BUFF_dragon 3 Posted November 19, 2006 Report Share Posted November 19, 2006 I finally got to shoot my gun today, and learned a little about is accuracy.... I found that if I let it cool down, the first shot was DEAD ON, the second shot was a little off, and it got worse the hotter the barel got... I was waiting a bit between shots so that I could re-aim, I'd say an average of 2-4 seconds between shots, no rapid-fires is this normal? what can I do to change this? all help is appreciated, thanx in advance guys Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steph 5 Posted November 19, 2006 Report Share Posted November 19, 2006 I would expect the point of aim to change as the barrel got warmer, which is a bit different from it's accuracy. Why don't you try shooting a bunch of shells and get the barrel good and warm, and then shoot a few groups to see how it is grouping when hot. That, I think shows its true accuracy. I'm not sure what kind of sights you have, that could make quite a difference; or your ammo, and consider it could be... you! (gasp!). What do you consider poor accuracy in a shotgun? There's a reason they don't make 12 gauge smoothbore sniper rifles. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BUFF_dragon 3 Posted November 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 (edited) oh I know part of it is me.... especially after all the rounds I'd put through it.... my shoulder was starting to get tender.... first shot of the mag I could hit exactly where I wanted.... by the fifth shot, I was almost around 2ft off, even shattered the wooden frame twice (once taking a corner off, the second almost splitting the top post) I'd say that was at a distance of 20-25 yards the center target (with the green blast away) is the one I had shot at that's me and the gun its a straight outta the box saiga... stock sights and all, I think that with the AK style front to help to compensate for the barrel heating up it may help, but I don't know for sure...... I would like this thing to hit the target (6inch disc) at 50 yards 99% of the time, I was shooting Federal 1oz 1300fps slugs, with the stock open choke.... the only thing I've added was a buffer pad on the bolt so that I didn't damage the gun with the slugs...... edit: I have those pics in a higher res on my website if it would help you to diagnose the shot pattern, and I have them even larger on my home pc.... let me know if ya want any.... the gallery can be found at http://www.bragnrights.com/gallery2/v/Misc/Guns/ Edited November 20, 2006 by BUFF_dragon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 oh I know part of it is me.... especially after all the rounds I'd put through it.... my shoulder was starting to get tender.... first shot of the mag I could hit exactly where I wanted.... by the fifth shot, I was almost around 2ft off, even shattered the wooden frame twice (once taking a corner off, the second almost splitting the top post) I'd say that was at a distance of 20-25 yards the center target (with the green blast away) is the one I had shot at that's me and the gun its a straight outta the box saiga... stock sights and all, I think that with the AK style front to help to compensate for the barrel heating up it may help, but I don't know for sure...... I would like this thing to hit the target (6inch disc) at 50 yards 99% of the time, I was shooting Federal 1oz 1300fps slugs, with the stock open choke.... the only thing I've added was a buffer pad on the bolt so that I didn't damage the gun with the slugs...... edit: I have those pics in a higher res on my website if it would help you to diagnose the shot pattern, and I have them even larger on my home pc.... let me know if ya want any.... the gallery can be found at http://www.bragnrights.com/gallery2/v/Misc/Guns/ I'm no expert, but I don't think there's anyway your shot would move that far due to bbl heat. I expected to hear you say it was moving 4 or 5 inches at 50 yards, 2 feet at 25 ... well, I'd go looking elsewhere to diagnose. You might consider a shooter that you trust can hold a good group. Or you might want to just check a few things. My experience with rifles taugh me you can move a bullet about that far by putting pressure on the bbl (slinging an non floated bbl, tripod on the bbl, etc). Shocked me. Pic doesn't look like this is an issue. Loose bbl, loose sights, hmmm, anything but a bbl bending sounds more likely (IMO). Maybe have someone load a dud round into the shotgun and check your "flinch" factor? Alternatively, I'd say that you could have a very defective bbl? that bends when heated? My groupings aren't spectacularly tight, but I expect to hold 6 or 7 inch groupings at 50 yards freehand. I haven't noticed a shift (slugs dont walk in one direction the hotter the gun gets). And others have posted much better groups. I'm curious to see how this pans out, let us know when you get it figured out? Also, let us know where you are. Maybe I, or someone close to you, could meet up and we exchange saigas to see if that tells us anything. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
