Picture Post,lets see your 7.62x39

[gothchick 0]

Yeah, it's a Krebs. I love it. Fits really well. Holds Zero perfectly. Integrated iron sites. Top quality. Plus Marc & Brian @ Krebs have the best customer service around. :-)

 

Only negative is that it doesn't co-witness.

 

Nice, it looks fugly as all hell, but functional none the less. Thanks again for letting me know.

Haha, yeah I thought your setup was pretty weak. Did you ever get the conversion figured out? Lol~

Edited March 31, 2009 by gothchick

[saigafan12345 21]

...unless there is some retarded law preventing you from finishing the conversion.

 

To be honest, the main thing stopping me from doing the real conversion is NJ's law. Avtomat Kalashnikov type firearms are banned by name. And furthermore it says:

 

2. Any firearm manufactured under any designation, which is substantially identical to any of the

firearms listed in paragraph 1 above. As used in this definition, the term "substantial" means

pertaining to the substance, matter, material or essence of a thing and the term "identical" means

exactly the same. Hence, a firearm is substantially identical to another only if it is identical in all

material, essential respects. A firearm is not substantially identical to a listed assault firearm unless

it is identical except for differences that do not alter the essential nature of the firearm.

The following are examples of manufacturer changes that do not alter the essential nature of the

firearm: the name or designation of the firearm; the color of the firearm; the material used to make

the barrel or stock of the firearm; the material used to make a pistol grip; and a modification of a

pistol grip. This is not an exclusive list.

 

Which lately got me to wondering, if one had a converted Saiga, would that then be considered "substantially identical" to an AK-47?

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

^ Wow, what bullshit. Joisey sucks. I'm not sure if a converted Saiga would be questionably legal under that law, but DamagedWorld has a converted .223 Saiga and he lives in NJ I believe. I don't think he's been arrested for possessing that "assault rifle".. so perhaps that law you quote doesn't apply to pg converted Saigas. *shrug* Just one more reason I'm glad I don't live in the Northeast.. y'all got some fucked up, unconstitutional shit on the books there!

 

Of course under King Barry... bullshit laws like that will likely soon apply to the whole country.

[VladTepes 160]

...unless there is some retarded law preventing you from finishing the conversion.

 

To be honest, the main thing stopping me from doing the real conversion is NJ's law. Avtomat Kalashnikov type firearms are banned by name. And furthermore it says:

 

2. Any firearm manufactured under any designation, which is substantially identical to any of the

firearms listed in paragraph 1 above. As used in this definition, the term "substantial" means

pertaining to the substance, matter, material or essence of a thing and the term "identical" means

exactly the same. Hence, a firearm is substantially identical to another only if it is identical in all

material, essential respects. A firearm is not substantially identical to a listed assault firearm unless

it is identical except for differences that do not alter the essential nature of the firearm.

The following are examples of manufacturer changes that do not alter the essential nature of the

firearm: the name or designation of the firearm; the color of the firearm; the material used to make

the barrel or stock of the firearm; the material used to make a pistol grip; and a modification of a

pistol grip. This is not an exclusive list.

 

Which lately got me to wondering, if one had a converted Saiga, would that then be considered "substantially identical" to an AK-47?

 

 

 

by following your concern the Saiga is "substantially identical" already as it shares the identical "action" of an AK.. the reason its NOT illegal to convert a Saiga is due to the following..

 

http://www.state.nj.us/lps/dcj/agguide/assltf.htm

 

A semi-automatic firearm should be considered to be "substantially identical," that is, identical in all material respects, to a named assault weapon if it meets the below listed criteria:

 

 

A. semi-automatic rifle that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of the following:

 

a folding or telescoping stock;

a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;

a bayonet mount;

a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and

a grenade launcher;

 

if you do the PG conversion and the rest of the shit you are fine providing you dont have more than ONE of the items listed.. detachable magazine is ONE pistol grip is TWO... keep off the other items and you are fine..

 

NJ law is the reason it is hard to put a muzzle brake on these rifles..

NJ law is NOT a reason to leave the saiga unconverted..

 

it IS an AK... but it is NOT "substantially identical" to a banned AW because it ONLY has TWO "evil features"

 

i am obviously not a lawyer.. but this is the same reason you can purchase other pistol grip rifles... ive invested a TON of TIME and effort following the letter of the law.. TO the letter.. the reason that list exist is to bring clarity to the vague terminology of substantially identical..

Edited March 31, 2009 by DamagedWorld

[VladTepes 160]

Lol at all the unconverted Saiga wannabies. Just do the conversion. Lol. Believe me, the trigger group is night & day better after it's been converted.

 

I don't have a 7.62, but I did do this 5.56 all by myself. Not that hard. Seriously.

 

 

just curious.. it looks like you have some decently high end stuff on the rifle.. why not go with the ultimak gas tube and be able to cowitness....

[tupeloslim 0]

Lol at all the unconverted Saiga wannabies. Just do the conversion. Lol. Believe me, the trigger group is night & day better after it's been converted.

