Safety Problem

[greatmoose 4]

I figure there's a simple fix for this, but for the life of me I can't figure it out. Here's the problem I'm seeing:

 

1) Disengage safety

2) Pull back bolt handle/cock the weapon

3) Let fly forward/chamber round)

4) Re-engage safety

5) Disengage safety again and the weapon fires

 

My standard AK does no do this, but my converted 308 does. It appears that when the safety is disengaged the second time, it is letting the disconnector move and releasing the cocked hammer. Any ideas on how to fix this? Thanks!

[O.S.O.K. 0]

What kind of fcg do you have? If it is a Red Star, you just need to adjust the settings to increase the amount of contact between the hammer and the trigger sear to prevent this. If it has a modified G-2 or similar, you may need to slightly shorten the safety lever (inside where it contacts the fcg) to prevent it from hitting the back arm of the hammer when it swings down to clear that back arm.

 

It sounds like it's pushing down on that arm and the sear is only barely caught on the hammer, so it slips off letting the hammer fly forward.

 

Also, do you have the disconnector spring installed? It goes between the disconnector and the trigger.

Edited June 29, 2006 by O.S.O.K.

[greatmoose 4]

It's a G2 FCG, and the spring is installed. Could the spring be too tight maybe? So you're thinking that when the safety is rotated, the little rectangular nub part of the safety is pushing on the back of the trigger, making the hammer slide out from the disconnector hook? I'll look at trimming the safety nub. I also wonder if the hammer might be part of the problem. Maybe it needs more contact area for the hook? This is weird.

[O.S.O.K. 0]

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking- take the dust cover off, charge the action, put the safety on, then slide it down and watch what happens - then you will know!

[kuma 0]

When I installed the Tapco G2 hammer/trigger kit in my 308, I had some problems too. I did some safety checks by pulling the bolt handle back and lettting it go forward. Then I put the safety on. Then I pulled on the trigger and it moved a little. The hammer moved a little too. Then I took the safety off and then pulled on the trigger. It was like a set trigger - VERY light. Okay to get good groups but not if I was to sell the rifle. The problem was that the little nub on the safety was too short. I had my machinist friend weld up a little tab to extend it. Now the safety is positive.

[TonyRumore 1,329]

I have to weld all the safeties up and recut them. I think they are all like that when you put a G2 in a .308.

 

Tony

[44rdv4rk 0]

yup. a 3/32" bump on the right side of the selector did the trick when i did mine.

[texlurch 0]

Once you release the trigger, the disconnector shouldn't be touching the hammer. Only the forward hook(s). So if the safety is moving the disconnector, it shouldn't be an issue.

I would check to see if the forward side of the trigger is rubbing the receiver, and not returning all the way to engage the hammer.

You should also not have any movement on the trigger with the safety engaged.

[AK-308 2]

I figure there's a simple fix for this, but for the life of me I can't figure it out. Here's the problem I'm seeing:

 

1) Disengage safety

2) Pull back bolt handle/cock the weapon

3) Let fly forward/chamber round)

4) Re-engage safety

5) Disengage safety again and the weapon fires

 

My standard AK does no do this, but my converted 308 does. It appears that when the safety is disengaged the second time, it is letting the disconnector move and releasing the cocked hammer. Any ideas on how to fix this? Thanks!

 

Can we move this thread to the "important" section? Pretty significant IMO.

[doug01 3]

Well this real shitty news. I just sent a K-var trigger set back and ordered a G2 for my .308. I put a K-var in my .223. Actually had to take a little off the plate of the safety to install it. We'll see how it goes I guess.

[headshot 52]

Given how serious this issue is, does anyone have a picture of a correctly modified safety that addresses the problem?

 

THANKS!

[greatmoose 4]

A little additional info: When my safety is engaged, my trigger does have a small amount of movement. If i do NOT touch the trigger, then the weapon functions normally. If I do wiggle it, then the problem occurs. It appears as if either the hook is too short or the hammer catch is not quite wide enough.

I think I can fix this by adding just a tiny bit of material to the receiver floor, allowing the trigger to sit ever so slightly forward. I don't mind doing this, but it seems to me that one should not have to do this. Would an RSA trigger group not have this problem? This seems to be a potentially big problem for G2 FCGs.

[O.S.O.K. 0]

I can tell you my experience with my two Saigas' - one a 22" recent model version and the second an older carbine.

 

I used RSA's Veper 308 fcg in them both and have had no problem with the safeties. They are fully (and I mean fully) adjustable and the safeties on both are positive. I do have a little play on the trigger (very little) when the trigger is engaged (on my carbine) but it has no effect on the safety action.

