Equinox 0 Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 (edited) Hi, again In light of my heavy work schedule and lack of time I decided to go with US Optics for a custom base and custom mount. I would like any input to what you would think the perfect base would be. My idea so far is for the base to mount to the "gas chamber spring housing, whatever you call it" and extend 3/4 the length of the dust cover. To hug the weapon with an extremely low profile. Be nice and rigid for such an overhang. Called them and told them if it would be cool for me to send the material. He asked "what material". I told him "Titanium grade 28 Beta". He took the info down and headed into the shop. 3 or 4 minutes later he comes back pretty damn dicouraged. He said "Sir, we just cant do that material. Our machinist said we dont have the tools". How funny is that. I guess you would have to be a machinist to laugh at that one. Damn guy doesnt even know his SFM. Anyways, I feel the base will be top of the line and if your familiar with US Optics products, you know they do quality work. Even if there just button pushers:). I am also posting this info to know if there is any interest in such a base. I could inform them of such interest and hope they would put it as a stock item instead of paying $200 for the custom base. Once you build the program for the base you can run hundreds a day. Just need to let them know and pay the little extra to keep it in the CNC instead of manual. the bases: http://www.usoptics.com/sub_pages/bases.php Sincerely Equinox Edited March 24, 2006 by Makc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pedal2alloy 206 Posted March 22, 2006 Report Share Posted March 22, 2006 Why reinvent the wheel? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Equinox 0 Posted March 23, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 because that looks like crap and prolly moves from recoil. I like good rims for my wheels. Question I have is why follow everyone else? Not to be a jerk or nothing, just different taste I persume. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rocketman320 0 Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 Hmmmmmm ............gotta agree with pedal2alloy. The AK scope mounts are rock solid and can be removed in seconds. It is what the gun is made for. I admire your efforts, but I prefer the AK style over the US optics - just my opinion which you asked for. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pedal2alloy 206 Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 Also, I don't know if you want to attach a rail to the dust cover but that is pretty unstable. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 Screw the "Made in Belarus" mount shown in the pic... you want to buy an EASTWAVE mount... check the tech section for the link... too much Absinthe tonight, makes for me being too fucking lazy to post the link for you... You rookies can do some searching on your own... cant hand you EVERYTHING, now, can we? Regardless... EASTWAVE mounts are THE BEST... ROCK SOLID... HOLD ZERO WHEN REMOVED.... I have purchased 4 of them... I recommend them to EVERYONE... and those that buy them AGREE and recommend them to others as well... worth the $44.00 shipped from russia you will pay for them! they are THE BEST! Screw USA made in this case, I hate to say it, but for an AK platform... the EASTWAVE mount is the way to go! and you *NEVER* want to go dustcover mount for a scope rail platform unless you are a fucking RETARD! that said... have at it, do what you want... its your money to WASTE... and you will wind up with an eastwave mount after you spend a fortune for your "dream mount" and realize it doesnt work. Listen to the Indy... TRUST the Indy... I will tell you straight, like I tell my rookies at work... "I dont want to see you fuck up... I want you to do the best you can, the easiest way you can, the fastest way you can... " I wont lie to you, I will not bullshit you... buy an Eastwave and spare yourself the aggravation. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hoop762 0 Posted March 23, 2006 Report Share Posted March 23, 2006 +1 Indy! that pretty much sums it up i have a couple eastwave mounts also. They are the best hands down. forget about anything else Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Equinox 0 Posted March 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 Yeah, the eastwave looks very nice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cscharlie 107 Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 Are you taking about mounting it to the dust cover?, or further forward. like where the rear leaf site is mounted? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 Why reinvent the wheel? I have a Kobra, it does NOT move in recoil. It is repeats zero as best I can tell (hey, it's a shotgun). Reason NOT to use side mounted rail ... Too far back, I want my optic foward as I retract the bolt during reloads with my off hand. Over the dust port gets in the way. (mine is competition shooting and this ends up costing time). Too High. I like the lower profile of a rail attached to gun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Equinox 0 Posted March 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 (edited) Are you taking about mounting it to the dust cover?, or further forward. like where the rear leaf site is mounted? Im speaking of mounting to the gas chamber. in 2 places on the minor OD as close to the box thread relief as I can extend too without breaking into the rad. I plan to cut the factory sight rail off. I dont know what internal parts could be damaged by drilling and tapping but there is always an option for an OD pipe bracket. I was going to send it to us optics but with the responses in this forum it has givin me a littl more insentive. Think Ill just make the base myself with my own materials. That way, you can bet your life that the base will be the strongest god damn thing on the weapon. I could have just left it as "The Eastwave is very nice", but since you asked. Theres a gunsmith in Conroe, Tx. Thats where im gonna have to go, I guess for all the info on dimensions and what ever he tells me i need. However I planned other things for that bracket and the eastwave