caned45 4 Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 oh I know part of it is me.... especially after all the rounds I'd put through it.... my shoulder was starting to get tender.... first shot of the mag I could hit exactly where I wanted.... by the fifth shot, I was almost around 2ft off, even shattered the wooden frame twice (once taking a corner off, the second almost splitting the top post) I'd say that was at a distance of 20-25 yards the center target (with the green blast away) is the one I had shot at that's me and the gun its a straight outta the box saiga... stock sights and all, I think that with the AK style front to help to compensate for the barrel heating up it may help, but I don't know for sure...... I would like this thing to hit the target (6inch disc) at 50 yards 99% of the time, I was shooting Federal 1oz 1300fps slugs, with the stock open choke.... the only thing I've added was a buffer pad on the bolt so that I didn't damage the gun with the slugs...... edit: I have those pics in a higher res on my website if it would help you to diagnose the shot pattern, and I have them even larger on my home pc.... let me know if ya want any.... the gallery can be found at http://www.bragnrights.com/gallery2/v/Misc/Guns/ Try a bench rest or something. I mean free handed doesn't give you the best result. Resting on a wooden table huh..... well try a sand bag. Try bringing a bag of kitty littler. If your a real cheap bastard like me go to your local sand box and take a zip lock bag and a roll of duck tape. Okay to be honest the sand box was in my back yard!! Try a rest bipod or bad. Then you will see what the gun can do. The human factor always messes up things. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BUFF_dragon 3 Posted November 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 went back out there, and talked to some others (lengths aren't posted at the range) and was told that I was actually shooting at 50 yards..... now I feel stupid.... at 50 yards, that much error, I think it was mainly me flinching.... once I get a butstop pad, it'll be ALOT better because I won't have the plastic-to-shoulder reaction..... I'm gonna have one of my buddies take it out this weekend and shoot some groups to see if he does the same thing as I do..... so we'll see over the weekend hopefully.... thanx for the replies guys Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Buff, Folks have mixed opinions on shock buffers too. Some claim that it knocks off significant felt recoil, others don't notice so much. Some claim that it doesn't change reliability, others say guns jam more with them installed. Lastly, Doubt that anyone would claim that they don't protect your frame, question is how much protection it actually needs. There are several types (Buffer tech, Black jack, etc) and differing materials and thicknesses. I took mine out, didn't notice any recoil change (bird shot in competition really doesn't need taming), but some failures to eject went away. Hesitate to mention it, as I'm officially in the "don't use them anymore" camp, but you might find that they work for you? GL, and let us know. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BUFF_dragon 3 Posted November 22, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 as far as the bolt buffer, I installed that before I shot the first shell, its a hard plastic, and whatever brand that the place I bought it had.... but after tearing it down and looking, I see the places where the bolt has smacked, and where it would have hit the gun.... so I think I'll leave it in there I just got a limbsaver today, so we'll see if that helps me out, I know that with slugs I have had NO reload problems thus far, but I haven't shot birdshot through it yet, so we'll see how it does with some 00 this weekend, just bought a case when I bought limbsaver on a side note, also went and loaded up on .45 ACP, already had almost a case of 9mm, and .22...... so this weekend is gonna be FUN FUN FUN Quote Link to post Share on other sites
NoAim 0 Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 Looks like your shots were going to the right. So in short, watch your trigger control. It looks like you were yanking the trigger in anticipation of the recoil. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 Try bringing the butt to your shoulder loosely, and then roll your shoulder into the butt tight. This helps with felt recoil, reduces brusing and lessens the effect of having the gun pull to the right when the trigger is pulled rather than squeezed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
davidmdraege 0 Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 Buff, Each gun is different, but I plan on finally getting my Saiga out to the range this weekend. Weather's been crappy around here but Sat is supposed to be nice. My Saiga is still stock so it should shoot close to the same as yours. Were you using 2 3/4 inch or 3 inch slugs? Regular slugs or sabot? I'll pick some up on the way to range to try to get as close to the same situation as possible. The range I use is a state conservation range with properly marked distances and I have a rest, so I should be able to get you a good reading on mine. By the way, what's the kick like with that lite ass plastic stock? Should I wear my padded shooters vest? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
davidmdraege 0 Posted November 25, 2006 Report Share Posted November 25, 2006 Buff, I was able to get mine out to the range today. I only took 5 rounds to get a sample and not to do any serious shooting. I shot Winchester 3 inch sabot rounds and came up with the grouping you see at 25 yards using a rest. They patterened consistant if not exactly on target. I would go with the other suggestions here if I were you and go give it another try before you decide it is the gun. Hope this helps some. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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