mstranglr 9 Posted February 26, 2009 Report Share Posted February 26, 2009 Well, at least David G. is still an active member, hopefully he has made this decision years ago! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
unclejake 428 Posted March 1, 2009 Report Share Posted March 1, 2009 Thanks to a wonderful wife, I didn't have to decide, she got me all three!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Juggernaut 11,054 Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 Well, if I couls onw only ONE saiga... it would be an S12..... Then I'd get a really nice Parts kit for an x39...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
imarangemaster 315 Posted March 22, 2009 Report Share Posted March 22, 2009 OK, I publicly eat crow, feathers and all. After pontificating about the virtues of the 223 (which are still valid) I traded off the 223 for a WASR, and then traded that for a 7.62x39 Saiga and 600 rounds of ammo. I have started the conversion to PG. It is now done, except for the Dinzag bullet guide and Tapco G2 trigger group which should be here Monday or Tuesday. I have stock piled about 2,000 rounds Barnaul and Golden tiger,l with another 500 coming. I have since found that 7.62x39 brass not to expensive (I got it for $150/500 virgin IMI annealed), dies affordable, and even a good 1600 fps hard cast plinking load. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
555JM 10 Posted April 5, 2009 Report Share Posted April 5, 2009 Where did you find the IMI brass, rangemaster? I used to reload that for my Mini-30, but haven't been able to find any recently. I've got bullets, powder and primers. Wouldn't mind picking up another 500 cases. Handloading keeps me from going too crazy at the range. Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
imarangemaster 315 Posted April 5, 2009 Report Share Posted April 5, 2009 Where did you find the IMI brass, rangemaster? I used to reload that for my Mini-30, but haven't been able to find any recently. I've got bullets, powder and primers. Wouldn't mind picking up another 500 cases. Handloading keeps me from going too crazy at the range. Bob Sent you a PM Quote Link to post Share on other sites
555JM 10 Posted April 5, 2009 Report Share Posted April 5, 2009 Where did you find the IMI brass, rangemaster? I used to reload that for my Mini-30, but haven't been able to find any recently. I've got bullets, powder and primers. Wouldn't mind picking up another 500 cases. Handloading keeps me from going too crazy at the range. Bob Sent you a PM Thanks, rangemaster, I'll get on it. Bob Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SCBOWLES 0 Posted April 8, 2009 Report Share Posted April 8, 2009 can't believe on a saiga 12 forum your wondering what saiga to get if only one. saiga 12 of course. however 762x39 close second. would love to get a ver.21 however. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
imarangemaster 315 Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 I can carry a hell of a lot more 7.62x39 than 12 Gauge, and reach out much farther! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jeepranch 16 Posted April 9, 2009 Report Share Posted April 9, 2009 Well, if I couls onw only ONE saiga... it would be an S12.....Then I'd get a really nice Parts kit for an x39...... X2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evildog 20 Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 I would have to go with the S12, seeing how ammo is getting in short supply and there is lots of 12ga everywhere. Maybe not the range but man up close WOW Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gothchick 0 Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 (edited) I'll stick with my 223... Ammo for 223/556 would be very easy to find compared to other ammo if things ever got really bad since it's what our own military primarily uses. Plus you can carry more 556 than 762 if you have to hump it through the bush. And contrary to popular belief, 556 can easily kill a human size opponent. It's not just for plinking or varmint hunting anymore. Lol. Now, if we lived in Russia or a former Warsaw Pact country, I'd go with 762 purely from an availability standpoint. Edited April 24, 2009 by gothchick Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted April 24, 2009 Report Share Posted April 24, 2009 I'll stick with my 223... Ammo for 223/556 would be very easy to find compared to other ammo if things ever got really bad since it's what our own military primarily uses. Plus you can carry more 556 than 762 if you have to hump it through the bush. And contrary to popular belief, 556 can easily kill a human size opponent. It's not just for plinking or varmint hunting anymore. Lol. Now, if we lived in Russia or a former Warsaw Pact country, I'd go with 762 purely from an availability standpoint. While it's certainly true that 5.56 NATO is much more common in the States than 7.62x39 is, (since our military uses it), it is also true that if the shit ever truly hit the proverbial