depot1 0 Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 FOUND THIS WHILE I WAS LOOKING FOR SAIGAS with 10 round mags http://img276.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn43512sg.jpg http://img276.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn43634mw.jpg http://img276.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn43658ix.jpg It originated from here http://fivesevenforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2779 Says that it would be a pump based model. Ill definately keep my eyes on this one as i dont believe any of the hype surrounding the 10 rounders. I just don't see how it would take 6+months to produce a batch of say 2500 mags Quote Link to post Share on other sites
glock_forty5 0 Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 FOUND THIS WHILE I WAS LOOKING FOR SAIGAS with 10 round mags Says that it would be a pump based model. Ill definately keep my eyes on this one as i dont believe any of the hype surrounding the 10 rounders. I just don't see how it would take 6+months to produce a batch of say 2500 mags Hmmmmm. This sounds too cool, I will believe it when I see it. However, it reminds me of an Ares Defense production. [cough] vaporware [/cough] Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ronswin 26 Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 FOUND THIS WHILE I WAS LOOKING FOR SAIGAS with 10 round mags Says that it would be a pump based model. Ill definately keep my eyes on this one as i dont believe any of the hype surrounding the 10 rounders. I just don't see how it would take 6+months to produce a batch of say 2500 mags Hmmmmm. This sounds too cool, I will believe it when I see it. However, it reminds me of an Ares Defense production. [cough] vaporware [/cough] [/quote Or, the much awaited SHRIKE which has made all other belt-fed AR-15/M-16 systems obsolete! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gazpacho 5 Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 Notice how they expect the 12 guage RIMMED cartridges to stack straight? And what's the point of making a pump action bullpup shotgun? I think someone is bored and yankin' on chains. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uzitiger 193 Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 Notice how they expect the 12 guage RIMMED cartridges to stack straight? And what's the point of making a pump action bullpup shotgun? I think someone is bored and yankin' on chains. I think it's more like someone not thinking about the rimmed shotshells. Trouble with bullpups is that left handers like me can not use them. I don't like the idea of shells ejecting in front of my face. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Big Daddy 0 Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 I really don't like the look of it myself. It reminds me of the F-90 from the Socom video game. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
osprey21 5 Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 Can you say 'Wet Dream'. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 Oh, did they forget to mention that you need to shave the rims off of 2 sides of teh shells for this to work? lolol I'll have 3 shrikes in hand before this is sold. But what the hey ... Oh, put me on the mailing list. Is there a waiting list, can I get on it? I'm available for testing. yada yada yada. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
depot1 0 Posted April 27, 2006 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 Im keeping my eyes on it as a backup plan for a high cap shotgun. I got lucky and bought a few 8 rounders for $70 each back in 2005. The S12 is a great shotty but without 10 round mags it will fail to live to its potential and expectations Quote Link to post Share on other sites
beerslurpy 1 Posted April 27, 2006 Report Share Posted April 27, 2006 Wow that is even more vaporous than the mags for the saiga-12, a gun that has been in commercial production for several years already. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
glock_forty5 0 Posted April 28, 2006 Report Share Posted April 28, 2006 Wow that is even more vaporous than the mags for the saiga-12, a gun that has been in commercial production for several years already. It is so vaporous that even the pictures are translucent. Why would you build a super high tech magazine that by some miracle keeps shot shells stacked straight and make it a pump? That is like making a bolt action belt-fed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NoAim 0 Posted April 28, 2006 Report Share Posted April 28, 2006 I think it's more like someone not thinking about the rimmed shotshells. Trouble with bullpups is that left handers like me can not use them. I don't like the idea of shells ejecting in front of my face. Steyr Aug you can swap the bolt and charging handle to make it lefty friendly. P90 ejects out through the bottom. F2000 ejects out front (dribbles out by the barrel). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
beerslurpy 1 Posted April 28, 2006 Report Share Posted April 28, 2006 That gun is so obviously physically impossible it boggles the mind. You probably could get rimless 12 gauge sized shells to feed around a corner like that, but it would require a much larger magazine than on a P90. More realistically, I have always wondered why no one ever made a helical magazine shotgun kind of like a calico machine gun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NoAim 0 Posted April 28, 2006 Report Share Posted April 28, 2006 That gun is so obviously physically impossible it boggles the mind. You probably could get rimless 12 gauge sized shells to feed around a corner like that, but it would require a much larger magazine than on a P90. More realistically, I have always wondered why no one ever made a helical magazine shotgun kind of like a calico machine gun. Why would they have to be rimless? Just like the Saiga mag, you can have one side be the "channel" for the rim. The mag body (vertically) would be slightly narrower, allowing the shell body to roll/slide. As shotgun shells are various uncontrolled lengths, you cannot "space" with the body and must rely on the rim. The only downside to this system is that the mag spring is going to need to be beefed up to overcome the extra friction of a rim/plastic case doing the 90 degree turn. This also means the recoils spring needs to be stiffer to feed reliably. But then it'd have to as the 12 gauge is much more powerful than the 5.7. The P90 is a delayed blowback so no gas to worry about. The ejection port (down) would need to be enlarged to accomodate the shells. Honestly, if you could get it to feed reliably, it'd work. I agree though, screw pump action...make it semi. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gazpacho 5 Posted April 29, 2006 Report Share Posted April 29, 2006 S12 mags also have a channel to accomodate the rim. That doesn't chang the fact that rims of adjacent shells still touch each other. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
