BlenderWizard 12 Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 However, also consider this. Buy a Saiga, convert it, and buy 6 20 round magazines. Then buy a FAL and 6 mags for it, and the prices for the two rifles are suddenly not that far apart. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mudsock 0 Posted July 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 Well, I got the S-308 about a month ago. Haven't even shot it yet. Ordered the parts to convert it to the darkside. Bottom line. It's an AK-308! As much as my buddy loves his FAL's, I like the idea that I can f-around with it in my basement and configure it the way I want it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uzitiger 193 Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 The Saigas .308 is based on the Kalashnikov design which proved itself during the 1967 Six Day War where the FN FALs failed in the desert sand and Israeli soldiers picked up AKs from dead Arab soldiers and used them. The AK magazine is sturdier at the lips than the FN magazine. The British and Australian FNs (SLRs) have a sand groove in the bolt and receiver to alleviate the problem the Israeli army experienced with their rifles which led to the Israeli army adopting the Galil rifle which was based on the Valmet AK and has a bottle opener because in 1967 most drinks were in bottles and thirsty soldiers used their magazines to open bottles and bent the FN magazine lips. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
monomonk 0 Posted July 1, 2006 Report Share Posted July 1, 2006 The Saiga with 16 inch barrel is shorter, lighter, and handier that the FAL. If the Saiga hi-cap mag issue is resolved, as I hope, the Saiga will be a very attractive option in the .308 semi-automatic field. The Saiga is new and relatively inexpensive. Most of the FALs and Cetmes are parts guns constructed with used parts. The totally new rifles are expensive. I have two FALs and love them but the Saiga is much handier. Monomonk Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted July 4, 2006 Report Share Posted July 4, 2006 The Saiga with 16 inch barrel is shorter, lighter, and handier that the FAL. Monomonk My FAL has a 16in barrel and shortened gas system and mags are like $4/ea But normally you'd be right. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
finlander 3 Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 OK, first time on range with Saiga. Best groups with Magtech 180gr FMC were about 4". South African surplus about 6". But I'm sure that the rifle will do better as the shooter gets used to it. Recoil was very comfortable. I try to get some pics as soon as possible. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
finlander 3 Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 (edited) Here's few pics of my Saiga. Edited July 5, 2006 by finlander Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kyrinn 0 Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 Gorgeous wood. Neat FH. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kresk 10,063 Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 Very impressive--beautiful furniture! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spaker 0 Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 I love that wood stock, finlander. Where did you get it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
finlander 3 Posted July 5, 2006 Report Share Posted July 5, 2006 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mudsock 0 Posted July 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 That is one sexy firearm! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Pointer 21 Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 (edited) OK, first time on range with Saiga. Best groups with Magtech 180gr FMC were about 4". South African surplus about 6". But I'm sure that the rifle will do better as the shooter gets used to it. Recoil was very comfortable. I try to get some pics as soon as possible. Was that open sites or scoped? Excellent if open sites. Are you gonna scope it? What kind of optics are available over there? Edited July 6, 2006 by Pointer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
O.S.O.K. 0 Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 Nice! The wood looks terrific. Congratulations! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 That is a great looking weapon! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
finlander 3 Posted July 6, 2006 Report Share Posted July 6, 2006 (edited) Was that open sites or scoped? Excellent if open sites. Are you gonna scope it? What kind of optics are available over there? Yes, I shot those groups with open sights. I probably keep it the way it is now as I like shooting with open sights more than with scope. More challenging! Edit: Few questions: being a total newbie to the AK based weapons I'd like to know if it's OK to dry fire the Saiga? Usually it isn't good to do that but how about AK's? The manual told not to dry fire if it isn't really necessary, whatever that means? Are replacement parts easily available for .308 Saigas (from what I've read here I doubt if I'll be needing any but if...)? Where can I get an windage adjustable rear sight that fits Saiga? Edited July 6, 2006 by finlander Quote Link to post Share on other sites
