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Noc, there is NOTHING wrong with your Saiga. If you are comfortable with it and it meets your shooting needs, don't let these "convert elitists" tell you it's an inferior weapon. I think it's a rock and roll setup.

 

And post-apocalyptic, there's a thread made specifically for the issue of converting vs. non-converting. Let's keep this about the pictures, shall we?

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And I have his cousin  

Here's my Arsenal/Mime (no fighting please) 7.62x39 Russian Red Saiga convert "desk conversation piece" and weekend warrior...  

This project was actually finished around this time last year, but I thought it was time to finally put it up for the Izhmash/Saiga purist like myself out in the crowd.     While it's nothing s

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Noc, there is NOTHING wrong with your Saiga. If you are comfortable with it and it meets your shooting needs, don't let these "convert elitists" tell you it's an inferior weapon. I think it's a rock and roll setup.

 

There is nothing "elistist" about it.

 

Either convert it the proper way, or have the rifle resemble a bubba special. It isn't difficult at all to do a basic conversion.

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Noc, there is NOTHING wrong with your Saiga. If you are comfortable with it and it meets your shooting needs, don't let these "convert elitists" tell you it's an inferior weapon. I think it's a rock and roll setup.

 

There is nothing "elistist" about it.

 

Either convert it the proper way, or have the rifle resemble a bubba special. It isn't difficult at all to do a basic conversion.

 

I never said there was anything elitist about the action of converting your rifle. Don't put words into my mouth please. I said that people who give other people a hard time because they won't convert their rifles are elitists. I know plenty of chill people on this site who have decided to convert their rifles and aren't jerks about it, i.e., they recognize that it's just a matter of personal preference.

 

"Bubba special?" I mean, c'mon. Guess what? We're talking about AK-47's here. They're not AR's or M-14's; they're AK-47s. One less inch of metal or a slightly better trigger won't make it any less of a "bubba special" than it already is. Try to see things in perspective.

 

And as I said before, there's already a thread for this discussion. If you want to piss in someone's ice cream go there.

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Not sure about the bubba parts comment but if that implies that I made a cheap work around to get the parts on this gun, you are sadly mistaken. The parts on this gun are high end American made addons and replacements. So if having a bubba gun means having expensive parts on your AK to increase utility and function, then I am guilty as charged.

 

The trigger will not be converted unless I can decrease the poundage and shorten the pull range of it. Otherwise there is no need. So if there is an upgrade out there that will do this, I am all ears.

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Noc, there is NOTHING wrong with your Saiga. If you are comfortable with it and it meets your shooting needs, don't let these "convert elitists" tell you it's an inferior weapon. I think it's a rock and roll setup.

 

There is nothing "elistist" about it.

 

Either convert it the proper way, or have the rifle resemble a bubba special. It isn't difficult at all to do a basic conversion.

 

 

Ha! He only said what the rest of us were thinking. :haha:

 

Lets also be realistic, converting your rifles will add: Value, Utility and Ergonomics. Like ShellShock says its not very hard.

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Not sure about the bubba parts comment but if that implies that I made a cheap work around to get the parts on this gun, you are sadly mistaken. The parts on this gun are high end American made addons and replacements. So if having a bubba gun means having expensive parts on your AK to increase utility and function, then I am guilty as charged.

 

The trigger will not be converted unless I can decrease the poundage and shorten the pull range of it. Otherwise there is no need. So if there is an upgrade out there that will do this, I am all ears.

 

Oh, it's quite clear that the aftermarket parts you have on your rifle are pretty top-shelf. They have nothing to do with the "Bubba special" comment made by shellshock. He's referring to the fact that your rifle currently has the "sporter" style rearward positioned trigger group that Izhmash is forced to inflict on all Saigas in order to legally import them to the States.

 

The proper conversion that I referred to was the process of putting the trigger group back where it belongs on an AK, right behind the mag release.. and putting a proper pistol grip, (independent of the stock), where it belongs, right where your trigger is now.

