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flash hiders?


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I have a couple of questions about the saiga 12:

 

1) do flash hiders really work on saiga 12's? I have seen some for sale on rusmilitary, and i know tromix makes them, but do any of them work?

does someone have a good picture of the tromix flash hider?

 

2) do muzzle brakes work? the only one i have seen was on this board, made by tromix, but does it work? are they available?

 

3) how exactly does the bolt hold open work? as far as i can gather it is inside the receiver, and you reach inside the ejection port, pull up on the lever and it wedges the bolt open, right?

 

4) after conversion what parts are exchangable on the ak-47 and the s-12? obviously the buttstock, but what about the pistol grip?

the safety selector?

the receiver cover?

what about the trigger group?

 

thanks in advance for the info.

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1) do flash hiders really work on saiga 12's? I have seen some for sale on rusmilitary, and i know tromix makes them, but do any of them work?

does someone have a good picture of the tromix flash hider?

What's your definition of "work"? Anything that distributes the exhaust gases away from directly forward is a functioning flash hider. It will reduce the "flash print" (also dust print) as seen from in front of the muzzle. However, a flash hider vents the flash into the shooter's view, so it's not like the flash is hidden: it's dispersed. Watch a movie like Underworld or Blade and you'll see flash-hiders in action. They create a smaller star-shaped blast instead of spewing flames forward.

 

2) do muzzle brakes work? the only one i have seen was on this board, made by tromix, but does it work? are they available?

 

Again, what's your definition of work? As with the flash hider, any time the gases are vented away from strait forward, you'll lose a little recoil. However, a true muzzle brake will redirect the energy of the gas to actively counteract recoil. Some of those available will work decently (tromix makes one that may do a little more than a flash-hider), but only two I've seen will work well. Those are the ones on the Finn's gun with the tank brake and the Mandula brake. You'll have to do searches for them though and neither is commercially available. A few of the forum members are working on designing brakes (including me), but I'm not so sure they'll be commercially available. The quote on my latest design was $225, which people won't be willing to pay.

 

3) how exactly does the bolt hold open work? as far as i can gather it is inside the receiver, and you reach inside the ejection port, pull up on the lever and it wedges the bolt open, right?
A bolt hold open is a selector lever (safety selector) that is notched so that it can hold the bolt back. Go to blackjackbuffers.com and do a search for a Swift Selector Lever and you'll see the notch. You can also easily make them with a stock selector lever. It is manually operated so you just pull the bolt back, push up on the lever, and the charging handle slides into the notch and is locked back. A last round bolt hold open is entirely diffent. It will lock the bolt back when the magazine is empty. This would be an internal modification that would be activated by a modified follower set to trip a lever that would lock the bolt back.

 

4) after conversion what parts are exchangable on the ak-47 and the s-12? obviously the buttstock, but what about the pistol grip?

the safety selector?

the receiver cover?

what about the trigger group?

 

The FCG (trigger group) is interchangeable, though it will need a bit of reshaping. The Tapco G2 single-hook trigger is the most used and suggested for cost and function, though some say the double-hook is smoother but it takes a tiny bit more work to get into the gun. The safety selector and PG are interchangeable too. Not sure about the dust cover (receiver cover), but I would imagine that it would be. However, I don't see why you'd replace it. There's some with rails mounted to the cover, but the recoil of a 12ga round would make any optic mounted to it shaky and inconsistant. Stick with the factory receiver cover and you're set.

 

Thumb through the old posts (i know there's a lot), but you'll find more detailed information to all of your questions there.

Edited by AegisDei
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What's your definition of "work"? Anything that distributes the exhaust gases away from directly forward is a functioning flash hider. It will reduce the "flash print" (also dust print) as seen from in front of the muzzle. However, a flash hider vents the flash into the shooter's view, so it's not like the flash is hidden: it's dispersed. Watch a movie like Underworld or Blade and you'll see flash-hiders in action. They create a smaller star-shaped blast instead of spewing flames forward.

 

 

 

I must respectfully disagree with this information. A flash-hider's primary function is hiding the flash from the shooter, not the shootee. While flash IS significantly reduced, its almost impossible to hide the flash at night from anyone who's looking at your position. Watching muzzle flashes at night, you can't really conceive of how someone could hide that from a non-blind person.

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I must respectfully disagree with this information. A flash-hider's primary function is hiding the flash from the shooter, not the shootee. While flash IS significantly reduced, its almost impossible to hide the flash at night from anyone who's looking at your position. Watching muzzle flashes at night, you can't really conceive of how someone could hide that from a non-blind person.

 

I stand corrected. Thank you! My interpretation was that it was mainly to reduce signature so it'd be tougher to find the shooter (either audible or visible). However, after looking into it some I found a good summary as follows:

 

"Flash suppressors reduce, or in some cases eliminate, the flash by rapidly expanding and cooling the gasses as they leave the end of the barrel. Although the overall amount of burning gunpowder is unchanged, the density and temperature are greatly reduced, as is the brightness of the flash."

 

Apparently, the flash of a gun without a flash hider generally is up/foward-up, and bright. A flash-hider can reduce the overall brightness by as much as 99%. I'm not sure if you'd get that (99%) significant a flash reduction from a birdcage FH on a shotgun, but after doing more research I would be apt to believe you'd get a SIGNIFICANT reduction in overall brightness which would be a good thing to have at night. Even if the flash is "vented into the shooter's view" (as I previously stated) it's the difference of suddenly having a candle lit at the front of the barrel (FH) or suddenly having a flare ignite in front of you (no FH). Additional benefits are that it makes audibly locating a shot much more difficult by dispersing the sound cone, and it should reduce the dust signature.

 

One final thing to say...I have shot ported pistols at night, and the flash that they produce is MUCH worse than a non-ported pistol. However, these are not designed to be flash hiders, they are designed to reduce muzzle rise, so the comparison isn't a good one to make to a shotgun+FH.

 

I now have to believe that a FH is an excellent idea on a home defense shotgun, or any gun that may be discharged in the dark.

 

Thanks again y'all for correcting me.

Edited by AegisDei
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