vairous dumb magazine questions

[meagain 0]

hi,

i'm new to your forum.

 

i've read through the posts and cannot seem to find answers.

 

my questions are

 

how many parts would i have to change to be legal and use a hi cap magazine on a stock rifle? i like the rifle just fine the way it is except i'd like a little more in the ammo dept.

 

i would like to do this with out using a bullet guide if at all possable,but would go that route if need be.

 

any comments on sksmans "remanufatured" .223 mags compaired with buying bulgarian mags? ( besides the bullet guide).

 

thank you all for your help.

parden my spelling/grammer.

[TEXASAK73 13]

hi,

i'm new to your forum.

 

i've read through the posts and cannot seem to find answers.

 

my questions are

 

how many parts would i have to change to be legal and use a hi cap magazine on a stock rifle? i like the rifle just fine the way it is except i'd like a little more in the ammo dept.

 

i would like to do this with out using a bullet guide if at all possable,but would go that route if need be.

 

any comments on sksmans "remanufatured" .223 mags compaired with buying bulgarian mags? ( besides the bullet guide).

 

thank you all for your help.

parden my spelling/grammer.

 

I have been under the impression that a semi auto imported rifle may have one evil feature.A detachable magazine is the one evil feature.Be it a hi cap or not it still remains the 1 evil feature.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

All that evil feature stuff died with the ban, WELL SORT OF...

The law (922r) says that you cannot have more than ten imported parts from ATF's list on an imported rifle like a Saiga, SKS, or AK, that you decide to "customize" by changing parts and the mag body, follower, and floorplate are all on their list. You put that hi cap mag in there without changing at leasdt 5 of the parts on the list to US made ones and you have just "assembled" an illegal "assault weapon".

[TEXASAK73 13]

All that evil feature stuff died with the ban.

The law (922r) says that you cannot have more than ten imported parts from ATF's list on an imported rifle like a Saiga, SKS, or AK, that you decide to "customize" by changing parts and the mag body, follower, and floorplate are all on their list. You put that hi cap mag in there without changing at leasdt 5 of the parts on the list to US made ones and you have just "assembled" an illegal "assault weapon".

 

 

Well that answers some questions then.But what parts can be changed in a Saiga without changing the factory setup?

 

I can only think of Hammer,Disconnector,Piston,Butt stock and Forearm? I know I can change those in my .308 but my .223 had those rear pivot pins that kept the trigger in place.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

You got it, hammer, disconnector, HG, stock, and piston are the "easy" ones. Tromix makes a replacement piston for the shotguns. It is different than for the rifles. You can get one custom made for the rifles by a guy named hotbarrel on another forum. Or if they are the same length (I'm not sure but they probably are, I'll check mine) you can use one of the ones Tapco sells. If for some reason you want to change the gun without changing the configuration, such as to put one of Jeric's cool custom made stocks on there, see here http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=8517

you can change out the parts mentioned and be legal, (4 for the shotguns with unthreaded bbls and 5 for the rifles).

If you want to thread your barrel like I did and add a cool brake you will be adding another "evil feature" so you can do one more change to stay compliant. The time and effort involved in this and changing out the rest of the FCG is why most people just go ahead with a regular PG conversion. OF COURSE THERE IS ALWAYS ANOTHER OPTION FOR THE 7.62 X 39 IF YOU USE A US MADE HI CAP LIKE PROMAG OR JUST CHANGE OUT YOUR FOLLOWER AND FLOORPLATE WITH US MADE ONES.

You will need to cut the retainer spring (or drill out the front axis pin holding it and the "transfer fork", I'll call it, in place) and take out the whole FCG. Then you will notice the part that holds the hammer back (trigger on most AKs) is just like the standard AK trigger but the actual trigger has been removed form the bottom and ground flat. Actually it's probably machined this way but for the sake of this conversation that is what you will have to do to the Tapco G-2 or whatever other US made trigger you want to replace it with. If you do this and make it look just like the factory part you can reinstall it and put everything back together like the factory setup and you will have replaced all three listed parts of the FCG with US made ones. You will have to put the factory retaining spring back in and put some kind of pin or crossbolt in to hold it and the fork in place. You need the pin for the fork but you could use a shepards crook or e clips to hold your hammer and trigger axis pins.

 

I have not actually done this mod because to me it seems a lot easier to just drill one more pin out, drill out another rivet and a spotweld, and cut the hole for the PG nut while you are already this far in, and do the standard conversion (cutting the end off the TG, after separating it from the bottom cover plate, rebending it, drilling a hole in the other end, and reusing it) that puts the trigger up where it belongs behind the mag.

