O.S.O.K. 0 Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 (edited) I am still waiting for my rifle to arrive, but that doesn't keep me from planning! One thing I am contemplating is shortening the barrel to 16.5" and maybe threading the barrel for standard AK flash hiders and such. The total mods planned are conversion to pg config with K-Var buttstock and pg, install an RSA fcg, leave the issue handguard as is and as indicated maybe shorten the barrel. Anybody do the barrel thing? If so, please describe the process - any problems with the chrome lining? Pics? I was thinking I could mark the barrel with a pipe cutter, then just use a hack saw to cut the barrel. Then, use a milling file and angle to square it off and finish with a 45 degree chamfering tool. I have all of this equipment right now. I'm wondering if the diameter of the barrel would have to be reduced to allow the fsb to be re-installed? I am sure this would be required if I decide to thread 14x1LH... TIA Edit: didn't these rifles come in a carbine length at one time? I mean the .308's specifically - I think I shot one last year at a gunsnet shoot(?) - it was unmodified sporter but I am pretty sure the barrel was shorter than 22". Edited May 4, 2006 by O.S.O.K. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HaxorMachine 0 Posted May 4, 2006 Report Share Posted May 4, 2006 I am still waiting for my rifle to arrive, but that doesn't keep me from planning! One thing I am contemplating is shortening the barrel to 16.5" and maybe threading the barrel for standard AK flash hiders and such. The total mods planned are conversion to pg config with K-Var buttstock and pg, install an RSA fcg, leave the issue handguard as is and as indicated maybe shorten the barrel. Anybody do the barrel thing? If so, please describe the process - any problems with the chrome lining? Pics? I was thinking I could mark the barrel with a pipe cutter, then just use a hack saw to cut the barrel. Then, use a milling file and angle to square it off and finish with a 45 degree chamfering tool. I have all of this equipment right now. I'm wondering if the diameter of the barrel would have to be reduced to allow the fsb to be re-installed? I am sure this would be required if I decide to thread 14x1LH... TIA Edit: didn't these rifles come in a carbine length at one time? I mean the .308's specifically - I think I shot one last year at a gunsnet shoot(?) - it was unmodified sporter but I am pretty sure the barrel was shorter than 22". I've seen them recently with the 16.3" barrels in 308/synthetic. They are currently avail and it's prob a better idea to not pipecut/hacksaw your barrel down....Find a gunsmith or purchase the carbine model. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
44rdv4rk 0 Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 good lord! dont cut a 22" or god will kill a kitten. 22" .308 is the tits! buy a carbine.. they're like $20 cheaper anyway. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
O.S.O.K. 0 Posted May 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 good lord! dont cut a 22" or god will kill a kitten. 22" .308 is the tits! buy a carbine.. they're like $20 cheaper anyway. Well, I am going to see how it looks and handles first. Perhaps though, trading for a carbine length one would be smarter - no chrome lining issue. BTW, the chamfering tool is from Brownell's and utilizes a brass .311" pilot. I use it to clean-up the muzzles of SMLE's and Mosin Nagants if they need it and it usually improves accuracy noticebly. Thanks for your comments. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 22" is a good length for .308. Less muzleflash, negligably better velocity. G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TEXASAK73 13 Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 My god man don't do it.I had a 16" carbine I went from 2-3" groups to 1-2 when I got my 22" version.No reason to cut one down when you can buy one already shortened.The Powderhorn in San Antonio has the 16" for $329.00 and the 22" cost $349.00.If want a carbine buy it that way. Someone had a 16" with a H&K style front and rear sight and a 16" barrel with a 74 style brake.It looked real nice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
