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If you can only have one SAIGA


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  • 3 weeks later...

OK, I publicly eat crow, feathers and all. After pontificating about the virtues of the 223 (which are still valid) I traded off the 223 for a WASR, and then traded that for a 7.62x39 Saiga and 600 rounds of ammo.

 

I have started the conversion to PG. It is now done, except for the Dinzag bullet guide and Tapco G2 trigger group which should be here Monday or Tuesday.

 

I have stock piled about 2,000 rounds Barnaul and Golden tiger,l with another 500 coming. I have since found that 7.62x39 brass not to expensive (I got it for $150/500 virgin IMI annealed), dies affordable, and even a good 1600 fps hard cast plinking load.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Where did you find the IMI brass, rangemaster? I used to reload that for my Mini-30, but haven't been able to find any recently.

 

I've got bullets, powder and primers. Wouldn't mind picking up another 500 cases. Handloading keeps me from going too crazy at the range.

Bob

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Where did you find the IMI brass, rangemaster? I used to reload that for my Mini-30, but haven't been able to find any recently.

 

I've got bullets, powder and primers. Wouldn't mind picking up another 500 cases. Handloading keeps me from going too crazy at the range.

Bob

 

Sent you a PM

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Where did you find the IMI brass, rangemaster? I used to reload that for my Mini-30, but haven't been able to find any recently.

 

I've got bullets, powder and primers. Wouldn't mind picking up another 500 cases. Handloading keeps me from going too crazy at the range.

Bob

 

Sent you a PM

 

Thanks, rangemaster, I'll get on it.

Bob

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  • 3 weeks later...

I'll stick with my 223... Ammo for 223/556 would be very easy to find compared to other ammo if things ever got really bad since it's what our own military primarily uses. Plus you can carry more 556 than 762 if you have to hump it through the bush. And contrary to popular belief, 556 can easily kill a human size opponent. It's not just for plinking or varmint hunting anymore. Lol.

 

Now, if we lived in Russia or a former Warsaw Pact country, I'd go with 762 purely from an availability standpoint.

Edited by gothchick
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I'll stick with my 223... Ammo for 223/556 would be very easy to find compared to other ammo if things ever got really bad since it's what our own military primarily uses. Plus you can carry more 556 than 762 if you have to hump it through the bush. And contrary to popular belief, 556 can easily kill a human size opponent. It's not just for plinking or varmint hunting anymore. Lol.

 

Now, if we lived in Russia or a former Warsaw Pact country, I'd go with 762 purely from an availability standpoint.

 

While it's certainly true that 5.56 NATO is much more common in the States than 7.62x39 is, (since our military uses it), it is also true that if the shit ever truly hit the proverbial fan, it'd likely be easy enough to find not only ammo from military sources, but also military rifles, (M16's, M4's, etc).

 

For that reason and because of the fact that the 7.62x39 is more effective against not only humans, but as a hunting caliber as well, if I had to choose just one Saiga rifle from the poll choices given, it'd be a 7.62.

 

Of course if I could have only one Saiga weapon, it'd be the Saiga 12. It is a far more effective tactical shotgun than any product currently available to US citizens.. and only Russia makes em, (no Yugo, Chinese etc versions). I could pick up a semi-auto AK from another manufacturer. ;)

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  • 2 months later...
.

Besides, wolf ammo is $2.00 abox (20rnds), and normally buy 200 a pop, when I don't buy the case (1000 rnds) for $80.

this is all without saying that it's fun as hell to shoot!!!!!!!! pistol grip or no!

just my opinion.

 

damn i just realized this was from a year ago i got excited for a minute

Edited by dieb4iwake
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After using the S308 21" I have just got to go with that. Its just better at doing what a rifle does, hitting the target at as long a range as needed and not letting little things like cover get in the way. In fact Im considering, though not seriously yet, selling the x39 and buying ammo and another S308 in carbine length(16") for CQB. Yes the ammo aint cheap but its coming down and honestly its such an improvement to be worth the money.

 

Good thing about Saigas, always something else to learn to love.

Edited by Rhodes1968
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  • 1 month later...
After using the S308 21" I have just got to go with that. Its just better at doing what a rifle does, hitting the target at as long a range as needed and not letting little things like cover get in the way. In fact Im considering, though not seriously yet, selling the x39 and buying ammo and another S308 in carbine length(16") for CQB. Yes the ammo aint cheap but its coming down and honestly its such an improvement to be worth the money.

