misc 0 Posted July 27, 2006 Report Share Posted July 27, 2006 I'll be short and to the point. I sent my Saiga 308 to have a pistol grip conversion, side folding stock, a finish placed on it, and a flash hider installed for $410 returned. A refund of $50 was given for not installing the flash hider. He had it for almost a month a half and never bothered to communicate the issue with the flash hider. Instead explained in a letter accompanying the returned rifle, the flash hider could not be installed because of the position of the front sight. It would have to be replaced with HK type sights in order to get it to work so the $50 refund. Listed on his site are the fees in particular $175 for G3 sights(HK sights) and $50 for a flash hider. He didn't bother to communicate the particular cost($175) to do it his way. To me it's disappointing because I would have never sent the rifle to him in the first place had I known. The rifle was also missing the retainer spring which is suppose to be on it's way to his credit but will be returned to him. I didn't get a completed rifle but a disappointing waste of time and money. Anyone considering laying out a few hundred dollars for a conversion need to communicate clearly with the AK builder what you want done and in writing. It's your hard earned money! If this post last awhile it was be surprising. Misc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
fullchoke 0 Posted July 27, 2006 Report Share Posted July 27, 2006 I'm sorry that it turned out that way for you! Tony is a pretty cool dude, I am sure that he will make things cool with you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NoAim 0 Posted July 27, 2006 Report Share Posted July 27, 2006 (edited) Anyone considering laying out a few hundred dollars for a conversion need to communicate clearly with the AK builder what you want done and in writing. It's your hard earned money! If this post last awhile it was be surprising. I do that anyway. I sent off my pistols to H&K service in Trussville, AL. I had to talked to the guy on the phone, etc. and we agreed on what was going on. In each pistol box I include: - Return address - Work order - Agreed upon charge - Contact info - Any other relevant info I did this with Tony as well for sending the S-12 to get modified. I even included a picture of "this is what it should look like when done." I'm not trying to be insulting, but make it extremely clear of what I want. So far, no problems. Did you do this? Edited July 27, 2006 by NoAim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 " If this post last awhile it was be surprising. Misc" Nobodys going to delete your post, dude. It sounds like you got what you asked for, minus the flash hider, which you were refunded the cost of. Tony processes a lot of guns, so the thing with the retainer spring was unfortunate, albeit unusual. Also, I don't understand why you would return it to him after he sends it to you. "I didn't get a completed rifle but a disappointing waste of time and money"...You got what you paid for, a pistol grip conversion w/ refinish. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chapperjoe 0 Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 (edited) sounds like a simple mistake - I hear tony is actully human, though I can't confirm it! - but it looks like he did right, and I wouldn't hesitate to deal with Tony again, and I'm sure I will..... Edited July 28, 2006 by chapperjoe Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 (edited) Yep, he's right. I screwed this one up. I will handle it differently next time. No excuses here. Mods - Don't pull this guys post. Tony Rumore Tromix Corp Edited July 28, 2006 by TonyRumore Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sodak06 0 Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 Takes a good businessman to admit that, and to fix it. Good to know that there are still guys like you out there Tony! When I get my S-12 I will be sure to contact you! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 Im not pulling anything, nor had I planned to. I fully expect misc up there to wind up happy in the end. Tony does good business, and Im really not too worried about it, to be honest with you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vjor 2 Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 There is a man with big cojones, to admit he screw up, not to many people like that these days. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted July 28, 2006 Report Share Posted July 28, 2006 yup, its a rare breed, especially in the gun world.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HKUSP45C 0 Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 Takes a good businessman to admit that, and to fix it. Good to know that there are still guys like you out there Tony! I've been in business a LOOOONG time. It takes a little more than "Bah! I F'ed up, I'll do better next time." to make a customer happy. Especially if that customer is dropping C-notes. Not one, but multiple. I'm sure Tony does good work, he must to be recommended by the board, but unless something is going on through PMs or E-mails, he's getting none of my cash. I work hard for my money and when I spend it I expect a little consideration. If Tony couldn't do the job right he should have left the cash on the barrel and said "sorry, can't do that for the price." If he could do it it right, he should have. If he still can, he should. The Tromix conversions I've seen are beautiful and reasonably priced. After this thread it appears I'll likely never own one. My 2 cents. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PvtPyle 0 Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 The Tromix conversions I've seen are beautiful and reasonably priced. After this thread it appears I'll likely never own one. My 2 cents. Show me one manufacturer or dealer, or custom house who has not had a problem, dropped theball or over looked something and I will tell you you just haven't ask in the right place. In Tony's defense, he works his ass off for us and his individual customers. Sometimes stuff slips for everyone and considering the amount of custom work he does for individuals, well it happens sooner or later. The fact that he stands right up and takes responsibility is what you get with him. Just remember that because you dont see resolution being made here does not mean that it does not happen or they are not talking. We have had issues of our own during the process of developing the products he makes for us and he has always taken great care of us. We will continue to spend lots of money with him. We have not found a better AK smith or a more stand up guy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