O.S.O.K. 0 Posted May 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 You guys are pretty pasionate about this - I am not going to cut the barrel now. Thanks! Does make sense - accuracy, muzzle blast... Just so you know, I have a FAL with 20" barrel already - was just thinking about this being a handy .308 carbine. If I don't like the longer barrel, I will take it to SA and offer a trade - straight up. Thanks again for the info. You guys are all right Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Unknown Poster 5 Posted May 5, 2006 Report Share Posted May 5, 2006 (edited) Fact you don't cut/shorten chrome lined barrels if the chrome lining chips its all kaput and it can when the recrowning takes place very easily. If you want a 16" barreled 308 buy it too. I purchased both saiga's the 16" first then the 22" too. Then i found a used 308/16" too. My 16" barreled 308 saiga is shooting 1 1/2" groups @ 100yds and i never shot my 22" barreled 308 saiga yet. Edited May 5, 2006 by Unknown Poster Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cscharlie 107 Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 (edited) There has been barrel length vs velocity loss testing done for gas operated 308 win. rifle. I don't recall what rifle was used,( maybe SR25), but the results were interesting. It was started with the barrel at 24" and was reduced in one 1" increments. 18" is were it started to become flashy, and shorter than 18" is were it began to experience significant velocity loss. So 18" is what was used. I believe this was for the urban sniper program. As far as the hard chrome lining being messed up when it's cut/recrowned, I've never seen that happen when done correctly. It's different than the chrome on a car bumper. I would talk to somebody like Tony Rumore about it. I think that my biggest concern would be having burrs on the inside of the barrel after enlarging the gas port. After I get a nother long barrel .308, my 22" Saiga will be shortened down to 18"-19" and will have a Vortex flash hider installed. The 16" barrel is handy, but it has a lot of flash. Edited May 6, 2006 by cscharlie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sunset_Va 2 Posted May 6, 2006 Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 This has been discussed tons of times, but I shortened my 22"bbl 308 Saiga down to 18"bbl instead of 16"bbl, I am refinishing it presently, hope to have the conversion pictures on saiga 12 forums soon. When doing the conversion on it, I had to remove the front sight anyways , along with the gas block to install the handguard retainer. I will also give a report as to the accuracy of it. The 18"bbl length to me is great, with my Vortex flash hider installed, it is probably 19"bbl length total now. I am not worried about the chrome flaking or chipping. < 18" is were it started to become flashy, and shorter than 18" is were it began to experience significant velocity loss. So 18" is what was used. I believe this was for the urban sniper program.> <As far as the hard chrome lining being messed up when it's cut/recrowned, I've never seen that happen when done correctly. > Quote Link to post Share on other sites
O.S.O.K. 0 Posted May 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted May 6, 2006 (edited) Sounds like a good way to proceed would be to get a 16" carbine and install a flash hider. Looks like the fsb is right out to the end though - and would need to be moved back on the barrel a tad? How does the outside diameter of the .308 barrel compare to a standard 7.62x39 AK barrel? The 7.62x39 barrels that I have are .572"-.575" in diameter (measured just behind the fsb where the barrel diam. is reduced). If the .308 is same or just a little larger, then a standard 1x14LH thread pitch could easily be used to allow for standard AK muzzle devices. Or maybe install a standard AK fsb with lug to go with a proper length 74 brake for bayo hanging. Although, I'm not really that worried about the bayo - I already have many rifles that can take stickers now. Edited May 6, 2006 by O.S.O.K. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rangerruck 0 Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 typically, with a high power centerfire, depending on this , that , the other, you could say on avg you will loose 75 to 100 fps per inch and also the same in lbs of E. when shortening a bbl. A 16 in bbl will get you about 2600 fps vels, while a 22 to 24 in bbl., will get you close to the 3000 mark depending on bbl, bullet weight , etc. In other words , don't do it! though I must say, I really like my 'lil stubby. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cpileri 0 Posted June 8, 2006 Report Share Posted June 8, 2006 Just to share. here's some velocity info on ~16-in barrels and 308 loads: http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bin/tact...0956;p=1#000002 By projectile weight: Hornady TAP 110gr 2894fps Santa barbara surplus 146gr 2611 Horn. Spire point 150gr 2635 Black Hills Boattail 150gr 2643 Horn. TAP 155gr 2567 Rem. Nosler Ballistic tip 165gr 2573 Sellier&Bellot Match 168gr 2419 Black Hills Match 175gr 2378 I know bullet manufacturers design bullets to perform well over a range of velocities, so perhaps this question is moot (or already covered) but: will the on-site recommended 155gr TAP ammo still have its excellent terminal performance at ~2567fps? (as opposed to the 2849fps shown for the super gelatin pics seen here:http://www.tacticalforums.com/cgi-bin/tacticalubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=78;t=000433#000014) Hope this helps, C- Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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