epsylum 0 Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 S12 mags also have a channel to accomodate the rim. That doesn't chang the fact that rims of adjacent shells still touch each other. +1 look at an 8 round S12 mag, it's curved. That is for a reason. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
topmaul 42 Posted May 1, 2006 Report Share Posted May 1, 2006 Here is my 2 cents worth. I have looked at this with an open mind and at first I thought no freakin way, then I thought well maybe if, I'm now back to no freakin way. The rim channel looks like a jam coming around the corner sorry guys, I can't see rimless shells working. Just too much geometry. The Saiga is the gold standard of mag fed shotguns if it does not better than the Saiga no sense in producing it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1Bigdog 1 Posted May 2, 2006 Report Share Posted May 2, 2006 It looks like the casing on the drawing is made of unobtainium. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
glock_forty5 0 Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 It looks like the casing on the drawing is made of unobtainium. Everything I want is made out of unobtainium.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 The biggest problem with this design is Where would you put the slide for the pump? Other than that you could design a mag that would keep the shells straight despite the rim. It would be more complex than the p90 mag. You would need little gears that would sit between each shell in the mag. The gear would fill the space between the shell equal to the space of the rims. Make them free spin in the direction of loading the mag and make a release for the gears that would be tripped by the bolt coming back so the shells could move back to prepare one for cambering. You follow me? The mag would be much bigger than a scaled up p90 mag. Possible, but not at all feasible. With the p90 frame style it would have to be automatic, unless you wanted to add the pump under the barrel in front of the stock. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tcmoses 0 Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 On P90 style rifles the cases eject out of the bottom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
panaceabeachbum 0 Posted May 9, 2006 Report Share Posted May 9, 2006 I did get to actualy hold a shrike upper about a month ago, $7k, just a little off the $3k mark we all were told Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimmbswu 0 Posted May 9, 2006 Report Share Posted May 9, 2006 All y'all who keep saying a 12-ga mag has to be curved a la Saiga-12, you need to rethink the problem. The Knoxx Sidewinder conversion uses a straight magazine. Yet they still use the rimmed 12-ga shells. Mmmm... Maybe it IS possible to build a straight mag that feeds 12-ga rimmed shells reliably! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Prophet 1 Posted May 10, 2006 Report Share Posted May 10, 2006 Can you say: "muzzle blast facial?" -P. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JumiKuula 1 Posted May 10, 2006 Report Share Posted May 10, 2006 All y'all who keep saying a 12-ga mag has to be curved a la Saiga-12, you need to rethink the problem. The Knoxx Sidewinder conversion uses a straight magazine. Yet they still use the rimmed 12-ga shells. Mmmm... Maybe it IS possible to build a straight mag that feeds 12-ga rimmed shells reliably! Ever noticed that it uses only 6 rounds and it feeds backwards? It really doesn't matter that much if cartridge nose dives when it is pushed to "wrong" direction. After all rim is definitely pushed up first. ...And Knoxx doesn't have to keep up Saiga's loading cycle... Just to remind: Saiga Quote Link to post Share on other sites
glock_forty5 0 Posted May 11, 2006 Report Share Posted May 11, 2006 I did get to actualy hold a shrike upper about a month ago, $7k, just a little off the $3k mark we all were told What do you think about the overall fit and finish of the Shrike? Was the owner happy with its reliability? G45 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Halo Mfg 0 Posted May 11, 2006 Report Share Posted May 11, 2006 Mmmm... Maybe it IS possible to build a straight mag that feeds 12-ga rimmed shells reliably! Thank you jimmbswu. All the posts (except the one above) are the main reason we wont release info on this project! If your going to bash the crap out it, you can at least bash it by name the "P12". There now you have somewhere to direct your bashing. If you think the magazine is "unusaual" wait till you see the gun! I understand some of the feelings expressed. Thats why you wont hear S**T about it untill we release the footage of it firing. It is going to happen. We already have a functional magazine. It holds 20 rounds by the way. If you really want someting to something to wrap your brain around. One of the mag designs doesnt contain a Magazine spring inside the magazine to function. Even the machinests at our company had a problem with that one, untill they saw the design. The drawings that were found were only 6hrs old. This project will continue to be devoloped in to a working prototype in the next several months. You wont hear S**T about it untill then, untill people see the whole system work, there will be constant nay-sayers. So dont worry, Im not posting any photos of the rest of the gun, its revolutionary pump system, internals, or anything else. If you saw the rest of it, it may cause someone a heart attack. The design is based on several of our favorite gun platforms. We chose go completely backwards from anything ever built thus far. Here, let me help throw some gas of the fire for you. Its a bull pup design, the pump isnt horizonal, its 80% plastic, 20 round mag, rotating locking bolt system, silicone parts used, and more. There you go... BURN IT DOWN, BURN IT ALL DOWN! Dont take this rant as me being pissed off, im not. I dont care. I know it works, I get to play with it. I know with the people involved with this project are putting everything into it. I also know there is nothing like it on the planet, and when its done. Well sell the s--t out of them. There are already calls comming in from every direction. So feel free to bash on, Its COOL with us. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted May 11, 2006 Report Share Posted May 11, 2006 I think I want to work for you Halo .... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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