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David C.

Is the Saiga 308 as reliable as the 7.62x39

Is the Saiga 308 as reliable as the 7.62x39  

55 members have voted

  1. 1. Is the Saiga 308 as reliable as the 7.62x39

    • The 308 is less reliable (please give reason in a post)
      4
    • The 308 is more reliable (ditto)
      11
    • They are equally reliable
      32


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It appears from reading members' posts that the .223 Saiga jams more or otherwise has more problems than the 7.62x39 Saiga. Since the rifle was originally designed for 7.62x39 (or at least it's daddy was) that makes sense. I was wondering how the reliability and function of the 308 rifles compare to that of the 7.62x39 rifles. Please share your experiences and observations.

Thank you,

 

David

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i havent used a saiga 7.62x39, so i can't compare the two, but i can tell you that the saiga 308 is extremely reliable. i have never had a failure in mine, and i have cycled numerous types of ammunition through it. i have used U.S. made 7.62x51 NATO, cheap tracers, pmc, remington, winchester, etc., etc. and the rifle hasnt failed me yet.

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I'll back up chips. The 308 of mine has not failed one time and it has had some of the India stuff run through it as well as Portugese and Australian surplus. The 7.62X39's have never failed either. They have had just about anything that fits in the chamber booted out the bbl .

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Theoretically, an AK that is chambered for .223 or .308 is gonna be less reliable (for some incredibly tiny percentage of "less") than their brethren that are chambered for the commie cartridges.

 

 

This is because the communist offerings (7.62x39 and 5.45x39) are bottle-neck shaped, and this helps greatly in the 'reliability' area.

 

.223 and .308 cartridge walls are virtually parallel to each other, and this can cause issues in a dirty chamber that won't be issues with the commie shells.

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come on nalioth i thought you hated necromongers lol.

Yeah, well.

 

What grinds me more than anything else is these anonymous redact.pngredact.pngredact.png who think that clicking a radio button constitutes "discussion". This is a discussion forum, not a "click the button and not say anything" forum.

 

What really gets me is that some totally redact.png software writer thought it would be a good idea that a vote in a poll BUT NO RESPONSE in the associated thread should bump threads to the top.

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How would you possibility be able to compare their reliability beyond the theoretical? The .308 Saiga has never seen the real world conditions of a conflict!

 

No one knows.

 

 

  • Like 4

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Yeah Nalioth, we have a lot of cowardly little Kool-Aid drinkers here that do one want an opinion, they want validation for whatever silly bullshit they already think. If I give someone a bad rep, which is rare, I at least have the courage to tell them. To do less is the act of a craven coward.

 

I have fixed yours.

 

Whether you like the S308 or not, the damned truth is that is is unproven! It has never been used anywhere, by any military. The Galil was well thought of, but when converted to .308 we found that they tended to crack bolts under heavy usage. Most people will never find out anything like that with a personal gun!

 

I honestly wonder if they S308 will face similar problems, without a record of hard usage, we may never know. THat is not some guy that says, "Well I like mine!" I thought about buying one myself, for a truck rifle, but the limited mags and the fact I have better .308 autoloading rifles talked me out of it.

  • Like 1

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Yeah Nalioth, we have a lot of cowardly little Kool-Aid drinkers here that do one want an opinion, they want validation for whatever silly bullshit they already think. If I give someone a bad rep, which is rare, I at least have the courage to tell them. To do less is the act of a craven coward.

 

I have fixed yours.

 

Whether you like the S308 or not, the damned truth is that is is unproven! It has never been used anywhere, by any military. The Galil was well thought of, but when converted to .308 we found that they tended to crack bolts under heavy usage. Most people will never find out anything like that with a personal gun!

 

I honestly wonder if they S308 will face similar problems, without a record of hard usage, we may never know. THat is not some guy that says, "Well I like mine!" I thought about buying one myself, for a truck rifle, but the limited mags and the fact I have better .308 autoloading rifles talked me out of it.

