I'm sure this can't be done (but I can't see why not!)

[davidsuffolk 96]

I've been reading the forum for a while now, and as a non US resident, have sympathised with this US part count you have to go through to get a PG Saiga, let alone a 12K or even one of these Vepr's.

 

If I understand it correctly for the weapon to be allowed to be imported, it must have a "sporting purpose" but that, provided you meet the parts count, once it's in the US it can be modified to make it what you want. Because of this the more desireable versions like the 12K cannot be imported because they don't come in a sporting configuration.

 

BUT, these guns can be bought quite legally in other parts of the world. Here in the UK, if I had the money I could buy pretty much any of them provided it complied with our legislation and had a + 24" barrel though even that is not a problem for export for a dealer with the right credentials.

 

What I was wondering is why doesn't one of the forum members who is a dealer in the US supply the US made components to someone outside the US to modify the weapons so that when they are imported they already have the US parts count and can count as US made. It would seem fairly easy to send FCGs etc to a foreign gunsmith?

 

I'm sure there is some basic flaw with my thoughts (I know for example it's nigh on impossible to get bits sent from the US now due to all this 9/11 stuff but we do still get parts. It's just hard and long but they do eventually arrive)

 

Has anyone tried this? I was thinking of the UK but what about Canada or Mexico as neighbours or even Finland or Russia. If there is someone there who can legally sell guns into the US why can't he convert them before sending?

 

Can't be that easy or someone would have done it!! I just can't think where the problem lays.

[shooter2 5]

Can't be that easy or someone would have done it!! I just can't think where the problem lays.

 

I think the ATF would argue that the gun would still be in a non-sporting configuration (and thus prohibited from importation), even though some of its parts happen to be US-made. IOW, the US parts substitution rule only applies AFTER the gun gets here.

[kmoore 3]

Can't be that easy or someone would have done it!! I just can't think where the problem lays.

 

I think the ATF would argue that the gun would still be in a non-sporting configuration (and thus prohibited from importation), even though some of its parts happen to be US-made. IOW, the US parts substitution rule only applies AFTER the gun gets here.

 

I think you'd be right.

 

What if our foriegn importer (in England or wherever) was to remove the offending parts? Sporterize it? That seems like it effectively does what Russia does for us with the models we DO import.

 

We could even recycle the sporter stocks.

 

1. Model A comes from Russia to England

2. Folder/PG are removed and sporter stock is installed (model A-sporter).

3. Sporter version is imported to USA. (model A-sporter)

4. Model a is restored using US parts (Model A-USA).

5. Sporter stocks are returned to England. I'd guess that someone like Tony has a pile of takeoff's

 

I see a couple of large obstacles.

 

This would undermine the agreement between RAA and Russia, so Russia may not be willing? Or might be barred by agreement?

 

This would drive the cost up, our ~400 dollar shotty might now be ~600 to cover paying England, parts, extra shipping, etc. Now you are getting to the price range where we could just build them here?

 

This would still need to get ATF approval. While they are likely aware that Saiga shotties are being converted by individual owners and allow it, they might not be as accomodating if they sensed that this was going to happen to every single shotty, expressly set up to skirt 922 (legally, but against thier intent?).

 

Still, it's an interesting thing to try and work out.

[pedal2alloy 206]

What would be easier is to just assemble the whole thing in the U.S. l like Arsenal, AK-USA and Global Trades do with rifles. Most of the gun is still foreign parts too, just stay under the parts count which is easy.

[topmaul 42]

I know there is no way to tell but what percentage of Saiga weapons imported into the U.S. are modified? I would bet the precentage is pretty high. I know when I buy one it's for modification ofthen I have the parts before the gun.

[KYCitizen 0]

[acetomatoco 0]

[BattleRifleG3 16]

That's exactly what I was going to say too, they can't import the barrels or receivers of "nonsporting" guns, even if incomplete and having 10 or less parts.

 

I'll be frank - that's really not the hugest stretch of federal authority, regulating imports, HOWEVER I'd rather see it take the form of tarriffs (which was the constitutional source of revenue vs income tax) and be applied accross the board, that is to Chinese tire pumps and electronics, not just fine Russian shotguns. If legitimate tarriffs drove stock Saigas to $500+ but we didn't have income tax, I think we'd have a lot to be thankful for.

[G O B 3,516]

To do this, you need a bonded import warehouse. BATFE will allow the import of un-importable guns to the warehouse (in USA) the conversions must be done there, and BATFE inspected/approved as "made in USA" before transfer to the distributer or dealer for sale. This is how most of the otherwise un-importable guns are legally imported.

[Bvamp 604]

why fuck around? just talk the russians into bringing a set of tooling to make the guns here in the first place, and while they are at it, bring some of thier steel case making tooling, and have remington or winchester make ammo for 50 cents more a box than we pay now, so that we have it in quantity and permanently? then maybe we will see USA made ak47's for sale for 100 bucks.... why wouldnt the russians be interested in that? I fail to see why it hasnt happened yet, but I suppose the big american companies would have a hissy fit and try to block the move if it were to happen anyway.

 

to do anything else, seems to me like a waste of money...

[StarLynx 0]

.....I would imagine the Russians Idea of an employees payscale & what it is over here Is most probably as different as night & day...

[Bvamp 604]

well, thats pretty obvious, but still....most of that type of machining is automated anyhow...and its made from a spun and drilled metal rod and a piece of sheet metal. the only real human operations that I can see are the riveting and basic assembly that a blind man can do.

 

even if the guns cost 4-500, they will be complete and in the correct configuration off the shelf.

 

...I like the ammo idea better, anyhow.