 

RSA has these on sale for $85 right now - I highly recommend them.

 

Besides the safety thing, I was able to adjust the trigger on my carbine to a single stage mode (they give detailed directions on how to acheive this) and it is the best AK trigger that I've ever had. You can also adjust it to normal two-stage (which is comes set for).

 

The only thing about this fcg is that there is extra room - side to side. This doesn't affect function but I would prefer things to be tight - and I can get that if I get some spacers and install on the trigger axis pin. Just FYI.

 

The G-2 fcg is an excellent product and value and I've used it in all nine of my AK builds with excellent results. But I think the RSA fcg is tops for the Saiga .308.

[LESchwartz 9]

The only thing about this fcg is that there is extra room - side to side. This doesn't affect function but I would prefer things to be tight - and I can get that if I get some spacers and install on the trigger axis pin. Just FYI.

On some conversions this side-to-side movement could be downright dangerous . . .

 

I used 5/16" OD x 3/16" L (#10 ID) for the left side and a 5/16" OD x 3/8" L (#10 ID) for the right. A little sanding and they hold the trigger rock solid in the center. I ordered PN's 67713032 & 67713156 from MSCDirect.com. For more information see my thread: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=7937.

 

Larry

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

I probably should add this here...

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=11963

[BlenderWizard 12]

I don't know, but this is not a problem I ran into on my S-.308 with a G2 FCG.

 

I'd check it out, but I've sold it.

[5thShock 0]

"I think I can fix this by adding just a tiny bit of material to the receiver floor..."

 

I have never replaced the trigger on my Saiga 308 but I ran into an issue with the G2 in a Romanian SAR 1 that others had also. It may touch on this problem. The G2 trigger could not move forward enough to fully reset, there was interference at the forward end of the receiver trigger cut-out. I did not want to alter the SAR 1 receiver so I removed some metal from the forward part of the G2 trigger where it was hitting the receiver. It now resets fine with plenty of engagement (creep).

[747mech 1]

I'm doing my 308 right now. Three issues so far. 1st is the saftey. I don't have welding toys, so I ordered a Rom. F/A saftey to see if it will work. (g2 has no F/A tab on disconnector) If not, I'll hit the muffler shop where I used to work.

Second is the disconnector spring. The original is larger O.D. than the g2 hole. I'm ordering a new spring, rather than boring the new part.

Third, the g2 hammer has a knob on it that strikes the crossbar. The original is flat from the radius halfway up the hammer. I filed it down to fit.

I will update with more, but it may take a while.

[Hunter78 1]

A romy selector will fix the problem, but the punched dimple will create a second arc scratch on your reciever. It will also catch more in the safe position and be hard to push down. You could pound down the dimple and put a new one where it is on the stock saiga selector with a center punch. However, if you can weld, it is easy to add a little to the nob that contacts the trigger on the saigas safety. You don't have to add that much. I did it with just an arc welder and then ground it.

 

I have seen clearence issues on the front side of the trigger hole. My 410 had this and it ocasionally caused a jam untill I filed it slightly.

[N4KVE 14]

I've been reading all the safety problems here so I asked my smith who converted my .308 Saiga about this. He used a FSE trigger group, put it in straight up & used the safety lever that came with the gun. No problems at all. Safety works fine, & trigger is real smooth. He said he didn't care for the G2 parts, & had much better luck with FSE. What can I say, except my .308 Saiga works great. Since I started with the FSE group, I never had a problem, but maybe someone who has problems with G2 should try FSE. GARY N4KVE

[CZ52GUY 0]

The only thing about this fcg is that there is extra room - side to side. This doesn't affect function but I would prefer things to be tight - and I can get that if I get some spacers and install on the trigger axis pin. Just FYI.

On some conversions this side-to-side movement could be downright dangerous . . .

 

I used 5/16" OD x 3/16" L (#10 ID) for the left side and a 5/16" OD x 3/8" L (#10 ID) for the right. A little sanding and they hold the trigger rock solid in the center. I ordered PN's 67713032 & 67713156 from MSCDirect.com. For more information see my thread: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=7937.

 

Larry

 

I had similar issues with the G2. Lots of grinding on the Hammer to make it fit, then I used the 3/16" spacer from MSCDirect.com (my G2 came with a "pin sleeve" which allowed me to use spacer on just one side). Right now, it's a Single Stage trigger breaking at about 2.5# , so it was worth the effort.