fan, it'd likely be easy enough to find not only ammo from military sources, but also military rifles, (M16's, M4's, etc). For that reason and because of the fact that the 7.62x39 is more effective against not only humans, but as a hunting caliber as well, if I had to choose just one Saiga rifle from the poll choices given, it'd be a 7.62. Of course if I could have only one Saiga weapon, it'd be the Saiga 12. It is a far more effective tactical shotgun than any product currently available to US citizens.. and only Russia makes em, (no Yugo, Chinese etc versions). I could pick up a semi-auto AK from another manufacturer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dieb4iwake 60 Posted July 12, 2009 Report Share Posted July 12, 2009 UH where's the S12 vote cuz thats what I'd choose if i could only have one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dieb4iwake 60 Posted July 16, 2009 Report Share Posted July 16, 2009 (edited) .Besides, wolf ammo is $2.00 abox (20rnds), and normally buy 200 a pop, when I don't buy the case (1000 rnds) for $80. this is all without saying that it's fun as hell to shoot!!!!!!!! pistol grip or no! just my opinion. damn i just realized this was from a year ago i got excited for a minute Edited July 16, 2009 by dieb4iwake Quote Link to post Share on other sites
white049 0 Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 Go with the 7.62 x 39.. More of a traditional AK maybe get a longer barrel since your a bigboy.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
white049 0 Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 (edited) Go with the 7.62 x 39.. More of a traditional AK maybe get a longer barrel since your a bigboy.... p.s. he said rifle I believe... Edited July 24, 2009 by Kube Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted July 24, 2009 Report Share Posted July 24, 2009 (edited) After using the S308 21" I have just got to go with that. Its just better at doing what a rifle does, hitting the target at as long a range as needed and not letting little things like cover get in the way. In fact Im considering, though not seriously yet, selling the x39 and buying ammo and another S308 in carbine length(16") for CQB. Yes the ammo aint cheap but its coming down and honestly its such an improvement to be worth the money. Good thing about Saigas, always something else to learn to love. Edited July 24, 2009 by Rhodes1968 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimdigriz 580 Posted August 29, 2009 Report Share Posted August 29, 2009 After using the S308 21" I have just got to go with that. Its just better at doing what a rifle does, hitting the target at as long a range as needed and not letting little things like cover get in the way. In fact Im considering, though not seriously yet, selling the x39 and buying ammo and another S308 in carbine length(16") for CQB. Yes the ammo aint cheap but its coming down and honestly its such an improvement to be worth the money. Good thing about Saigas, always something else to learn to love. I _really_ wanted to get the 308 over the x39, but ultimately decided against it mostly because it's overkill for CQB. The bullets will go through the bad guy, through the internal walls, through the brick wall, and into the neighbor's house. Heck, even the x39 bullets might do that still, but they are less likely to. I still would like to get the 308 for longer range work (when I can afford it), but the x39 is the more versatile round for the situations I could see right now. Jim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted August 31, 2009 Report Share Posted August 31, 2009 Soft points in 308 take care of a lot of the problems you list. Im still thinking this over penetration obsession is blown way out of proportion and getting people killed because they were worried about that and not putting down the BG when selecting weapon and ammo. That said the x39 will serve you well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted September 5, 2009 Report Share Posted September 5, 2009 I prefer the 7.62x39 to the .308 for general use for a few reasons. Imo, the largest advantages the 7.62x39 has are higher magazine capacity and lower ammo cost. The 7.62x39 round is more than powerful enough to kill a man-sized target at close to medium rifle distances. The .308 is a better hunting round, and obviously has more power, but it's not as versatile as a military caliber. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Garys4598 1,065 Posted September 8, 2009 Report Share Posted September 8, 2009 Well... having very recently sold my first owned TROMIX S-20, I now DO own only one Saiga rifle.... and it's the 5.45x39. