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S-.308 over a FN/FAL?


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Well, I got the S-308 about a month ago. Haven't even shot it yet. Ordered the parts to convert it to the darkside. Bottom line. It's an AK-308! As much as my buddy loves his FAL's, I like the idea that I can f-around with it in my basement and configure it the way I want it.

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The Saigas .308 is based on the Kalashnikov design which proved itself during the 1967 Six Day War where the FN FALs failed in the desert sand and Israeli soldiers picked up AKs from dead Arab soldiers and used them. The AK magazine is sturdier at the lips than the FN magazine.

 

The British and Australian FNs (SLRs) have a sand groove in the bolt and receiver to alleviate the problem the Israeli army experienced with their rifles which led to the Israeli army adopting the Galil rifle which was based on the Valmet AK and has a bottle opener because in 1967 most drinks were in bottles and thirsty soldiers used their magazines to open bottles and bent the FN magazine lips.

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The Saiga with 16 inch barrel is shorter, lighter, and handier that the FAL. If the Saiga hi-cap mag issue is resolved, as I hope, the Saiga will be a very attractive option in the .308 semi-automatic field. The Saiga is new and relatively inexpensive. Most of the FALs and Cetmes are parts guns constructed with used parts. The totally new rifles are expensive. I have two FALs and love them but the Saiga is much handier.

 

Monomonk

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OK, first time on range with Saiga. Best groups with Magtech 180gr FMC were about 4". South African surplus about 6". But I'm sure that the rifle will do better as the shooter gets used to it. Recoil was very comfortable.

 

I try to get some pics as soon as possible.

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OK, first time on range with Saiga. Best groups with Magtech 180gr FMC were about 4". South African surplus about 6". But I'm sure that the rifle will do better as the shooter gets used to it. Recoil was very comfortable.

 

I try to get some pics as soon as possible.

 

Was that open sites or scoped? Excellent if open sites. Are you gonna scope it? What kind of optics are available over there?

Edited by Pointer
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Was that open sites or scoped? Excellent if open sites. Are you gonna scope it? What kind of optics are available over there?

 

Yes, I shot those groups with open sights. I probably keep it the way it is now as I like shooting with open sights more than with scope. More challenging!

 

Edit: Few questions: being a total newbie to the AK based weapons I'd like to know if it's OK to dry fire the Saiga? Usually it isn't good to do that but how about AK's? The manual told not to dry fire if it isn't really necessary, whatever that means? Are replacement parts easily available for .308 Saigas (from what I've read here I doubt if I'll be needing any but if...)? Where can I get an windage adjustable rear sight that fits Saiga?

Edited by finlander
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Went to the range today, got 3" 10 shot group with Remington 150gr FMJ. Had to put some cloth between shoulder and buttstock of rifle, 40 rounds shot from bench yesterday wearing just t-shirt had left my shoulder a little sore.

 

Is a recoil buffer must-have in Saiga? What would be good material to make one from?

 

BTW, the barrel becomes damn hot after quickly shooting 20 rounds!

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BTW, the barrel becomes damn hot after quickly shooting 20 rounds!

 

 

If you allow the barrel to remain COLD... shoot... WAIT... shoot... WAIT A BIT MORE... etc..etc...

 

I am willing to bet your group will tighten up!!

 

 

:smoke:

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Went to the range today, got 3" 10 shot group with Remington 150gr FMJ. Had to put some cloth between shoulder and buttstock of rifle, 40 rounds shot from bench yesterday wearing just t-shirt had left my shoulder a little sore.

 

Is a recoil buffer must-have in Saiga? What would be good material to make one from?

 

BTW, the barrel becomes damn hot after quickly shooting 20 rounds!

 

 

When it comes to recoil buffers I make my own out of 1/4 inch rubber gasket material they don't last all that long but they work.

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If you allow the barrel to remain COLD... shoot... WAIT... shoot... WAIT A BIT MORE... etc..etc...

 

I am willing to bet your group will tighten up!!

 

It probably will, have to try. Though it isn't practical accuracy that can be tested that way.

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Though it isn't practical accuracy that can be tested that way

 

That is true... However it WILL allow you to realize the "potential" of the rifle...

 

Obviously, the FIRST shot is the most important shot. I cant see what you will need to be shooting that fast at, at such a range, that POI tweaking due to heat will become a factor.

 

If in competition, I would assume the ranges for rifle are relatively close? and an inch or two shouldnt make much difference... If it is a hunting aspect, of several hundred yards... if one needs to be blasting full mags at something to get it... They would do better to spend more time practicing... or give up hunting altogether...

First shot should be the only one needed for a hunting scenario...hopefully...

 

Just my 2 cents....

 

:smoke:

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Though it isn't practical accuracy that can be tested that way

 

That is true... However it WILL allow you to realize the "potential" of the rifle...

