HOLY OH MY GOD

[Azkamidaka 26]

So our friends at Halo are making a new shotgun called the P12. Ive known about the .22 minigun for a while but this is NEW to me! check it out in the forums under projects!!!

Edited September 6, 2006 by Azkamidaka

[Lagomorph 0]

looks pretty bitchin to me, looks kinda weird too, but thats whats said about every revolutionary design. I can see something like that filling alot of military and police applications. I think ill stick with my saiga tho, gotta have the semi-auto. I wonder if you could convert one of those mags to work with an s-12? (hush hush, gun grabbers might here you. we'll keep it on the down low.(someone had to ask)) Can't wait to see the finished product. Where are the sights?

[TacticalResponse 0]

If their P 12 was semi- auto instead of pump I would by one in a heartbeat.

[DaGroaner 2]

If their P 12 was semi- auto instead of pump I would by one in a heartbeat.

 

 

If it was semi-auto they could call it the DD-12 because you can bet UncleBATFuck would give it a DD designation for sure, especially with the NLFD.

[TacticalResponse 0]

Actually with the P 12 holding 20 rounds it will still become a DD even though it's a pump.

[Veen 0]

Great. Just MORE shit I'll have to go into debt for to buy up before uncle sam can buttfuck my freedom.

[kmoore 3]

Where are the sights?

 

Hehhehehehe , it's a shotgun, whatya need sights for?

 

This is the same prototype we discussed a year or so back. Lots of naysayers claimed rimmed cartridge + 90 degree turn = impossible. I didn't remember that it was a Halo project, might be we didn't know the source back then.

 

Sorry Saiga nuts, but I'll take a 20ga shotty that likely will reload like a bat outa haddess if all it costs me is the manual operation!

 

Hmmm, about those sights. Second question might be, were do you weld your cheek?, what's the funky trigger guard elements, etc.

 

I'm guessing they know what they are doing, but given delay on the Halo handguard, it would be a pleasant surprise if it was available in 2007, given the pricing on the Halo, it would be nice if it's under 1500 (thier pricing is totally fair in my book, just up there a bit), and given the changing political climate, it's be nice if civvies can get one without a $200 extra tax stamp.... sigh

 

Here's that thread, was May 2006!!!

 

oops, was a lot more recent than I remembered. Holy Cow, that's a prototype in May this year, and finished next year, that's pretty fast.

 

Oh yea, if you click on the thread skip my first post where I was pretty skeptical ....

Edited September 7, 2006 by kmoore

[MikeD 541]

I can't wait for this to come out. I am 2nd on the list to get one. I spoke with Halo back in early May for this spot. Also, unless they change their minds, the site said they won't be avaliable in black. I have a service for dyeing ps90's and fs2000's black so I'll be able to fix that, and anyone elses if their intersted. Same for your FN bullpups. Let me know.

Edited September 7, 2006 by Mike Davidson

[SinistralRifleman 0]

If it works, a 20 round magazine makes a pump worthwhile.

[TacticalResponse 0]

I would rather have my S 12's than a 20 round pump.

[300RUM 0]

Has Halo actually said if it would be considered a DD?

 

Everyone here automatically assumes any shotgun more than 10 rnds is DD. USAS, Striker, and StreetSweeper were named specifically as DD's at Loyd Bensteins (sp?) direction during a politically favoriable time.

 

(and no, I'm not trying to reargue the NLFD argument here.)

[GunsmithCat 0]

I can't really see this being designated as a DD, it is manually operated and US made. If it was semi-auto it would be most definetely designated as a DD though. Just like how a traditional gatling gun is not considered an NFA weapon due to it's manual operation. I can't wait to see how it turns out when it is ready to be released on the market. I suppose if someone was innovative enough they could buy one and turn it into a semi-auto gun without too much difficulty.

[PanchoVilla 0]

Looks EXTREMELY unweildy to me, even as a bullpup. And heavy. I'm not sure if it would be useful for anything besides competition for those reasons.

[inparidel 4]

So our friends at Halo are making a new shotgun called the P12. Ive known about the .22 minigun for a while but this is NEW to me! check it out in the forums under projects!!!

 

Could you provide the URL? I can't find anything resembling what you describe on that site. Thanks.

[MAC_TEK 0]

So our friends at Halo are making a new shotgun called the P12. Ive known about the .22 minigun for a while but this is NEW to me! check it out in the forums under projects!!!

 

Could you provide the URL? I can't find anything resembling what you describe on that site. Thanks.

 

 

Here you go inparidel,

http://www.halomfg.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7

[Tiny 2]

[BattleRifleG3 16]

Good luck stocking up on mags.

[IndyArms 10,186]

From the look of that clear magazine... I do not see any springs, or the like to feed the rounds forward... they look like the top row rolls forwards, and the bottom row rolls to the rear, then hits the spinner at the base... so how does it feed them? Gravity?

 

That whole thing looks more like a mockup than a real functioning firearm at *THIS POINT* I am not saying its not happening, or will happen... just that the pics may not be truly what we think they are...

 

 

[SinistralRifleman 0]

From the look of that clear magazine... I do not see any springs, or the like to feed the rounds forward... they look like the top row rolls forwards, and the bottom row rolls to the rear, then hits the spinner at the base... so how does it feed them? Gravity?

 

That whole thing looks more like a mockup than a real functioning firearm at *THIS POINT* I am not saying its not happening, or will happen... just that the pics may not be truly what we think they are...