 

Not only does this make the rifle shorter, but it improves the balance and handling of the weapon, and it also improves the action of the trigger, which you specifically mention. Currently your trigger is in the "Rube Goldberg" setup that must be in place to operate it that far to the rear. It has many unnecessary linkage parts that make the trigger somewhat sloppy and definitely over-complicated. Converting your rifle will allow you to install a trigger group that is nearly identical to the setup on a true AK, (minus the selective fire of course). It uses fewer parts and gives the trigger a better, shorter pull.

 

It sounds as though you're genuinely ignorant of the benefits of and the parts involved in a proper trigger group/pistol grip conversion. Look around a bit and you'll find videos and pictures that show you exactly what I've talked about in this post.

 

Once you do, buy the parts and convert your rifle. It improves the weapon in every way.

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Noc, there is NOTHING wrong with your Saiga. If you are comfortable with it and it meets your shooting needs, don't let these "convert elitists" tell you it's an inferior weapon. I think it's a rock and roll setup.

 

There is nothing "elistist" about it.

 

Either convert it the proper way, or have the rifle resemble a bubba special. It isn't difficult at all to do a basic conversion.

 

 

Ha! He only said what the rest of us were thinking. :haha:

 

Lets also be realistic, converting your rifles will add: Value, Utility and Ergonomics. Like ShellShock says its not very hard.

 

Value: What's the point? Why would anyone sell their rifle with the immenent threat of an "assualt weapon" ban?

Utility: Er, epic fail. Utility pretty much just means "usefullness". If you think converting makes the rifle more "useful", that's just an ergonomic preference and is therefore a superfluous item to add to your "list" as you have already listed "ergonomics".

Ergonomics: Personal preference. I drive a Camaro Z28. That's my preference. I don't crap on your car (even though it probaly is a crappy car). Bug off.

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It sounds as though you're genuinely ignorant of the benefits of and the parts involved in a proper trigger group/pistol grip conversion. Look around a bit and you'll find videos and pictures that show you exactly what I've talked about in this post.

 

Once you do, buy the parts and convert your rifle. It improves the weapon in every way.

 

Completely ignorant. I'm an Air Force Security Forces type that deals with M4's all day long. But still appreciates the AK47 for the durability and ruggedness. (Which is why I now own one)

 

The trigger mod is now something I am definitely looking forward to doing considering there is a huge weight balance issue with the riffle itself. With both scopes on, it's very difficult to hold for over 60 seconds due to the front end weight.

 

If the trigger being moved forward corrects this issue, I will 'git er done' as soon as I can.

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It sounds as though you're genuinely ignorant of the benefits of and the parts involved in a proper trigger group/pistol grip conversion. Look around a bit and you'll find videos and pictures that show you exactly what I've talked about in this post.

 

Once you do, buy the parts and convert your rifle. It improves the weapon in every way.

 

Completely ignorant. I'm an Air Force Security Forces type that deals with M4's all day long. But still appreciates the AK47 for the durability and ruggedness. (Which is why I now own one)

 

The trigger mod is now something I am definitely looking forward to doing considering there is a huge weight balance issue with the riffle itself. With both scopes on, it's very difficult to hold for over 60 seconds due to the front end weight.

 

If the trigger being moved forward corrects this issue, I will 'git er done' as soon as I can.

 

Oh, it'll most definitely help with that balance issue. Also, as I mentioned, the new trigger pull will be more crisp and shorter. And then of course your pistol grip will be independent of your stock, which gives you more equipment options. Check out this board.

 

Start there and you'll soon find all the info you need both on parts and the work involved, (don't worry, it's easy and you can do it yourself).

Edited by post-apocalyptic
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Its funny how the only people that argue that their un-converted saiga's are just as good are probably just pissed that they spent $70-$100 on those crappy buttstock-grip thingys when doing the real conversion can cost FAR less. to save money I even used the "weld" method and salvaged the old trigger guard. I mean why wouldn't you do the real conversion considering its easy, costs less, and doubles-triples the resale value. I sense lazy-ness.

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Noc, there is NOTHING wrong with your Saiga. If you are comfortable with it and it meets your shooting needs, don't let these "convert elitists" tell you it's an inferior weapon. I think it's a rock and roll setup.

 

There is nothing "elistist" about it.

 

Either convert it the proper way, or have the rifle resemble a bubba special. It isn't difficult at all to do a basic conversion.

