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s308: battle rifle or sniper?


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I've been struggling with the "battle rifle" options out there for some time. I just can't see spending $1700+ for the DSA I want so I thought I'd try the Saiga. I ordered a wood stocked 22" that will arrive this week. At first I thought I'd put an Aimpoint on it since it probably wouldn't be very accurate, but after reading some of these posts, I may scope it and see what it can do. Anyone know if the Russians use it for fieldwork?

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I bought a 22 inch model to turn into a sniper clone

It seems to be a popular way to go with the rifle...

 

With that said, this is not a sub MOA rifle and I dont see the point of having a "sniper" rifle if it is not precise (I know they are good enough for a kill, but most people will be punching paper)

 

With that said, I chopped my barrel down to 16 inches, gonna thread it and add a flash hider

Im going for an lightweight rifle to use on foot patrols, basically a battle rifle

 

I think it is better suited for abattle rifle, though the 22 inch version is balanced horribly for offhand shooting and extended carrying

 

But if you like the look of dragunovs and wanna add the stock and the bipod and a nice scope, then by all means do that and then get the 16 inch version down the road

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I've been struggling with the "battle rifle" options out there for some time. I just can't see spending $1700+ for the DSA I want so I thought I'd try the Saiga. I ordered a wood stocked 22" that will arrive this week. At first I thought I'd put an Aimpoint on it since it probably wouldn't be very accurate, but after reading some of these posts, I may scope it and see what it can do. Anyone know if the Russians use it for fieldwork?

 

I went to the gun shop looking to buy an FAL, and ended up with the Saiga .308.

 

It's more accurate than any other commie rifle I've fired, but I wouldn't put either the rifle, nor the shooter (me) anywhere near the "sniper" category.

 

I have noticed that when a haji gets a dragunov, he thinks he's a sniper. The rifle might do the job, but the shooters aren't even close.

 

Cool username, BTW.

Edited by lazlong
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"Im a going for the "Designated Marksman" type setup on my gun. Not match grade, but enough to hit something at long range."

****************************************

 

This is a very good approach IMO.

 

The commie 'sniper' rifles are actually more like "Designated Marksman" rifles anyway. They don't compare to Western real deal sniper rifles in terms of accuracy.

 

You could start with a Saiga relatively cheaply and then accurize it to your hear's content. You will learn a lot in the process and be well prepared for you next rifle.

 

You can experiment with different scopes at different powers etc.

 

You can experiment with different hand loads if you wish.

 

You will find out first hand how much accuracy a rifle is capable of and how much accuracy you really require.

 

By the time you 'milk' every bit of accuracy possible out of a Saiga you will likely have answered all your questions and far more. Then you will have new questions.

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Ding, I've gone through the same dilemna with mine. I originally had it set up as a sniper with PSL furniture, and I really liked it that way. But the more I played with it, the more I thought, "ya know, this thing is essentially a more accurate FAL."

 

So I reconfig'd it as an MBR. i had it set up that way for a while, then decided to go back to a DMR set up, but didn't really want a t-hole again.

 

So i set it up as an M76, and REALLY liked that. But, I still liked the MBR set up, so now I have come up with a config that meets all the requirements. I've got it set up similar to an M76 with a POSP, but with East German bakelite stocks, and I think I really, REALLY like it. I'll post pics later.

 

The great thing about the saiga, is that you can config it to whatever you mood happens to be that day.

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You need two. That way you can have the best of both worlds.

I have always wanted a "real" Drag, but never had it in the budget. So I made a clone, with the added plus that I can shoot the same surplus 7.62 as my M14, G3, CETME, etc.

 

Now I have another in 16" that is getting a bunch of mods, for more of a MBR. It will have a Kobra, while the 22" has the PSOP.

 

 

Like I always say, "there is no such thing as TOO many AK's"

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Agree - leave your new S308 in its long-barrel configuration - use a nice 4xPSO scope on it and try some match 308 ammo and be prepared for a pleasant experience.

 

And get a 16" model to convert to pg config like this:

20500PDRM0360.JPG

This is the most "basic" pg conversion and took a little over an hour to accomplish - not counting the receiver painting and baking.

 

Or, if you decide you want a battle rifle instead of the sniper/designated marksman rifle, then sell your long barrel and use the funds to get a 16"...

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I bought a 22 inch model to turn into a sniper clone

It seems to be a popular way to go with the rifle...

 

With that said, this is not a sub MOA rifle and I dont see the point of having a "sniper" rifle if it is not precise (I know they are good enough for a kill, but most people will be punching paper)

 

With that said, I chopped my barrel down to 16 inches, gonna thread it and add a flash hider

Im going for an lightweight rifle to use on foot patrols, basically a battle rifle

 

I think it is better suited for abattle rifle, though the 22 inch version is balanced horribly for offhand shooting and extended carrying

 

But if you like the look of dragunovs and wanna add the stock and the bipod and a nice scope, then by all means do that and then get the 16 inch version down the road

 

 

Do you have to do mods to the gas system, or do you just chop & shoot?