Hence my original answer here being "theoretical".

 

All things being equal (no sissy bolts, etc) the margin of "less reliable" due to the cartridge geometry is gonna be pretty damn thin.

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Any information is going to be anecdotle at best, considering as stated above, the SAIGA 308 has not seen true combat.

 

My anecdotle eveidence is hey are as reliable as any other gun I own, as O have ran both the 16" and 22" through tac rifle matches shooting 150-200 rounds per match without any hiccups, bumps or majpr malfs (other than operator error on sight alignment).

 

Again, anecdotle at best and unless and until a country fields the weapon as a MBR, we'll never know.

 

However, my gut says they are made by a grup taht has been building Aks for a long time and if anyone could do it ISZMASH was the one I'd pick.

 

YMMV

 

Spoon

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From what I understand about the standard AK, nalioth is quite correct. It is the tapered shape of the cartridge that allows for more tolerance for sand water or mud.(among other aspects of the guns design). I don't mean nothin', I'm just sayin'.

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You also have to keep in mind that the Sovs produced the Dragunov in 7.62x54 for years without it having a rep for reliability issues.

 

I'd like to think that when the Saiga was designed in 7.62x51, some tech and specs from the Dragunov were factored into the design.

 

That said, I have several thousand rounds through three S308s without issues.

 

FWIW

 

-Ulf

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The reliability of the AK springs from the design not the ammo. Same design equals same reliability. I can only speak for myself but Ive not had a single malfunction of any kindon the S308 even during break-in. The x39 gave a few issues the first 500 rounds but not the first malf since.

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Theoretically, an AK that is chambered for .223 or .308 is gonna be less reliable (for some incredibly tiny percentage of "less") than their brethren that are chambered for the commie cartridges.

 

 

This is because the communist offerings (7.62x39 and 5.45x39) are bottle-neck shaped, and this helps greatly in the 'reliability' area.

 

.223 and .308 cartridge walls are virtually parallel to each other, and this can cause issues in a dirty chamber that won't be issues with the commie shells.

 

Don't forget to add the more robust case rim!!!!!!! The less case taper increases the chance of a torn case rim during extraction in contaminated conditions. (This is more of an issue with the .223 than the .308)

 

Frosty

 

One last thing on the untested S308, we will really never know it's true issues as it is not an Automatic rifle! The constant usage by inexperienced operators in fully automatic conditions is the true test. Look at photos of the AK74 rifles in use by the Russian army (not the propaganda photos) and you'll see they are abused, used hard and put away wet. If a firearm can withstand this type of treatment, that's a true testament.

 

So the answer boils down to if the S308 mechanism can stand up to the 7.62X51 for the long haul and the quality of available magazines and how well they withstand wear.

Edited by Fluid Power

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How do they like Wolf steel case? I'm 100% this is my next purchase, been dying for a .308 for years now, but haven't kept track of x51 surplus prices (other than an incredible deal for South African in the same ad with 100. Ishapore 2A's); was my understanding it comes and goes like that, that S-308 rifling favors 147 or something far lighter than 168 gr.

Is black tip AP hard to get? Haven't noticed any in '06 in a long time.

 

Purchase after that will be, BTW, a good quality 5.45x39 Probably Arsenal. Expensive for an AK but a S-5.45 conversion to same probably runs the same and no work involved. Anyway the reason: I have looked at ads for that surplus...3 cases with the rifle at least, and add to that (you guessed it, a Dracula Spl. Tokarev is #3 in 2010; Who needs a .22 for cheap plinking). One thing though, the Bakelite brick-red 30 rounders. WTF? I remember a few years ago (somewhere 2002-2004, the factory lowcap era), big sporting good store having a 3' square cardboard box heaping with these. "$10 EA." was Xed out and "$5" next to it. Those bastards go for over a hundered now? What about an :osama: 45 rd. RPK bananner?

