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M1A VS Saiga 308


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How does the Saiga 308 shoot vs a Springfield Armory 308?

 

Why would a M1A be a better rifle?

 

M1As are generally more accurate, and are easier to accurize. Mags are cheap and parts/accesories are plentiful.

M1A is at least 800 bucks more expensive though.

 

Unless you are going to use the weapon for accurate long-distance work, the S308 is the better deal.

 

That is, of course, assuming that you only have the choice of 1 of them.

Otherwise, get both.

 

You know you want them both. Have them both.

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How does the Saiga 308 shoot vs a Springfield Armory 308?

 

Why would a M1A be a better rifle?

 

M1As are generally more accurate, and are easier to accurize. Mags are cheap and parts/accesories are plentiful.

M1A is at least 800 bucks more expensive though.

 

Unless you are going to use the weapon for accurate long-distance work, the S308 is the better deal.

 

That is, of course, assuming that you only have the choice of 1 of them.

Otherwise, get both.

 

You know you want them both. Have them both.

 

Well I can't afford them both, in fact I would have trouble affording an M1A by itself. What I am doing is trying to talk myself into buying a second Saiga in 308.

 

How does it differ from a M1A at 100 yards? 200? 300?

 

I realize that it wouldn't be as accurate as the M1A because of the built in tolarances of the AK receiver. I think it is a good trade off. I'm just curious how much I would be "trading off".

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well for starters you are comparing an apple and an orange. the saiga is capable of acceptable accuracy by acceptable i mean any rifle that will meet a military standard of 1 moa. 100 yard 1 in 200 yard 2in etc..

most commercial rifles will not meet thes criteria even scoped, remember i said most,, best most will do is 1.5 moa and this is by design because of an atf b.s. about snipers and terrorists crap,, so manufacturers loosened up the groups .. anyway,, the m1a is a modified and enhanced garand, it uses a different gas system although both are of piston form the m1a was designed like the garand with some tighter tolerences now this is not to say that they can't be lemons too,, in essence if you are not going to shoot high power competition buy the saiga, the only real advantage the m1a has over the saige is mag capacity 20 and 30s available for m1a ,8's for saiga with 20's on the horizon. for example i shoot an m14 in cmp competitons my gun even though it is a polytech will place 10 rounds of israeli 150 gr ball ammo into .70 inch at 100 yards iron sighted. wich sounds fantastic! until you get on the range and shoot next to the marines on our team who are keeping 2 and 3 in groups at 600 meters with competition ar15s using 77gr smk rounds. no bull ... but big diff between 223 and 308. would i shoot my sagia 308 at 600 meters, yes , have i yes, did i hit the target yes,, was it match quality , maybe,, kept them in the black but not bullseye. it comes down to what fits you and what you shoot well,and if your going to get into a converted 308 money wise you are not very far off from a rack grade m1a. so save your pennys and own them both.

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Typically the biggest reason for the accuracy difference is the sighting systems. The M1A with peep sights is generally more accurate than teh Saiga with V-Notch sights.

 

Of course, when you go scoped, the story changes a bit. At that point it all comes down to barrel quality, receiver movement, etc.

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If you've already got a saiga in 308, why are you contemplating another one? Different configuration (sporter vs. p-grip)? Different barrel length?

 

The sights can be (mostly) fixed by replacing the rear sight leaf with one from MOJO. ACE ltd. used to sell a replacment front sight drum for AKs that would allow the use of AR front posts (available in many "match" configurations). Other than that, I'd say that if you make sure there's either constant pressure, or no pressure, on the barrel and smooth out the trigger you should be very capable of competing. You might not win, but you'll probably scare the piss out of some people who are using much more expensive rifles.

 

Oh, and last I heard the US military accuracy standard was 4 moa, going down to 2 or less with "match" ammo. My sources are probably outdated though. I'm also under the impression that accuracy standards vary greatly between civilian manufacturers. I also don't believe for a minute that there is an pressure on the industry to make their rifles less accurate.

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Ah, I misread. Please excuse me. For the money, I'd take the saiga. The barrel is just as good as your standard M1A, if not better. It's more reliable. NRA highpower rules limit you to ten shot strings, which must include a reload. Usually competitors fire 2 then 8. Get yourself a good sling while you're at it.