 

Good thing about Saigas, always something else to learn to love.

 

I _really_ wanted to get the 308 over the x39, but ultimately decided against it mostly because it's overkill for CQB. The bullets will go through the bad guy, through the internal walls, through the brick wall, and into the neighbor's house. Heck, even the x39 bullets might do that still, but they are less likely to. I still would like to get the 308 for longer range work (when I can afford it), but the x39 is the more versatile round for the situations I could see right now.

 

Jim

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Soft points in 308 take care of a lot of the problems you list. Im still thinking this over penetration obsession is blown way out of proportion and getting people killed because they were worried about that and not putting down the BG when selecting weapon and ammo.

 

That said the x39 will serve you well.

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I prefer the 7.62x39 to the .308 for general use for a few reasons.

 

Imo, the largest advantages the 7.62x39 has are higher magazine capacity and lower ammo cost. The 7.62x39 round is more than powerful enough to kill a man-sized target at close to medium rifle distances.

 

The .308 is a better hunting round, and obviously has more power, but it's not as versatile as a military caliber.

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  • 1 month later...

The problems, and lets face it most these are minor differences for the most part, are weight, accuracy, range, recoil, and penetration. The 308 will offer better performance on three of the five, accuracy, range, and penetration. Of these penetration is perhaps the least understood because its been treated as a disadvantage for many applications. Covering behind a car or brick wall is excellent against the 223, good against a x39, and concealment against the 308. Body armor has like results although that's a complex subject. There is no doubt accuracy resides in the 308s favor but doesnt really become an issue until you go beyond 150m so its situational. Range is just all 308, its good for hundreds of meters beyond the x39. Recoil is bigger than most may think, it affects the time between aimed shots, and x39 is much more manageable. Weight again situational but solidly x39 has the advantage, your x39 rifle is going to wiegh less, your load out will be lighter, and you can carry more rounds.

 

What the 308 gives you is a basis to build your entire rifle arsenal around. So many different types of rifles use the 308 there is really no reason to have any other cartridge outside of personal preference in some rifle. Bolt action hunting, sniping, MBR, Carbine, even MG if you will can be operated from the same ammo stores. This may be an issue for some not others.

 

Now it basically a matter of opinion which attributes outweigh the other.

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Undoubtedly the S12. It is the only one that I cannot think of something that is roughly the equivalent of it. Behind that it would be the .308. I feel that there are more good alternatives in 7.62 and .223. If it was what caliber to have any AK in then I would select the x39 second to the S12.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Well thats one way to look at the question.

 

Just inherited a old Ithaca Trench Gun I need to go get, not sure of the exact make but my mother-in-law says thats what her late husband called it so kind of excited if its what I think. Anyway that solves the shotgun issue.

The more I use either of my Saigas the more I like both but that 308 is just a hell of a rifle.

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

I picked the 7.62x39 for several reasons. One, I want to be realistic. I'm a realist, and a truth seeker. I've SEEN people hit a man sized target at 500 yrds with a .308 with irons. Some people can do that. I can't. Maybe 200 max, if I have my glasses on, and I take my time. With a 12x scope, 500 yards would still not be easy because my breathing causes the scope to move. I can, in reality easily it a target a 100yrds with irons, and a headshot with a 1x or 4x scope. With a .308, I can hit the same as 7.62x39. The only difference being the pure speed of the bullet. Its the same caliber in width, so at 100yrds, you get about the same knock-down power, and where I live, you won't be shooting past 250yrds max anyway.

 

The 7.62x39 round is cheap, plentiful, and the rifle can be converted BACK to being a real AK, so thus, will take the 30 & 20rnd mags. Its foolish, in a bad scenerio, to empty bullets at a target, and pray you hit them, its best to carefully place your rounds. One can hit a paper plate at 200 yards with a x39 pretty easy, the Saiga is MORE than capable of shooting 2.5 MOA if it is properly maintained. Mine fires like a swiss watch operates. Mine is the 16 barrel, and I have a grip pod to stand it on. I just like to be realistic about how my rifle works.

 

A paper plate, at 100 yrds, can be hit easily, even with my bad vision with irons. If you have been shooting all your life, like I have, you are used to using a firearm, you know how to place your rounds.

 

I'm not going to get into the .223. I don't like touching on that because I prefer a .30 caliber or better.

 

Don't focus on the irons when aiming, focus on your target.

Man is a predator, his eyes are focused forward.

Edited by JonTheSavage
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