 

CZ52'

[nutsym16 0]

The only thing about this fcg is that there is extra room - side to side. This doesn't affect function but I would prefer things to be tight - and I can get that if I get some spacers and install on the trigger axis pin. Just FYI.

On some conversions this side-to-side movement could be downright dangerous . . .

 

I used 5/16" OD x 3/16" L (#10 ID) for the left side and a 5/16" OD x 3/8" L (#10 ID) for the right. A little sanding and they hold the trigger rock solid in the center. I ordered PN's 67713032 & 67713156 from MSCDirect.com. For more information see my thread: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=7937.

 

Larry

 

I had similar issues with the G2. Lots of grinding on the Hammer to make it fit, then I used the 3/16" spacer from MSCDirect.com (my G2 came with a "pin sleeve" which allowed me to use spacer on just one side). Right now, it's a Single Stage trigger breaking at about 2.5# , so it was worth the effort.

 

CZ52'

[nutsym16 0]

Thought I was the only one having this problem ! Tapco FCG, safty barley worked, trigger hung up, then didn't work! Way too much clearance. Had friend weld it up, works fine now.

[Eugene Onegin 6]

I would like to get one of these FCGs for my SAIGA too,so where may I buy one?

I've been reading all the safety problems here so I asked my smith who converted my .308 Saiga about this. He used a FSE trigger group, put it in straight up & used the safety lever that came with the gun. No problems at all. Safety works fine, & trigger is real smooth. He said he didn't care for the G2 parts, & had much better luck with FSE. What can I say, except my .308 Saiga works great. Since I started with the FSE group, I never had a problem, but maybe someone who has problems with G2 should try FSE. GARY N4KVE

[E-TAC 47]

Given how serious this issue is, does anyone have a picture of a correctly modified safety that addresses the problem?

 

THANKS!

[Buzter 0]

I'm doing my 308 right now. Three issues so far. 1st is the saftey. I don't have welding toys, so I ordered a Rom. F/A saftey to see if it will work. (g2 has no F/A tab on disconnector) If not, I'll hit the muffler shop where I used to work.

Second is the disconnector spring. The original is larger O.D. than the g2 hole. I'm ordering a new spring, rather than boring the new part.

Third, the g2 hammer has a knob on it that strikes the crossbar. The original is flat from the radius halfway up the hammer. I filed it down to fit.

I will update with more, but it may take a while.

Yup, I actually went ahead and bored out and actually trimmed the spring. Worked for 2 yrs. so far but, I haven't fixed the safey yet. I look one at every gun show I go to but never can find one. I guess I need to get the welder out.

[dinzag 31]

 

Another option for the G2 FCG...

[Ogar Lumox 1]

I'm doing my 308 right now. Three issues so far. 1st is the saftey. I don't have welding toys, so I ordered a Rom. F/A saftey to see if it will work. (g2 has no F/A tab on disconnector) If not, I'll hit the muffler shop where I used to work.

Second is the disconnector spring. The original is larger O.D. than the g2 hole. I'm ordering a new spring, rather than boring the new part.

Third, the g2 hammer has a knob on it that strikes the crossbar. The original is flat from the radius halfway up the hammer. I filed it down to fit.

I will update with more, but it may take a while.

 

I was going to say "Happy to see I'm not the only one having trouble with a TAPCO G2 FCG in a 308 Saiga" but this is not a laughing matter (gun Safety" that is). I am having the exact problems with this one.

 

1. The bump on the front of the hammer hits the cross brace and the hammer won't hit the firing pin.

2. The hole for the disconnecter spring is too small and the OEM spring won't fit.

3. the safety works sporadically and when it does work it releases the hammer when I move the safety into the fire position.

 

So I found a replacement spring for the disconnecter, now guess I will need to grind down the bump on the front of the hammer to clear the cross brace, and weld a tit onto the safety bar for a more positive lock up of the trigger.

 

So much for an easy drop in FCG mod. I'm a little ticked off about the whole thing.

 

Not so much that the TAPCO parts are bad, they just don't fit properly in a Saiga 308 and the instructions don't cover the situation.

[ralphie 0]

 

Another option for the G2 FCG...

 

Dinzag, could you elaborate on your post? Is this a standard modification you do on the G2 FCGs you sell for 308s?

[cellsworth 21]

 

Another option for the G2 FCG...

 

Dinzag, could you elaborate on your post? Is this a standard modification you do on the G2 FCGs you sell for 308s?

 

I'm not Dinzag, but I can tell you that Dinzag's .308 FCGs do include that modification. They address all of the issues peculiar to the .308 FCGs.