wjm 0 Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 Takes a good businessman to admit that, and to fix it. Good to know that there are still guys like you out there Tony! I've been in business a LOOOONG time. It takes a little more than "Bah! I F'ed up, I'll do better next time." to make a customer happy. Especially if that customer is dropping C-notes. Not one, but multiple. I'm sure Tony does good work, he must to be recommended by the board, but unless something is going on through PMs or E-mails, he's getting none of my cash. I work hard for my money and when I spend it I expect a little consideration. If Tony couldn't do the job right he should have left the cash on the barrel and said "sorry, can't do that for the price." If he could do it it right, he should have. If he still can, he should. The Tromix conversions I've seen are beautiful and reasonably priced. After this thread it appears I'll likely never own one. My 2 cents. You joined the board yesterday, and your first post demeans one of the best in the business because one member posted that he wasn't happy with the way this particular conversion was handled. Do you have a clue how many very satisfied customers Tony has? Have you read through the posts on this board to get an idea of what most of the board members think about Tony Rumore as a person, as well as the quality of his work? Obviously not. You don't know Jack Shit about what Tony has, or is doing about making the customer happy. The last sentence of your post pretty well sums up your lack of thought process. Your not owning a Tromix conversion will certainly be your loss, not Tony's. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chapperjoe 0 Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 You joined the board yesterday, and your first post demeans one of the best in the business because one member posted that he wasn't happy with the way this particular conversion was handled. Do you have a clue how many very satisfied customers Tony has? Have you read through the posts on this board to get an idea of what most of the board members think about Tony Rumore as a person, as well as the quality of his work? Obviously not. You don't know Jack Shit about what Tony has, or is doing about making the customer happy. The last sentence of your post pretty well sums up your lack of thought process. Your not owning a Tromix conversion will certainly be your loss, not Tony's. plus freaking one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HKUSP45C 0 Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 Sweethearts: I may have joined yesterday, but I have been here awhile. I think that a businessman (Tony included) needs to do a bit more than acknowledge a f up. They need to make it right. I've seen no evidence of that here. Like I said before. "unless something is going on in PMs or E-mail he's not getting any of my cash" I didn't disparage Tony in way. I simply stated that I'd prefer to spend my money with a man, woman or company that stands behind thier work. Barring that, one that will make the customer whole. I'm not trying to get in a flame fest. I'm simply stating the facts as I see them. He (Tony) screwed up, admitted it, said he'd do better next time .... My 5 year old does the same thing. Let's just not make that out to be a great feat in human evolution. For real business, that deserves a pat on the back, you have to make it right. 50 dollar refunds are not enough. Doing the right thing the right way is. And yes, not owning a Tromix conversion is my loss, not Tony's ..... Sometimes principle is a bitch. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 (edited) Sir, There is a money back guarantee with everything I build, period. I had one customer who got a shotgun and I put the incorrect flash hider on the end. It was not removable, so I pulled out a fresh gun, converted it, and shipped a complete replacement gun. One guy on the board had wad fouling up his gas system, I builit him a new gun to replace it. I had one guy where his gun was damaged by UPS in shipping. I refinished it at no charge and paid his $40 freight bill to return it to me. I had another rifle where the end of the barrel got damaged. I offered to replace the gun or convert it into a Krink. He elected the Krink. I had one gun where ACE left out the stock retainment pin which caused the customer to drop his gun when it pulled out. I replaced the stock, the hinge, and refinished the entire gun for him. I have one gun here now that has a headspacing problem from the factory. The conversion was complete before I was aware of it. The customer's gun was promply exchanged for a new one and the conversion redone on it. If i can't fix the problem on his gun, I'm eating the whole thing. This particular guy does not want me to make it "right" for whatever reason. That is why he is returning the retaining spring. So in this particular instance, my only recourse was to refund his money. And yes, he is keeping the gun and all the work done to it. Tony Rumore Tromix Corp Edited July 30, 2006 by TonyRumore Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TEXASAK73 13 Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 Tromix is a popular guy for obvious reasons,I have not had a chance to deal with him as of yet.His customer care is impeccable,for a gun builder based off what I have read here.This is the first unpleasant thread I have read about him on any forum. He has not given me a reason to not have work done by him,the only thing holding me back is a shortage of time,and extra cash. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