I can't beleive that shit. I need a crystal ball

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I'd say its less reliibly due to the feed system. The AK 47 and 74 both use bullet guides to point the round up and into the chamber. A saiga .308 depends on a slight constriction in the mag body to point the round up. When mags get really old they will likely open up at this constriction and feed to low causing jams. Obviosly you can fix this easy enough you just need to know what to fix.

 

(I think mini-14s use a similar arangement which could explain some of the aftermarket mag problems).

 

 

EDIT:

We are talking more or less hypothetical, the saiga .308 is still an AK and still very relilble, just that if there is a weak point that would be it.

Edited by csspecs
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That wouldn't apply to composite mags would it?

 

Never seen an issue on steel either but sure you guys have seen a lot more than I.

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It applys to any mag made for the rifle. AK mags can vary a lot and still work pretty well, not so much with the saiga .308 mags. I'm sure if they had designed the rifle from the ground up for .308 it would be 1/2-3/4 inch longer and have a bullet guide of sorts.

 

Even still we are talking about many thousands of round before it would likely cause problems, and then metals can be adjusted with pliers maybe a little heat and oil quench to stiffen the metal back up. And composites can probably have something similar done with a heat gun or soldering iron. Its just the cases rubbing past the point of constriction that will at some point thin the area out, odds are the gun would be worn out before thats a problem if you have a few mags.

 

And to answer the steel cased ammo question... Its all I feed mine, it seems to like it just fine and with the money saved on a few cases I can buy another rifle.

Edited by csspecs

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Might want to give Brown Bear a try first, cheaper than Wolf and more accurate in my rifle at any rate.

 

That has been my experience too and cheaperthandirt.com has 20 rounds for under $7.00, I have 1000 coming tomorrow :)

 

As for reliability... It shoots fine when its clean, never a jam, ftf or fte, but then again, I never throw mud or sand in my weapons, only grease and solvents...

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None of you have realized the OP hasn't been seen in 5 years (shortly after he made this poll, most likely)?

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None of you have realized the OP hasn't been seen in 5 years (shortly after he made this poll, most likely)?

 

True, but if you look closely you'll see it was you who first resurrected this thread 5 years later :haha::smoke:

 

Steppe Sweeper they like wolf just fine.

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None of you have realized the OP hasn't been seen in 5 years (shortly after he made this poll, most likely)?

 

True, but if you look closely you'll see it was you who first resurrected this thread 5 years later :haha::smoke:

 

Steppe Sweeper they like wolf just fine.

No, it was not.

 

I (unfortunately) responded to "a new post" because some anonymous intro-penised user decided to "click and run" without leaving a commment.

 

The board software bumping poll threads to the top w/o any new content in them is just a shoddy design.

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I've expirenced a complete stoppage with Magtech 308 win. 150 gr purchased on the cheap at Cabelas. Bolt was jammed up so bad I almost had to take a rubber mallet to it to extract round. That was in my Saiga 308. Then picked up my DPMS 308 panther and with the same ammo had the same malfunction. I am wondering if anyone else has had problems with the magtech 308 ammo? I have previous used Federal 150 grain to sight in scopes on both rifles and had no malfuction.

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Did you shoot ammo that had lacquered cases (like wolf brown bear ect.). If so it is melted lacquer or carbon build up that bonds to brass cases. Some cleaning chemicals can also leave behind a coating that will make the first couple rounds stick.

 

The fact that it did this in both rifles seems to point to the ammo at the problem.

 

Either way more comments will likely come in the next few hours.

Edited by csspecs

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My .308 Saiga won't jam and I'm confident enough to bet my life on it.

I've not had a single jam shooting cheap Brown bear ammo exclusively. In my estimation the .308 Saiga has a similar level of reliability as the 7.62 x 39, not that there may be legitimate reasons why it shouldn't. For me its a definite step up from the mini 30 I traded in on the Saiga which could scarcely fire 20 rounds without some kind of embarrassing mishap not to mention the accuracy issues.

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