looks very applicable after I cut off everything above the mount bracket area. Im sure it's some soft stuff like 4340 and would be suprised if it even reached 35 Rc or was over 5% alloy. Im sure it will cut like butter;) Saves me alot of time so i am thankful and already found the link and after i type this ill order one. Sincerely Equinox Here I am next to my machine http://www.knightsguildbattalion.com/kgb/d...32-p1010187.jpg Edited March 24, 2006 by Equinox Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike1972 1 Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 (edited) So what you are saying is that it would be similar to the HALO quad rail as far as the rail extending back, covering the dust cover right? But minus the lower & side rails due to the fact that it is just a top mounted rail, and not the handgaurd portion..... I'd be willing to give that a further look. I would like to see what Tony has to say about it.... I know that Krebs was using dust covers with rails on them... It seems like it would be better than the Krebs if it was actually a seperate rail that just extended over the dust cover, as opposed to being attached to the actual dust cover... Got any pics of one on the gun yet? Edited March 24, 2006 by mikw1972 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Equinox 0 Posted March 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 (edited) So what you are saying is that it would be similar to the HALO quad rail as far as the rail extending back, covering the dust cover right? But minus the lower & side rails due to the fact that it is just a top mounted rail, and not the handgaurd portion..... I'd be willing to give that a further look. I would like to see what Tony has to say about it.... I know that Krebs was using dust covers with rails on them... It seems like it would be better than the Krebs if it was actually a seperate rail that just extended over the dust cover, as opposed to being attached to the actual dust cover... Got any pics of one on the gun yet? Im not familiar with HALO quad rail but do know about quad rails. I cant fully cover the dust cover. Prolly more like 2/3 or 3/5. Structural integrity would be rather weak to extend that far away from a mounting point. Im not such the gun enthusiest as there are on these forums but your discription is very accurate. Maybe if I would have spent more time describing it like you did I wouldnt have "RETARD" remarks in caps. I was sending the weapon off to US optics this comming monday but looks to be Ill be ordering the material monday. Should take 3 to 4 weeks for the material "out of NJ" and a good solid 5+ hours or so for the manufacturing when I actually have time. While the material is shipping ill get the info I need. will post pics of base only asap, K. Material will be Grade 25 or 28 Titanium Beta. Only one place in the US to get it thats why shipping is so long. I wouldnt do the project except the simpicity of the dimensions. The info I need is a print or standard of the picatinny rail dimensions. Edited March 24, 2006 by Equinox Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike1972 1 Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 http://www.halomfg.com/saigasmall.jpg Here is a link for the HALO... I like the idea... It sounds like you are planning something similar to this, but just the top portion only. Am I correct? If it is stable, and doesnt shift, I see no reason why it wouldnt be a good thing... Personally, I do not like side mount rail systems... Yeah, I know thye work & work good... But I'd be game for trying something different as long as it waas reliable, functional, and retained it's zero. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ronswin 26 Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 Kinda sounds like a version of the the Ultimak: http://www.ultimak.com/pic1.htm RonSwin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stokstad 4 Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 You looking to do something like this? http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=7292&hl= Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PogueMahone 0 Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 (edited) doesn't the side mount also interfere with left-side folding stocks as well? i wouldn't mind a rail on the cover. if i'm gonna do sniper work i figger i'll use a rifle anyway... Edited March 24, 2006 by PogueMahone Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 That's what I like about this forum, lots of DIFFERENT opinions and styles. To try something different and break new ground is admirable. I personally don't like forward mounted optics. Some people do and that's cool too. As far as reinventing wheels goes, pssshhhh! WTF Some people dig inventing! Centerline re invented the wheel and sold millions of them to hardcore dragsters who wanted something better than Cragars. Can't wait to see what you come up with Equinox. Forge ahead like stokstad did. You have to really want something a certain way to make it yourself. Indy please let me know what it is about the Eastwave that makes it any better than the Belerus mount. They both look the same to me. I have a Belerus that I don't use anymore since I bought my Kobras but I can't see anything wrong with it for a 35 dollar mount. If you want a good strong mount that has been thoroughly tested and proven in the worst conditions, and you plan on mounting a red dot on it, kill two birds with one slug and get one of the best there is...KOBRA! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 That gas tube mounted rail looks awesome, and surely would work no prob! thats a great idea! and in regards to this... Indy please let me know what it is about the Eastwave that makes it any better than the Belerus mount. They both look the same to me. I have a Belerus that I don't use anymore since I bought my Kobras but I can't see anything wrong with it for a 35 dollar mount. Honestly, Cobra... I have heard MANY reviews of the belarus mounts, and everyone complained they wouldnt hold zero on removal, they wouldnt lock tight to the gun... and would slip and move while mounted... I have never PERSONALLY had one... I am just going with the many comments I have heard about belarus sucking... and I have had many eastwave, and they all work great... for the same price... I just recommend the Eastwave... thats it, really... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