HKUSP45C 0 Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 Sir, There is a money back guarantee with everything I build, period. I had one customer who got a shotgun and I put the incorrect flash hider on the end. It was not removable, so I pulled out a fresh gun, converted it, and shipped a complete replacement gun. One guy on the board had wad fouling up his gas system, I builit him a new gun to replace it. I had one guy where his gun was damaged by UPS in shipping. I refinished it at no charge and paid his $40 freight bill to return it to me. I had another rifle where the end of the barrel got damaged. I offered to replace the gun or convert it into a Krink. He elected the Krink. I had one gun where ACE left out the stock retainment pin which caused the customer to drop his gun when it pulled out. I replaced the stock, the hinge, and refinished the entire gun for him. I have one gun here now that has a headspacing problem from the factory. The conversion was complete before I was aware of it. The customer's gun was promply exchanged for a new one and the conversion redone on it. If i can't fix the problem on his gun, I'm eating the whole thing. This particular guy does not want me to make it "right" for whatever reason. That is why he is returning the retaining spring. So in this particular instance, my only recourse was to refund his money. And yes, he is keeping the gun and all the work done to it. Tony Rumore Tromix Corp Then, in my opinion, you are a "stand up guy." I never said you were anything less. I simply stated there was lack of evidence in this case. I appologise if I offended you. I also understand about customers not wanting to be whole .... never made any sense to me but I've seen it hundereds of times. If he won't allow you to "make it right", he's likely one of those customers you'd gladly be rid of anyway. My OP was not to disparage you or your company. I made it only to point out that: Admitting a fault is only half the solution. You appear to understand that. I probably will get the Tromix SBR afterall. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 I prefer not to air out personal business between myself and a customer on a public forum for obvious reasons. Clearly, the customer was extremely upset and chose not to allow me a second chance to fix the problem. That's his choice. I actually thought his initial post here was quite kind, compared to the other e-mails he sent me. It would not surprise me if he returns the refund check or tears it up completely. Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 Sounds to me like you're getting fucked here, bro. I guess that's just the cost of doing business. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted July 30, 2006 Report Share Posted July 30, 2006 the only company that I am aware of that has a 100% product rating (unheard of, nothing returned EVER for any reason) is a place I used to work at that built computers for the various military agencies out there. but then again, we are talking 120k for a 500 pound bomb-proof laptop, not a 1k gun. considering some of our customers were lockheed and ratheon, it was not an easy task. dont let people piss in your wheaties, tony. go blow the crap out of something out back, and it will all be AOK you cant make everybody happy. to the rest of you? if you see one person unhappy with something, and thats all, I highly doubt that is cause for you to doubt the workmanship that tromix does. there is a gun up for sale right now on this board that tony converted, with close and clear pictures. go look and then you can tell me then that you wouldnt pay tony to do work for you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
texlurch 0 Posted July 31, 2006 Report Share Posted July 31, 2006 Ever heard the old saying "the squeaky wheel gets the grease"? If you have been on the web over a week, you'll know that for every complaint posted, there are 1000 postives that aren't. Judging someones work or character from one persons post/point of view/experience... guess I just don't understand that theory at all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BattleRifleG3 16 Posted July 31, 2006 Report Share Posted July 31, 2006 I could think of a lot to say on the subject, but there's a point that I think lots of folk need to understand. Things like satisfaction guarantees, money-back guarantees, lots of the ways sellers bend over backwards for customers are not owed. People sometimes start to think that they're owed because a number of sellers offer them. But the nature of each business dictates whether or not that is reasonable. Basically, such offers are desireable and make a business competitive - but not legally or ethically owed to people. What is legally and ethically owed by sellers is honest business practice. Most importantly I do believe one should settle their issues in private before airing them into the open. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6500rpm 670 Posted July 31, 2006 Report Share Posted July 31, 2006 Tony's quality has always been A+ as a builder and in customer service. My opinion is that this is a bogus thread and that you should have given Tromix the chance to make it right before posting here in his back yard. My Italian brother has to be civil due to his business, I do not.........so Kissa my ass, you son-a-ma-bitch!!!!!!!!!!!! I need some points taken away anyway, I'm starting to feel like a pussy with no warnings thus far Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted July 31, 2006 Report Share Posted July 31, 2006 (edited) There are some people who cannot deal fairly, if they are the buisness owner, they go out of buisness eventually. If they are the customer--they are the honest buisnessmans hemorrorhd! (not an asshole, just a bloody pain in the ass!) The world would be a better place if we could just shoot the sonofabitches that are so ornery that they would bitch about being hanged-- even with a brand new rope! P.S. us dagoes do tend to stick together! Edited July 31, 2006 by G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