 

 

 

It's called an SLA Model...it's not a functioning gun. SLA is a way to rapidly prototype parts before you invest thousands into molds.

 

A 10 round magazine would be better because there would be no potential stacking issues with the rims of the shells, and whatever sights you use could be closer to the bore.

Edited September 10, 2006 by SinistralRifleman

[kmoore 3]

From the original Saiga12 post ....

 

All the posts (except the one above) are the main reason we wont release info on this project!

If your going to bash the crap out it, you can at least bash it by name the "P12". There now you have somewhere to direct your bashing. If you think the magazine is "unusaual" wait till you see the gun! I understand some of the feelings expressed. Thats why you wont hear S**T about it untill we release the footage of it firing. It is going to happen. We already have a functional magazine. It holds 20 rounds by the way. If you really want someting to something to wrap your brain around. One of the mag designs doesnt contain a Magazine spring inside the magazine to function. Even the machinests at our company had a problem with that one, untill they saw the design.

 

The drawings that were found were only 6hrs old. This project will continue to be devoloped in to a working prototype in the next several months. You wont hear S**T about it untill then, untill people see the whole system work, there will be constant nay-sayers. So dont worry, Im not posting any photos of the rest of the gun, its revolutionary pump system, internals, or anything else. If you saw the rest of it, it may cause someone a heart attack. The design is based on several of our favorite gun platforms. We chose go completely backwards from anything ever built thus far.

 

Here, let me help throw some gas of the fire for you. Its a bull pup design, the pump isnt horizonal, its 80% plastic, 20 round mag, rotating locking bolt system, silicone parts used, and more. There you go...

BURN IT DOWN, BURN IT ALL DOWN!

 

Dont take this rant as me being pissed off, im not. I dont care. I know it works, I get to play with it.

I know with the people involved with this project are putting everything into it. I also know there is nothing like it on the planet, and when its done. Well sell the s--t out of them. There are already calls comming in from every direction. So feel free to bash on, Its COOL with us.

 

Remember, this is months old, but details likely have not changed.

 

I bolded the parts that pique the imagination.

Edited September 11, 2006 by kmoore

[762minigun 1]

Actually with the P 12 holding 20 rounds it will still become a DD even though it's a pump.

 

 

How do you figure that?

[SinistralRifleman 0]

here's a quote from the other forum:

 

Posted by Mega-Tron:

It's not considered a DD (destructive device) since it's a pump-action, not a semi-auto, shotgun.

 

The shotguns that are classified as DD's are semi-auto and have a high-capacity detachable mag. All semi-auto ahotguns that use detachable mags are not allowed to be sold with a mag capacity of more than 5 rounds.

AFAIK this is incorrect. There is no list of criteria published as to what features make a shotgun a destructive device. ATF assesses them on a case by case basis and will declare them DDs by Manufacturer and Model #.

 

This is what I was told at an ATF NFA conferance in Mesa back in 2004.

 

I specifically asked them what features make a shotgun a DD...they said there was no list. I asked them why a shotgun that is functionally identical to a USAS-12 like the Saiga-12 isn't a DD and they couldn't answer.

 

he definition of a "destructive device" is found in Title 26, United States Code, in section 5845(f). The definition reads as follows:

 

(2) Any weapon by whatever name known which will, or which may be readily converted to, expel a projectile by the action of an explosive or other propellant, the barrel or barrels of which have a bore of more than one-half inch in diameter, except a shotgun or shotgun shell which the Secretary finds is generally recognized as particularly suitable for sporting purposes;

 

It's completely arbitrary....they could very well decide that a 20 round detach mag shotgun is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes. Keep in mind the government considers Higher Power, IPSC, 3 Gun etc "combat shooting games" not sporting purposes.

 

They could decide the Saiga-12 is non-sporting at any time too...

Edited September 11, 2006 by SinistralRifleman

[G O B 3,516]

The finding of "sporting purpose" is COMPLETELY arbitrary. By code it is by "the secretaries finding". They can declare any shotgun with a bore over 1/2" a DD with no hearing or recourse to the publick. Tomorrow all semi-auto shotties-or even any shottie capable of holding more than 3 rounds may be a DD. That is why we are parinoid.

Just because you are paranoid, that doesn't mean that there is nobody after you!

[TonyRumore 1,332]

If the power for the feed box (spring) is in the gun instead of in the feeding device, then that clear plastic thing that holds the shells is a "clip", not a magazine.

 

Tony

[Azkamidaka 26]

Like in old M1 Garands?

[BattleRifleG3 16]

Exactly - Good observation, Tony.

[KySoldier 2]

Or perhaps there is no spring since its not a functioning gun anyway... Either way, what does it matter what you call it?

[inparidel 4]

 

HOLY, F***ing MOLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[G O B 3,516]

From the pix, it looks like the spring pressure pushes the round up an iclined screw shape- Or make that DOWN as the mag (NOT CLIP) mounts ABOVE the reciever. A clip "clips" the rounds together. If it CONTAINS (no part of the individual rounds exposed) the rounds it is a magazine. Garrands and carcanos have "en-block" clips. the front of the round is exposed, and they are "en-block" because the rounds are contained en-block or all together untill the last round is fired and then the clip is ejected. The clip does not have to be changed, just anaother full one inserted. A magazine must be changed.