 

IM PRETTY SURE THE PART THAT THE PART YOU PULL BACK ON TO DISCHARGE THE WEAPON IS NOT WHAT ATF WOULD CONSIDER THE TRIGGER IN AN AK TYPE WEAPON BUT YOU ARE WELCOME TO WRITE AND ASK THEM FOR CLARIFICATON ON THIS.

 

Tony at Tromix has written them for clarification on the gas piston issue with the shotties and soon we should at least have that in writing. The thing with the shotties is they have an additional part in front of the normal AK gas piston that actually serves as the gas piston because it is what transfers the energy and is called the gas piston in the manual.

 

These Saigas are a strange animal in the AK world but I still love em!

 

I guess I should make this a sticky because this is at least the 5th time I have explained all this. Maybe when I get my new stock from Jeric I will try and find a cheap used 410 or something and do this as a tutorial with pics.

[TEXASAK73 13]

Very cool,thanks very much.I was given similar advice on what to do with the FCG.I'm torn right now as to what to do,I might go the whole route and do the full conversion.But with a little patience I could do as described to the G2 FCG easily enough.

 

This would be a good sticky of information for those wishing to do a different type of conversion.The S-308 would be even easier since there are no axis pins.

 

 

You got it, hammer, disconnector, HG, stock, and piston are the "easy" ones. Tromix makes a replacement piston for the shotguns. It is different than for the rifles. You can get one custom made for the rifles by a guy named hotbarrel on another forum. Or if they are the same length (I'm not sure but they probably are, I'll check mine) you can use one of the ones Tapco sells. If for some reason you want to change the gun without changing the configuration, such as to put one of Jeric's cool custom made stocks on there, see here http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=8517

you can change out the parts mentioned and be legal, (4 for the shotguns with unthreaded bbls and 5 for the rifles).

If you want to thread your barrel like I did and add a cool brake you will be adding another "evil feature" so you can do one more change to stay compliant. The time and effort involved in this and changing out the rest of the FCG is why most people just go ahead with a regular PG conversion. OF COURSE THERE IS ALWAYS ANOTHER OPTION FOR THE 7.62 X 39 IF YOU USE A US MADE HI CAP LIKE PROMAG OR JUST CHANGE OUT YOUR FOLLOWER AND FLOORPLATE WITH US MADE ONES.

You will need to cut the retainer spring (or drill out the front axis pin holding it and the "transfer fork", I'll call it, in place) and take out the whole FCG. Then you will notice the part that holds the hammer back (trigger on most AKs) is just like the standard AK trigger but the actual trigger has been removed form the bottom and ground flat. Actually it's probably machined this way but for the sake of this conversation that is what you will have to do to the Tapco G-2 or whatever other US made trigger you want to replace it with. If you do this and make it look just like the factory part you can reinstall it and put everything back together like the factory setup and you will have replaced all three listed parts of the FCG with US made ones. You will have to put the factory retaining spring back in and put some kind of pin or crossbolt in to hold it and the fork in place. You need the pin for the fork but you could use a shepards crook or e clips to hold your hammer and trigger axis pins.

 

I have not actually done this mod because to me it seems a lot easier to just drill one more pin out, drill out another rivet and a spotweld, and cut the hole for the PG nut while you are already this far in, and do the standard conversion (cutting the end off the TG, after separating it from the bottom cover plate, rebending it, drilling a hole in the other end, and reusing it) that puts the trigger up where it belongs behind the mag.

 

IM PRETTY SURE THE PART THAT THE PART YOU PULL BACK ON TO DISCHARGE THE WEAPON IS NOT WHAT ATF WOULD CONSIDER THE TRIGGER IN AN AK TYPE WEAPON BUT YOU ARE WELCOME TO WRITE AND ASK THEM FOR CLARIFICATON ON THIS.

 

Tony at Tromix has written them for clarification on the gas piston issue with the shotties and soon we should at least have that in writing. The thing with the shotties is they have an additional part in front of the normal AK gas piston that actually serves as the gas piston because it is what transfers the energy and is called the gas piston in the manual.

 

These Saigas are a strange animal in the AK world but I still love em!

 

I guess I should make this a sticky because this is at least the 5th time I have explained all this. Maybe when I get my new stock from Jeric I will try and find a cheap used 410 or something and do this as a tutorial with pics.

[meagain 0]

i would like to thank you all for your help in understanding this.