misc 0 Posted July 31, 2006 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2006 Well, I've been called worse ! It's amazing how the point has been entirely missed by some of the posters. As I stated and Tony never refuted. To get the job done his way would have cost another $175 plus shipping cost. I'm not a glutton for punishment. Secondly, no one stepped up and said," I had just a flash hider installed without issue so what's your grip!" ANYONE? I never deviated from what offered on the menu that being a flash hider installed for $50. Frankly, if it wasn't me it would have been someone else. So if this prompts Tony to do things differently like being upfront about what he will and will not do great! But sometimes the issue needs to be brought up though unpleasant as it may be to some and I stand by what I posted here. Misc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted July 31, 2006 Report Share Posted July 31, 2006 I still dont entirely understand what you are complaining about? its not tony's fault the front sight isnt properly placed on the barrel, and why would he eat the cost to press it off, adjust the barrel width or whatever needed to be done, put it back on STRAIGHT, and put a flashhider on there. but as you have stated above, it appears you expect people to work for you for free or something. send it up to me, and Ill take it over to a guy that does milling work for 35 years, and does custom tooling for ruger. he will fix it, and it will cost probably double what tony quoted you. I suspect any other builder you could have used would have just half-assed it, and put it on there anyway, unlike tony, who is well known for not doing a shitty job, regardless. maybe it wasnt handled in a clarity that you would have preferred, but its not the end of the world. I still dont understand how the fact that the gun is made out of spec. has anything to do with tony. you make like he screwed you over in a big way, when if he HAD just put the part on there, would probably REALLY have pissed you off. the guy apologised to you, refunded you money, and explained the problem. whats your gripe? is the OTHER work ok at least? you are badmouthing one of the best builders in the business because of a spring and a refund due to the fucked up front end of the gun. one other question for you. you say above tony didnt communicate the price of the work, yet you have it clearly written what the cost is. what the fuck do you mean he didnt communicate the cost? how the fuck do you KNOW the cost if it wasnt communicated to you? I can tell you one thing...if you had hired me to fix your house, and been a pain in my ass like you did to tony, I would have packed up and left after giving you your downpayment back. I dont deal with b.s. anymore. tony also suggested that you were extremely nasty in emails to him, and I am sure that you didnt get treated the same by him. I am not going to be involved in this discussion anymore, as like tony stated, it is his private business matter. I have been watching this closely, and will continue to, but I just couldnt help but add this post in here. you sound like you want tony to work for free or something, when its a problem with YOUR gun. not his problem, if you ask me. its not HIS gun. its what you sent to him. you didnt buy the gun from him and have him convert it and send it to you, and you act like its his responsibilty to fix a problem the factory caused for free. this just amazes me. sorry for the nasty reply. now back to your regularly scheduled program. Im confused what the complaint is about. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
misc 0 Posted August 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 Ok? The sight itself is straight in fact I've seen many Saiga 308s come through a gunshop I purchase from and never saw one canted sight. This is pointless! I wrote one cuss word in the emails I've sent but know I've made my point. Defend him it really doesn't bother me at this point. In fact I expect no less. Misc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BobAsh 582 Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 Fuck yes I'll defend him, asshole. Tony Rumore is my closest friend, and I know him to be a gifted gunsmith and a man of unimpeachable character. Because of his dedication to his work, you are effectively fucking him out of a pistol grip/folding stock job worth hundreds of dollars, and you have the balls to complain? Fuck you. (my apologies, bvamp...delete this post if you must) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
allyx 0 Posted August 1, 2006 Report Share Posted August 1, 2006 Sweethearts: I may have joined yesterday, but I have been here awhile. I think that a businessman (Tony included) needs to do a bit more than acknowledge a f up. They need to make it right. I've seen no evidence of that here. Like I said before. "unless something is going on in PMs or E-mail he's not getting any of my cash" I didn't disparage Tony in way. I simply stated that I'd prefer to spend my money with a man, woman or company that stands behind thier work. Barring that, one that will make the customer whole. I'm not trying to get in a flame fest. I'm simply stating the facts as I see them. He (Tony) screwed up, admitted it, said he'd do better next time .... My 5 year old does the same thing. Let's just not make that out to be a great feat in human evolution. For real business, that deserves a pat on the back, you have to make it right. 50 dollar refunds are not enough. Doing the right thing the right way is. And yes, not owning a Tromix conversion is my loss, not Tony's ..... Sometimes principle is a bitch. OH...Please, do you want some cheese with that! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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