 

I never said there was anything elitist about the action of converting your rifle. Don't put words into my mouth please. I said that people who give other people a hard time because they won't convert their rifles are elitists. I know plenty of chill people on this site who have decided to convert their rifles and aren't jerks about it, i.e., they recognize that it's just a matter of personal preference.

 

"Bubba special?" I mean, c'mon. Guess what? We're talking about AK-47's here. They're not AR's or M-14's; they're AK-47s. One less inch of metal or a slightly better trigger won't make it any less of a "bubba special" than it already is. Try to see things in perspective.

 

And as I said before, there's already a thread for this discussion. If you want to piss in someone's ice cream go there.

 

 

Not sure about the bubba parts comment but if that implies that I made a cheap work around to get the parts on this gun, you are sadly mistaken. The parts on this gun are high end American made addons and replacements. So if having a bubba gun means having expensive parts on your AK to increase utility and function, then I am guilty as charged.

 

The trigger will not be converted unless I can decrease the poundage and shorten the pull range of it. Otherwise there is no need. So if there is an upgrade out there that will do this, I am all ears.

 

Answer me this.

 

Why not convert? If you want a pistol grip AK, why don't you convert it to the proper configuration?

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Outstanding. Thanks man.

 

You're welcome. I'm glad to help any member of this board, really, but especially an airman. I'm a USAF vet myself, (SSgt, served 1996-2002), though I was a 1N5, (radar intel troop), not a SP.

 

Thank you for your service. I mean that sincerely and I thank every AD troop I see.

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Outstanding. Thanks man.

 

You're welcome. I'm glad to help any member of this board, really, but especially an airman. I'm a USAF vet myself, (SSgt, served 1996-2002), though I was a 1N5, (radar intel troop), not a SP.

 

Thank you for your service. I mean that sincerely and I thank every AD troop I see.

 

I secong that. Thanks, and Go Air Force: I was an 81150/52 with 142 Security Police Flight, 1979 to 1981 PANGB, Ore. (that was reserve time. I was active army 1974 to 1977. I decided to go with AF for reserve because of better chow, and I had an opportunity to be one of the unit armorers and got to play with the toys. Gotta love the M203, the GAU5A/A, and "The Pig" (M-60)!

 

My Son-in-law is a Navy FA18 Super Hornet instructor pilot, and tolerates my Army and Air Force affiliations!

 

I guess to keep this post "on topic," I will announce that I will post pictures of my further converted 7.62 as soon as they are available!

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Not sure about the bubba parts comment but if that implies that I made a cheap work around to get the parts on this gun, you are sadly mistaken. The parts on this gun are high end American made addons and replacements. So if having a bubba gun means having expensive parts on your AK to increase utility and function, then I am guilty as charged.

 

The trigger will not be converted unless I can decrease the poundage and shorten the pull range of it. Otherwise there is no need. So if there is an upgrade out there that will do this, I am all ears.

 

Tapco furniture, although US made, IS considered to be the most cheaply made stuff out there. Use what you like, but understand that considering that stuff "high end" is an uninformed comment. The high price tag comes from the fact that they don't make Saiga specific furniture in large runs due to low demand. In AK circles, USA made usually equates to poor quality compared to the eastern European or Chinese military components (except for trigger groups), this is especially apparent with USA made AK magazines. You think that some folks on this board snub their noses at Tapco furniture, try posting a "Tapco-ized" or "Crapco" AR on AR15.com and those guys will browbeat the hell out of you. Use it if you like it and be happy, but try to avoid posting that it is "high end" stuff. For what you paid, and a couple of hours time to convert, you could have bought some really nice furniture.

 

FYI, converting will cut trigger poundage in half, greatly shorten pull, and give a consistent pull and crisp break. If you are serious about taking advantage of the Saiga's potential, converting is in order. If you like it as is for plinking around and have no great plans for the rifle, just leave it as is and be happy.

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Personally, I wouldn't consider my setup being a sniper utility weapon. A 3x zoom as a flip up addon just aids in seeing your bullet marks on 50 yard targets.

 

a 1x is almost impossible to see where you are hitting unless you are using neon targets that glow profusely after struck.

 

Even then at 50 yards it's still not quite visible. If I were going to use this for a sniper or long range hunting weapon, I would put a 6x24x60 mildot on it.