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My buttstock is a Warsaw length K-Var stamped receiver model. The pistol grip is a Galil copy from Ace Limited. I was considering a Dragunov buttstock but my hand felt cramped. The Saiga handles great despite the barrel length.

 

Huh, looks longer in the pic - in reality, the NATO length is what? only 1" longer or so. But it does make a difference for taller shooters. That's the same buttstock that I have on mine.

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"Im a going for the "Designated Marksman" type setup on my gun. Not match grade, but enough to hit something at long range."

****************************************

 

This is a very good approach IMO.

 

The commie 'sniper' rifles are actually more like "Designated Marksman" rifles anyway. They don't compare to Western real deal sniper rifles in terms of accuracy.

 

You could start with a Saiga relatively cheaply and then accurize it to your hear's content. You will learn a lot in the process and be well prepared for you next rifle.

 

You can experiment with different scopes at different powers etc.

 

You can experiment with different hand loads if you wish.

 

You will find out first hand how much accuracy a rifle is capable of and how much accuracy you really require.

 

 

By the time you 'milk' every bit of accuracy possible out of a Saiga you will likely have answered all your questions and far more. Then you will have new questions.

 

 

A couple hundred thousand dead Germans from WWI and WWII would consider the Mosin Nagant to be an effective Commie sniper rifle - not to mention the use in Viet Nam.

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"A couple hundred thousand dead Germans from WWI and WWII would consider the Mosin Nagant to be an effective Commie sniper rifle - not to mention the use in Viet Nam. "

********************************

 

A number of deaths does not a sniper rifle make.

 

I was speaking more of the semi-auto variants encountered TODAY.

 

Most of the deaths you mentioned were from rifles that had the accuracy of Designated Marksman rifles of TODAY

 

The famous Sgt. York did his feats with iron sights. He was sniping without a scope. The rifle he used was not what was considered a sniper rifle yet he killed people with it. It wasn't even a Designated Marksman rifle.

 

All rifles are lethal (even those with iron sights only) as are pistols, submachine guns, grenades, mortars, artillery, bombs, poison, land mines, 2 x 4's in the right hands etc. The fact that they can and have killed people is not the point. The point is accuracy.

 

TODAY, the standard has been raised in terms of what constitues SNIPER grade accuracy.

 

The degree of accuracy of yesterday's sniper rifles is what the Designated Marksman rifles are TODAY.

 

The Eastern Bloc nations sniper rifles of YESTERDAY AND TODAY have the same degree of accuracy of today's Designated Marksman rifles.

 

The Western nations true sniper rifles of TODAY will outshoot any Eastern Bloc sniper rifle (commonly deployed) any day of the week.

Edited by Oswald2001
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True a Drag is not going to outshoot the custom U.S. Sniper rifle, but they have a lot more of their version. There is a differant doctrine in place, our rifles fill our needs and theirs fill theirs. Just as a Drag would be insufficient for our snipers, our sniper rifles would not work for their tactics. As well as the weapon designed for the job.

 

Which is better, well both do the intended job. So I don't know. I'm sure the Ruskies could make a decent western style sniper rifle if they wanted.

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Once saw a photo of a Russian unit patrolling in a Chechan forest. The man with the Drag had the scope off, just one more rifleman ready with 10 rounds of semi-auto full charge thirty.

Another was a short vid clip, Chechans here and one of them HAD a Saiga.

Always seemed to me a Saiga is a hunter that can live rough and do other things.

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Soviet/eastern bloc doctrine on snipeing is different and application of the weapons within units is different. Thus comparison of the rifles aint the same. The saturation of these rifles within units of any army with soviet tatics is at the company level and even squads.

 

Be glad because this is why there is such a availablity of these things on the us market. I imagine there have been as many romak three rifles imported as have been built by the us services for snipeing now.

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Thanks for all the feedback. This is the coolest forum on the net.

 

I didn't intend to compare the Saiga to say an M40 or M24. I don't think there is a semi auto out there that can touch one of those. Not even a PSG-1. Russian sniper deployment is different from ours in a battlefield environment to be sure. What got me going on this topic was something that I read about Beslan and the difficulty the snipers there had getting follow-up shots on moving targets. I don't know the who's who of the Russian response teams or what their snipers used (the article didn't say) or even if it was refering to snipers specifically. But it did raise an eyebrow. The shooters must have had something other than an SVD or AKM.

 

I heard the SV-98 made at Izhmash is a tack driving bolt gun in the M40 class, shooting 7.62x54R. It was intended for special operations like counter-terrorist work where surgical precision was needed. Could be the rifle the article was talking about. Follow up shots with an SVD or even a Saiga should not have been an issue in the open.

 

I also heard some Spetsnaz were using Saigas in some configuration.

 

I don't know, it just got me thinking about how we would respond to a similar event of that scale. I pray we don't ever have to.

 

I'm all for a rifle that bridges the gap between an entry gun and a western sniper rifle. One that could be used for either in a pinch but was meant for putting down hard targets. On the move, behind cover, multiple targets or a balls out firefight, and be able to take some rough treatment. I think the Saiga is just what I've been looking for.

 

I'll be needing some of those 20 rounders though. DC.

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