, not only in the hunting style stock version?

[finlander 3]

So, Saiga it is. I bought a used Saiga 308-2 (bipod included) for 350e from an internet auction. Next week I'll see what it's like. If it's as good as the seller said I think I got a pretty good deal. For that price it for sure beats the FAL and Vepr.

 

Edit: It wasn't model 308-1 that I bought (hunting stock) but 308-2 (thumbhole stock).

Edited July 3, 2006 by finlander

[O.S.O.K. 0]

You'll like it!

 

Don't forget to post some pics of it!