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 The problems, and lets face it most these are minor differences for the most part, are weight, accuracy, range, recoil, and penetration. The 308 will offer better performance on three of the five, accuracy, range, and penetration. Of these penetration is perhaps the least understood because its been treated as a disadvantage for many applications. Covering behind a car or brick wall is excellent against the 223, good against a x39, and concealment against the 308. Body armor has like results although that's a complex subject. There is no doubt accuracy resides in the 308s favor but doesnt really become an issue until you go beyond 150m so its situational. Range is just all 308, its good for hundreds of meters beyond the x39. Recoil is bigger than most may think, it affects the time between aimed shots, and x39 is much more manageable. Weight again situational but solidly x39 has the advantage, your x39 rifle is going to wiegh less, your load out will be lighter, and you can carry more rounds. What the 308 gives you is a basis to build your entire rifle arsenal around. So many different types of rifles use the 308 there is really no reason to have any other cartridge outside of personal preference in some rifle. Bolt action hunting, sniping, MBR, Carbine, even MG if you will can be operated from the same ammo stores. This may be an issue for some not others. Now it basically a matter of opinion which attributes outweigh the other. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ljv308 3 Posted October 23, 2009 Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 (edited) 7.62 X 39 is the weapon of choice. Edited October 23, 2009 by ljv308 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zambidis 90 Posted October 27, 2009 Report Share Posted October 27, 2009 Undoubtedly the S12. It is the only one that I cannot think of something that is roughly the equivalent of it. Behind that it would be the .308. I feel that there are more good alternatives in 7.62 and .223. If it was what caliber to have any AK in then I would select the x39 second to the S12. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 Well thats one way to look at the question. Just inherited a old Ithaca Trench Gun I need to go get, not sure of the exact make but my mother-in-law says thats what her late husband called it so kind of excited if its what I think. Anyway that solves the shotgun issue. The more I use either of my Saigas the more I like both but that 308 is just a hell of a rifle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
banshee 69 Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Well thats one way to look at the question. Just inherited a old Ithaca Trench Gun . A true Ithaca trench gun? Those are the holy grail of Trench guns. Very, very,very rare and expensive when found.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Yeah I know its killing me since its in California and getting it shipped is a pita and just dont trust anyone to do it any way. Just have to get it myself when I can. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JonTheSavage 0 Posted December 13, 2009 Report Share Posted December 13, 2009 (edited) I picked the 7.62x39 for several reasons. One, I want to be realistic. I'm a realist, and a truth seeker. I've SEEN people hit a man sized target at 500 yrds with a .308 with irons. Some people can do that. I can't. Maybe 200 max, if I have my glasses on, and I take my time. With a 12x scope, 500 yards would still not be easy because my breathing causes the scope to move. I can, in reality easily it a target a 100yrds with irons, and a headshot with a 1x or 4x scope. With a .308, I can hit the same as 7.62x39. The only difference being the pure speed of the bullet. Its the same caliber in width, so at 100yrds, you get about the same knock-down power, and where I live, you won't be shooting past 250yrds max anyway. The 7.62x39 round is cheap, plentiful, and the rifle can be converted BACK to being a real AK, so thus, will take the 30 & 20rnd mags. Its foolish, in a bad scenerio, to empty bullets at a target, and pray you hit them, its best to carefully place your rounds. One can hit a paper plate at 200 yards with a x39 pretty easy, the Saiga is MORE than capable of shooting 2.5 MOA if it is properly maintained. Mine fires like a swiss watch operates. Mine is the 16 barrel, and I have a grip pod to stand it on. I just like to be realistic about how my rifle works. A paper plate, at 100 yrds, can be hit easily, even with my bad vision with irons. If you have been shooting all your life, like I have, you are used to using a firearm, you know how to place your rounds. I'm not going to get into the .223. I don't like touching on that because I prefer a .30 caliber or better. Don't focus on the irons when aiming, focus on your target. Man is a predator, his eyes are focused forward. Edited December 13, 2009 by JonTheSavage Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaigaScott 6 Posted December 16, 2009 Report Share Posted December 16, 2009 7.62x39, just, I feel it's more original. Now, I know you didn't list it on the poll, but I would love to have a 5.45, I want to give that a try one day. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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