 

What you don't spend on the M1A will buy you plenty of accessories and ammo for your Saiga. There's absolutely no reason not to shoot long range with the Saiga, especially if you are using a scope. The M1A does have better iron sights. I'll give it that. As long as you use the right ammo, there shouldn't be much difference in performance.

 

Hell, with what you would save buying a Saiga 308 you could easily get into reloading for it, and try several different powders/bullets. Work up a load that works right for your rifle, and you'll get all the practice that the same guy with an M1A would have, and spend less money.

 

Go for the Saiga.

 

Anyone care to give a testimonial regarding the S308 at "long" ranges? Let's talk Vermifrom into it!

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There will be intangables between the saiga and the M1a, one of which is that the M1A sling attaches to the stock, thus you can free float the barrel for more stablity. The saiga without a one peice stock means you will deflect the receiver slightly if using the sling to tighten up the rifle while shooting.

 

What ever rifle you settle on you need to get out and shoot it. This is where after a long life, the M1A may have a advantage of barrels but I am sure if you need a new barrel for your saiga it could be had too. You might have to have a custom barrel fitted to the rifle but its doable.

 

As said the custom and accuracy items available for the M1A are out there, it will be much harder to get for the Saiga in .308 but atleast there is one nice trigger out there, and other items can be had like sights to make the saiga more accurate.

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Um... yeah. I've used a shooting sling successfully with the S308. A little bit of work on the forestock will make sure that it doesn't contact the barrel when you're looped up. Even the attachment point for the forearm isn't bad. I doubt you're going to put a serious stress on the receiver while using a sling, and if you did, it would likely be a consistent one. No problems either way.

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well i like the replys here,, so lets see who can shoot their saigas well

i posted on board about cmp matches we have here in mo. at pioneer gun club, one is a commy gun match, the next one will be late next spring/early summer, i would like you all to think about making some plans and try to come, take a trip if possible, or to any of the cmp matches we have.. you can shoot a non standard rifle in the match rifle class ,instead of u.s. service rifle class. lets see some of those saigas shoot against some m1a's and ar15's.. i want to see some scowls and smiles!!! how about it?

check out www.pioneergunclub.org for more info...

or if anyone else has some matches similar post them lets get the rifles out and shoot.

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I look at rifles in 2 general categories.

 

Match/Sniper Grade and Rack Grade.

 

The Match/Sniper Grade are or can be accurized. The Rack Grade are your basic Battle Rifles.

 

Which is better depends on the application.

 

For me, I am equipped for a SHTF scenario. I really need more of a Rack Grade rifle. Iron sights suit me for this type of work.

 

The M1A sights are probably better in a way, but, the Saiga sights should be more than adequate. For under 200 yards in a SHTF situation, you would likely be doing a lot of instinctive shooting. The 'bad guys' would be ducking and weaving and taking cover. There may not be too many opportunities for precisely aimed shots.

 

When sights are set up to be very precise, they can be harder to hit moving targets than with the 'cruder' sights. The 'cruder' sights can allow you to keep a larger field of vision which is helpful for moving targets and also may allow for quicker target re-acquisition for follow-up shots.

 

Also, keeping in mind especially if you are NOT a trained military or SWAT sniper that maintains his razor edge preparedness, user friendliness is important. This goes for sights too. Precision CAN get in the way.

 

Within the range of the AK and for the applications for which the AK was developed, the 'crude' sights are perfect. That's why there has been millions and millions and millions and millions of them made with essentially the same type of sights.

 

There is always a trade-off.

 

Sometimes: More Accurate = More Restrictive or Too Restrictive

 

 

Moving 'bad guys' or moving soda cans > Saiga

 

Stationary 'bad guys' or stationary soda cans > M1A

 

 

YMMV

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  • 2 weeks later...

I wanted an M!A too but...

 

Lets see a springfield armory M1a goes for $1,200 and may shoot 2" groups "IF" you get a good one and maybe after you send it back to be fixed if they fix it right and i have heard of them being sent back twice for $1,200.

 

Now my saiga 16" barreled 308 benchrested at 100yds is shooting 1 1/2" groups using south african 308 fmj ball ammo and it costs $289 with tax they were $307OTD. Such a great gun for a little price I own 4 saiga's in 308 and i'm still under $1,200.