finlander 3 Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 Went to the range today, got 3" 10 shot group with Remington 150gr FMJ. Had to put some cloth between shoulder and buttstock of rifle, 40 rounds shot from bench yesterday wearing just t-shirt had left my shoulder a little sore. Is a recoil buffer must-have in Saiga? What would be good material to make one from? BTW, the barrel becomes damn hot after quickly shooting 20 rounds! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,184 Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 BTW, the barrel becomes damn hot after quickly shooting 20 rounds! If you allow the barrel to remain COLD... shoot... WAIT... shoot... WAIT A BIT MORE... etc..etc... I am willing to bet your group will tighten up!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 Went to the range today, got 3" 10 shot group with Remington 150gr FMJ. Had to put some cloth between shoulder and buttstock of rifle, 40 rounds shot from bench yesterday wearing just t-shirt had left my shoulder a little sore. Is a recoil buffer must-have in Saiga? What would be good material to make one from? BTW, the barrel becomes damn hot after quickly shooting 20 rounds! When it comes to recoil buffers I make my own out of 1/4 inch rubber gasket material they don't last all that long but they work. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
finlander 3 Posted July 7, 2006 Report Share Posted July 7, 2006 If you allow the barrel to remain COLD... shoot... WAIT... shoot... WAIT A BIT MORE... etc..etc... I am willing to bet your group will tighten up!! It probably will, have to try. Though it isn't practical accuracy that can be tested that way. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,184 Posted July 8, 2006 Report Share Posted July 8, 2006 Though it isn't practical accuracy that can be tested that way That is true... However it WILL allow you to realize the "potential" of the rifle... Obviously, the FIRST shot is the most important shot. I cant see what you will need to be shooting that fast at, at such a range, that POI tweaking due to heat will become a factor. If in competition, I would assume the ranges for rifle are relatively close? and an inch or two shouldnt make much difference... If it is a hunting aspect, of several hundred yards... if one needs to be blasting full mags at something to get it... They would do better to spend more time practicing... or give up hunting altogether... First shot should be the only one needed for a hunting scenario...hopefully... Just my 2 cents.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NoAim 0 Posted July 8, 2006 Report Share Posted July 8, 2006 Though it isn't practical accuracy that can be tested that way That is true... However it WILL allow you to realize the "potential" of the rifle... Obviously, the FIRST shot is the most important shot. I cant see what you will need to be shooting that fast at, at such a range, that POI tweaking due to heat will become a factor. If in competition, I would assume the ranges for rifle are relatively close? and an inch or two shouldnt make much difference... If it is a hunting aspect, of several hundred yards... if one needs to be blasting full mags at something to get it... They would do better to spend more time practicing... or give up hunting altogether... First shot should be the only one needed for a hunting scenario...hopefully... Just my 2 cents.... At our Practical rifle, the ranges are 10" plates up to 250-300 yards. Of course, there's always the IDPA targets that need to be double tapped at about 6 feet too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
finlander 3 Posted July 8, 2006 Report Share Posted July 8, 2006 (edited) Here the mag capacity is limited to 2rounds when hunting. So practical accuracy is tested (or I do test) with 3 shots (of course one should be enough, but if game is just injured you're able to finish it quickly). Strange thing happened today on range (have to go there every day now, can't let new toy to just gather dust). So, I was shooting there all alone getting 4-5" groups with SA surplus (100m range) Then some motocross bikers who had been driving in the woods nearby came there "just to see what's going on". We then chat there for some time and they watch as I shoot two mags (SA surplus). Then I go and check the targets, both 8rd groups were about 2" with only one flier! Edited July 8, 2006 by finlander Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Kyrinn 0 Posted July 8, 2006 Report Share Posted July 8, 2006 Perhaps he was Väinämöinen in disguise, and gave you his blessing. More likely, you were relaxed and confident, and that's why you scored better. Best, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