 

Obviously, the FIRST shot is the most important shot. I cant see what you will need to be shooting that fast at, at such a range, that POI tweaking due to heat will become a factor.

 

If in competition, I would assume the ranges for rifle are relatively close? and an inch or two shouldnt make much difference... If it is a hunting aspect, of several hundred yards... if one needs to be blasting full mags at something to get it... They would do better to spend more time practicing... or give up hunting altogether...

First shot should be the only one needed for a hunting scenario...hopefully...

 

Just my 2 cents....

 

:smoke:

 

At our Practical rifle, the ranges are 10" plates up to 250-300 yards. Of course, there's always the IDPA targets that need to be double tapped at about 6 feet too.

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Here the mag capacity is limited to 2rounds when hunting. So practical accuracy is tested (or I do test) with 3 shots (of course one should be enough, but if game is just injured you're able to finish it quickly).

 

Strange thing happened today on range (have to go there every day now, can't let new toy to just gather dust). So, I was shooting there all alone getting 4-5" groups with SA surplus (100m range) Then some motocross bikers who had been driving in the woods nearby came there "just to see what's going on". We then chat there for some time and they watch as I shoot two mags (SA surplus). Then I go and check the targets, both 8rd groups were about 2" with only one flier!

Edited by finlander
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yes, it does. Standard AK cover.

 

You could just get a low-rise side rail mount - and a screw-on aperture site - will be much much more stable and the zero won't wander like a cover mounted one will. The cover is just held in place by spring pressure... that would allow you to install a scope too if desired.

 

Speaking of hunting - do you hunt afoot or from a stand? Moose?

 

I bet some good Lapua hunting ammo would shoot even smaller groups for you.

Edited by O.S.O.K.
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NoAim does your Practical Rifle rules require a double tap with a 308? Most places consider one 308 hit sufficient to do the job. That is why I'm going to get a 308 this fall!

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yes, it does. Standard AK cover.

 

You could just get a low-rise side rail mount - and a screw-on aperture site - will be much much more stable and the zero won't wander like a cover mounted one will. The cover is just held in place by spring pressure... that would allow you to install a scope too if desired.

 

Speaking of hunting - do you hunt afoot or from a stand? Moose?

 

I bet some good Lapua hunting ammo would shoot even smaller groups for you.

 

Thought about that side rail too but don't really like the looks of the rifle that way. More stable it would be than cover mounted, for sure.

 

Yep, moose hunting it is going to be. Have been hunting small game mainly but this or next year I'm going to participate in moose hunt.

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Screw the conversion just get the orginal 16" barreled saiga with the skeleton stock. They are really neat plus they look and feel great too and they come new that way from russia.

 

 

I have shot a few different 308's and the saiga will rock them all except one a select fire M14 but we can own a lot of saiga's for the $9,000 price tag of the select fire m14. I was close to buying a new SA M1A for $1,200 when i got my first saiga. I purchased a few 308 saiga's instaed of getting an M1a and springfield armory is having so many quality problems were not sure of getting a good one for $1,200 they can keep there crap. I refuse to purchase a new gun and have to have it reworked to make it right and accurate. The Fulton Armory M14 is the way to go but its $2,200 too. Lets see $399 for a saiga 308 that functions properly and is very accurate over a $2,000 gun? If i was shooting in competitions it would matter but i'm a plinker and hunter so why spend that much cash on one gun. The bottomline is the 308 saiga will do what most of us want it to do hands down at a very affordable price.

 

I contacted wolf gun springs about a stronger recoil spring for the saiga's and they gave me a phone number to call to talk with one of there guys about my needs but i never followed up on it yet. I say get a stronger recoil spring rather than use buffers. With buffers we playing with shortening the stroke to make the over travel less rather than tune the rifle to the ammo were using. I wish the saiga had an adjustable gas system thats what is missing.

Edited by Unknown Poster
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yes, it does. Standard AK cover.

 

You could just get a low-rise side rail mount - and a screw-on aperture site - will be much much more stable and the zero won't wander like a cover mounted one will. The cover is just held in place by spring pressure... that would allow you to install a scope too if desired.

 

Speaking of hunting - do you hunt afoot or from a stand? Moose?

 

I bet some good Lapua hunting ammo would shoot even smaller groups for you.

 

Thought about that side rail too but don't really like the looks of the rifle that way. More stable it would be than cover mounted, for sure.

 

Yep, moose hunting it is going to be. Have been hunting small game mainly but this or next year I'm going to participate in moose hunt.

 

Well, you may want to try a rear-sight replacement with a windage-adjustable aperture sight. I would rather the aperture be closer to my eye, but others like them.

 

And when moose hunting, do you drive the moose and hunt on foot? Or do you hunt from a stand (tower, box blind, etc.)?

 

Oh, also - you state that you can only have two rounds - do you have to block the magazine so it will not accept more than one round?

 

Just curious. :)

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