 

As far as the conversion, this is my first Saiga and import. With all of the American parts I have on it now, you would think it's compliant as is.

 

If there is something I am missing, please fill me in.

 

I have also gone through and subtracted from the parts list on the compliance form and it appears I am legal according to that. But again I might be missing something.

 

 

what aimpoint is that?

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Personally, I wouldn't consider my setup being a sniper utility weapon. A 3x zoom as a flip up addon just aids in seeing your bullet marks on 50 yard targets.

 

a 1x is almost impossible to see where you are hitting unless you are using neon targets that glow profusely after struck.

 

Even then at 50 yards it's still not quite visible. If I were going to use this for a sniper or long range hunting weapon, I would put a 6x24x60 mildot on it.

 

As far as the conversion, this is my first Saiga and import. With all of the American parts I have on it now, you would think it's compliant as is.

 

If there is something I am missing, please fill me in.

 

I have also gone through and subtracted from the parts list on the compliance form and it appears I am legal according to that. But again I might be missing something.

 

 

what aimpoint is that?

 

comp2 with a 3x mag

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Personally, I wouldn't consider my setup being a sniper utility weapon. A 3x zoom as a flip up addon just aids in seeing your bullet marks on 50 yard targets.

 

a 1x is almost impossible to see where you are hitting unless you are using neon targets that glow profusely after struck.

 

Even then at 50 yards it's still not quite visible. If I were going to use this for a sniper or long range hunting weapon, I would put a 6x24x60 mildot on it.

 

As far as the conversion, this is my first Saiga and import. With all of the American parts I have on it now, you would think it's compliant as is.

 

If there is something I am missing, please fill me in.

 

I have also gone through and subtracted from the parts list on the compliance form and it appears I am legal according to that. But again I might be missing something.

 

 

what aimpoint is that?

 

comp2 with a 3x mag

 

 

strange.. when did you get it? the reason i ask is i noticed the lettering is white.. and mine is not.. also the ones on the site are not white..

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If you'll indulge me for a moment. My guns are converted, my buddy's (at the time) was not. I pulled the trigger on his (still in the sporter position) and thought i had dry-fired on an empty chamber... but no, i just hadn't pulled FAR or HARD enough. I had been on my G2 triggers in my shotgun and rifles so long that the sloppy, long, heavy sporter trigger tricked me into thinking i had already let the hammer down WELL before I had.

 

It's like upgrading a computer. You don't realize how good and fast your new computer is until that day you have to go back and use the old one... then the sluggishness is totally apparent.

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I understand that Tapco mags are not sturdy like Bulgy polymers, and that some folks don't like the T6 (I happen to think it is a decent buy for the $$$, but don't care for collapsible on an AK) or the Tapco folder (I agree, not sturdy enough.

 

Two definite exceptions to Tapco being thought of as "Crapco." The Tapco G2 FCG is in my opinion one of, if not the best on the market. My converted Saiga with a single hook G2 has a 2 lb trigger pull, smooth as glass. Their SAW grip for the AK is excellent, also. The Galil Saiga specific handguard is decent also, and a nice change if you don't want to mess with retainers.

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I understand that Tapco mags are not sturdy like Bulgy polymers, and that some folks don't like the T6 (I happen to think it is a decent buy for the $$$, but don't care for collapsible on an AK) or the Tapco folder (I agree, not sturdy enough.

 

Two definite exceptions to Tapco being thought of as "Crapco." The Tapco G2 FCG is in my opinion one of, if not the best on the market. My converted Saiga with a single hook G2 has a 2 lb trigger pull, smooth as glass. Their SAW grip for the AK is excellent, also. The Galil Saiga specific handguard is decent also, and a nice change if you don't want to mess with retainers.

 

 

ill agree with the second paragraph...

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I like the Tapco T6, (the only Tapco product I have on my Arsenal SGL20). Obviously it's not the best collapsible M4 style stock out there, but it's a nice product for what it costs ~$45. It's pretty damned tough and has worked well for me so far. /shrug

 

I might buy a "better", (more expensive), stock for my rifle down the road, but right now ammo, ammo, and ammo are my priorities. ;)

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