finlander 3 Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 Does 7.62x39 AK receiver cover fit Saiga .308? If it doesn't where to look for one that fits .308? I'd like to try to add a peep sight to the cover but I'd like to leave the original cover as it is so needs another one! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
O.S.O.K. 0 Posted July 11, 2006 Report Share Posted July 11, 2006 (edited) yes, it does. Standard AK cover. You could just get a low-rise side rail mount - and a screw-on aperture site - will be much much more stable and the zero won't wander like a cover mounted one will. The cover is just held in place by spring pressure... that would allow you to install a scope too if desired. Speaking of hunting - do you hunt afoot or from a stand? Moose? I bet some good Lapua hunting ammo would shoot even smaller groups for you. Edited July 11, 2006 by O.S.O.K. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 NoAim does your Practical Rifle rules require a double tap with a 308? Most places consider one 308 hit sufficient to do the job. That is why I'm going to get a 308 this fall! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
finlander 3 Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 yes, it does. Standard AK cover. You could just get a low-rise side rail mount - and a screw-on aperture site - will be much much more stable and the zero won't wander like a cover mounted one will. The cover is just held in place by spring pressure... that would allow you to install a scope too if desired. Speaking of hunting - do you hunt afoot or from a stand? Moose? I bet some good Lapua hunting ammo would shoot even smaller groups for you. Thought about that side rail too but don't really like the looks of the rifle that way. More stable it would be than cover mounted, for sure. Yep, moose hunting it is going to be. Have been hunting small game mainly but this or next year I'm going to participate in moose hunt. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Unknown Poster 5 Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 (edited) Screw the conversion just get the orginal 16" barreled saiga with the skeleton stock. They are really neat plus they look and feel great too and they come new that way from russia. I have shot a few different 308's and the saiga will rock them all except one a select fire M14 but we can own a lot of saiga's for the $9,000 price tag of the select fire m14. I was close to buying a new SA M1A for $1,200 when i got my first saiga. I purchased a few 308 saiga's instaed of getting an M1a and springfield armory is having so many quality problems were not sure of getting a good one for $1,200 they can keep there crap. I refuse to purchase a new gun and have to have it reworked to make it right and accurate. The Fulton Armory M14 is the way to go but its $2,200 too. Lets see $399 for a saiga 308 that functions properly and is very accurate over a $2,000 gun? If i was shooting in competitions it would matter but i'm a plinker and hunter so why spend that much cash on one gun. The bottomline is the 308 saiga will do what most of us want it to do hands down at a very affordable price. I contacted wolf gun springs about a stronger recoil spring for the saiga's and they gave me a phone number to call to talk with one of there guys about my needs but i never followed up on it yet. I say get a stronger recoil spring rather than use buffers. With buffers we playing with shortening the stroke to make the over travel less rather than tune the rifle to the ammo were using. I wish the saiga had an adjustable gas system thats what is missing. Edited July 12, 2006 by Unknown Poster Quote Link to post Share on other sites
O.S.O.K. 0 Posted July 12, 2006 Report Share Posted July 12, 2006 yes, it does. Standard AK cover. You could just get a low-rise side rail mount - and a screw-on aperture site - will be much much more stable and the zero won't wander like a cover mounted one will. The cover is just held in place by spring pressure... that would allow you to install a scope too if desired. Speaking of hunting - do you hunt afoot or from a stand? Moose? I bet some good Lapua hunting ammo would shoot even smaller groups for you. Thought about that side rail too but don't really like the looks of the rifle that way. More stable it would be than cover mounted, for sure. Yep, moose hunting it is going to be. Have been hunting small game mainly but this or next year I'm going to participate in moose hunt. Well, you may want to try a rear-sight replacement with a windage-adjustable aperture sight. I would rather the aperture be closer to my eye, but others like them. And when moose hunting, do you drive the moose and hunt on foot? Or do you hunt from a stand (tower, box blind, etc.)? Oh, also - you state that you can only have two rounds - do you have to block the magazine so it will not accept more than one round? Just curious. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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