oak 3 Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 Off topic. Indy, where did you get your Absinthe? I have a bottle i am about to crack open. But nowhere to find anymore. Sure wish it was sold in stores. Oak Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike1972 1 Posted March 24, 2006 Report Share Posted March 24, 2006 (edited) Seems to be some interest afterall... I never have liked side mount set ups... I know the are rock solid, but the are ugly as F&^K & I prefer to not have a big piece of metal hanging off the side of my gun if there is a better alternative. I like things on my guns to be linear. I dont like all the uber tacticool stuff hanging from all over the place. Gimme a light, fore grip & an optic & leave it at that.... ANd preferably, keep it all as in line as possible. But thats just me. The idea of something just like the ultimak that extends over some of the dust cover sounds like a good idea to me (that & the fact that Cobra seems to think it might be a good idea makes me think that it IS a good idea) edit to add: I think something just like the ultimak that has an extention that covers part of the dust cover is something that would sell very well.... Make it just like the ultimak but with the dust cover extention & I know that I would buy one for my AK & I would get one for the Saiga (as soon as I can get one) too... Nice low profile & sleek looking.... I dont like forward mount optics much either, but think that the ultimak gas tube rail idea is a damn good one.... I just think it needs to come back over the dust cover further, that way you can have a huge amount of mounting options for your optics. yeah, thats the ticket. Edited March 24, 2006 by mikw1972 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ForGreatJustice 1 Posted March 25, 2006 Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 Basically, an ARMS SIR for the AK. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Equinox 0 Posted March 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 (edited) You looking to do something like this? http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=7292&hl= Yes, that is the closest thing Ive seen. Will extend further and be a lower profile. Not so bulky. The material im using doesnt require such a large bracket as aluminum does. If US optics would do it the material would be 7075 AlTi Alloy. The ultimak is more of a target in the idea of size. http://www.halomfg.com/saigasmall.jpg Here is a link for the HALO... I like the idea... It sounds like you are planning something similar to this, but just the top portion only. Am I correct? If it is stable, and doesnt shift, I see no reason why it wouldnt be a good thing... Personally, I do not like side mount rail systems... Yeah, I know thye work & work good... But I'd be game for trying something different as long as it waas reliable, functional, and retained it's zero. Yep, your correct. Thats sweet. As a note. The only way it could be offered to peeps in this forum is if i do it thru US Optics. I worked 3902 hours last year. I would only be able to make at the max two of them "one for AlG, he sold me my saiga" and nobody would want to buy the material anyway. Just give me an excuse to be lazy;). Off topic Edit: Looking for cobras thread about the forearms with rail just to keep up with progress and couldnt find it:( Just so you know im interested and excited about getting the vented forearm!!! Im getting a surefire M910A vertical foregrip just waiting for the rail;) PS: if you need some badass endmills for venting I can turn you on to a few. Maybe even send you one "you would be doing the venting for free though:(". endmill is prolly 150+ but would be very free cutting. Do you know about mill drills. You wouldnt have to pilot drill for the endmill with those. Would cut your time down. endmills http://www.hanita.com/us/hanprod4.htm drill mills http://www.wttool.com/p/7503-0015?utm_id=44 Edited March 25, 2006 by Equinox Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike1972 1 Posted March 25, 2006 Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 Basically, an ARMS SIR for the AK. Exactly. anything like that for the Saiga12 that anyone knows about? I have surfed the net for them & never seen any. Sounds like this would be the first attempt of such a thing (that I know of anyway) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted March 25, 2006 Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 Equinox, PM sent. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Equinox 0 Posted March 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 (edited) Equinox, PM sent. Do other people know that you give sexual propositons in your PM's? the answer is YES! edit: O, and is my forearm ready yet? Edited March 25, 2006 by Equinox Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bravo 26 2 Posted March 25, 2006 Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 yeah...to hell w/ the mounts...I'm w/Oak here in wondering where the heck you got Absinthe Indy!!! spill the beans man!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
stokstad 4 Posted March 25, 2006 Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 (edited) http://www.absinth.com/ Edited March 25, 2006 by stokstad Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted March 25, 2006 Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ForGreatJustice 1 Posted March 25, 2006 Report Share Posted March 25, 2006 Basically, an ARMS SIR for the AK. Exactly. anything like that for the Saiga12 that anyone knows about? I have surfed the net for them & never seen any. Sounds like this would be the first attempt of such a thing (that I know of anyway) I'm afraid I don't think so. There's no real tactical advantage to it on the AK platform, certainly not on a shotgun, and "cool factor" can only drive manufacturing so far. The stabilize the back end of the rail you'd either have to stick it to the dust cover, or side mount...or SOMETHING. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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