 

Now if you have to have an M14/M1a i deceided on the Fulton Armory M14. With its higher price your getting a top shelf quality M14. Now the Chinese norinco M14S is the only one with a forged receiver and these are great guns too even in orginal condition but you can heat treat the receiver up to 54 rockwell and fit all the orginal GI M14 inners and have one of the best builds out there. Again if you have to have an M14/M1a you have to pay more.

 

I am very happy with my saiga's in 308win and in 223rem.

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Vermiform, I think you answered your own question when you said that you couldn't really aford the m1a1.

 

But hey, the S308 is a great rifle regardless of cost. Especially if you intend to do the pg conversion and now that the 20 round mags are (almost) available. The pg conversion with the Red Star fcg gives you a great trigger and you can choose from several available stocks to suit your taste - carbine or sniper type.

 

I have the 16" carbine and it shoots 2-3" at 100 yards with milsurp Hertberger ammo and the iron sights. That makes it capable of hitting a 20" circle out to 500 yards. And that's plenty good. With a scope, given my personal experience I know that it will shoot 2" groups at 100 yards with that ammo.

 

With match ammo or tuned handloads, it is plenty clear that these rifles can shoot into 1-1.5" at 100 yards with ease.

 

So why worry about the Springfield?

 

A better alternative would be an FAL... but now I'm just muddying the waters...

 

You know the Saiga - if you like your 7.62x39 then go for a S308 and be happy. IMHO

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I been so happy with my saiga's in 308win when i seen the saiga in 223rem i got them too. I stayed away from the other expensive black rifle in 223 but at the sametime i was never fond of or even wanted a rifle in 223rem. As I seen the price of wolf ammo so affordable($95/1,000rds) i deceided to go for some saiga's in 223rem too. Thinking ahead I purchased many cases of wolf 223 ammo too while it was affordable. When the shortage and higher priced 7,62x39 just happened we switched to plinking with the saiga in 223 to save the 7,62x39 ammo i had stocked up on.

 

I shot an M14 a while back and it was a select-fire and it was awesome to shoot in full auto and in semi auto. It was the 9k price tag that kind of shocked me. Thats an aweful lot of military surplus guns and new saiga's that i could buy for 9k? In 3 1/2 years i will get my IRA(59 1/2) and i want something special for my retirement at that point even though i retired at 52 i'm still looking and trying to deciede on my purchase.

 

Now I have other rifles in 308 too but if I purchased the saiga first if it was available back then it would be the only 308 rifle i would own today for sure. I would still like to own an M1a/m14/m14s someday but for now the 308 saiga is sure keeping a smile on my face. Its a gun that most of us can afford. I think the russians had a great idea and are filling a good nitch in our gun market with a quality product. I'm sure someone at remington surely screwed up by going after the shotguns(spartan) and not the whole saiga line too.

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Vermiform,

According to one Russian site I've looked at, the Russian army is using the S-.308 (with wood furniture) as a sniper weapon out to 300 meters.

 

Decision made to get me one about a week ago. Just holding out for the right price here in town. Got a guy ordering one from a distributer now, just trying to find out when he can get it. $320 + tax.

 

Thanx for your opinions gentlemen, though I didn't need a whole lot of convincing. ;)

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:smoke: Basically comes down how much you want to spend and how 'patriotic/nostalgic' you are- my reason for having it,S-308-1-I go boar hunting and am trying long range shooting but cannot afford an M1A-$2k? Maybe good but i think Springfield is a little TOO PROUD of the product and is 'living off the name'. I talked to a local gunsmith who does work for variuos LE groups and he would NOT recommend buying a 'rack grade'-basic GI quality M1A, says you have to AT LEAST go for the $2K model,gets you a 'better' barrel and some other minor crap. So I guess a GI rack grade $1500 M1A is NO BETTER than my SAiga 308 for $500 with the factory scope!?!?

 

Just my 2 cents

Pic of my S 308-1 w/ bfg walnut furniture on it and fact scope-sun was low so scope looks longer. And here is MY idea of a fun little toy/'mass sniper weapon-yes I am disturbed... :smoke::eek::super::rolleyes:

post-2841-1160517304_thumb.jpg

post-2841-1160517433_thumb.jpg

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