 

I don't have a 7.62, but I did do this 5.56 all by myself. Not that hard. Seriously.

 

Lol, at you calling people unconverted Saiga wannabies when your Saiga is an AR wannabe if I've ever seen one.

[tupeloslim 0]

Lol at all the unconverted Saiga wannabies. Just do the conversion. Lol. Believe me, the trigger group is night & day better after it's been converted.

 

I don't have a 7.62, but I did do this 5.56 all by myself. Not that hard. Seriously.

 

Lol, at you calling people unconverted Saiga wannabies when your Saiga is an AR wannabe if I've ever seen one.

[VladTepes 160]

Lol at all the unconverted Saiga wannabies. Just do the conversion. Lol. Believe me, the trigger group is night & day better after it's been converted.

 

I don't have a 7.62, but I did do this 5.56 all by myself. Not that hard. Seriously.

 

Lol, at you calling people unconverted Saiga wannabies when your Saiga is an AR wannabe if I've ever seen one.

 

Lol at all the unconverted Saiga wannabies. Just do the conversion. Lol. Believe me, the trigger group is night & day better after it's been converted.

 

I don't have a 7.62, but I did do this 5.56 all by myself. Not that hard. Seriously.

 

Lol, at you calling people unconverted Saiga wannabies when your Saiga is an AR wannabe if I've ever seen one.

 

a few things..

 

1) you were SO eager to post that that you had to post it twice?

 

2) MOST of the people on here either get talked out of doing the "half conversion" before they do it.. OR end up doing the "real conversion" after they go with the "half conversion" and it sucks... i have read posts in the 223 section where the tapco "half conversion" has simply fallen apart.. The thing is the few people who actually end up not converting are normally just afraid to do it as it involves basically rebuilding the rifle.. but here's the tricky part.. the fear is unjustified because it is a SIMPLE SIMPLE SIMPLE process... AND creates a MUCH better functioning rifle.. there are PLENTY of stock choices that will allow you to obtain a length you are comfortable with, AND you get a FAR superior fire control group... I have converted both of my Saigas and have ZERO previous "gunsmithing" ability.. So really we are just trying to help..

 

3) Lastly.. that "AR wannabe" Saiga is built well.. it has a lot of nice top shelf parts.. and while it may be slightly too "tacticool" for some people that doesn't make it a poorly done build... You would probably think my AK is an "AR Wannabe" the truth is for what i have into my Saiga I could have easily purchased an AR.. but I find the AK more reliable... so that is why I chose the AK platform and built around that.. no other reason..

Edited April 4, 2009 by DamagedWorld

[imarangemaster 315]

+1 It is VERY easy! A basic conversion is about $100 for tapco fire control group, KVAR stock and pistol grip. 5 US parts.

 

I did my first Saiga conversion left handed (I am right handed, but it was in a sling after surgery two weeks before) in a cold carport, in january, in Illinois!

[jailbait 2]

and i thought i had money into mine. he's got the ultimak lower, krebs beryl rail AND a surefire weapons light! not to mention the eotech and magnifier...

[VladTepes 160]

and i thought i had money into mine. he's got the ultimak lower, krebs beryl rail AND a surefire weapons light! not to mention the eotech and magnifier...

 

 

imo

 

ultimak co-witness > all

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

and i thought i had money into mine. he's got the ultimak lower, krebs beryl rail AND a surefire weapons light! not to mention the eotech and magnifier...

 

 

imo

 

ultimak co-witness > all

 

Of course that's your opinion. That's what's on your rifle.

 

I haven't yet decided between a Russian Kobra MRD or a LaRue AK Irondot. Either way, it'll have to wait till next paycheck, as 2k 7.62 rounds and S-12 conversion parts had priority.

Edited April 5, 2009 by post-apocalyptic

[Chavalito 0]

My Saiga MK-03

[gothchick 0]

Lol at all the unconverted Saiga wannabies. Just do the conversion. Lol. Believe me, the trigger group is night & day better after it's been converted.

 

I don't have a 7.62, but I did do this 5.56 all by myself. Not that hard. Seriously.

 

Lol, at you calling people unconverted Saiga wannabies when your Saiga is an AR wannabe if I've ever seen one.

Lol at the posier... I don't need to be an AR wannabe since I already have one. Now go do your Saiga conversion and stop whining. Back on topic... Lol~

Edited April 15, 2009 by gothchick

[Chavalito 0]

Edited April 13, 2009 by Andrey

[Paladin_Hammer 8]

I really, really, want everyone who just buys the weird pistol grip stock thing with out doing the conversion.... to know, just how much.... I FUCKING HATE YOU!

 

STOP BEING GODDAMN LAZY!

 

...unless there is some retarded law preventing you from finishing the conversion.

 

Other wise quit tryin to be like us and actually DO THE CONVERSION. It's not hard.

 

It only irritates me further that you 'tards post pics of your rifle up here all nasty like that.

I've done a full conversion on my rifle and have a ultimak on mine. But without a threaded barrel, parkerizing, and and least rock solid furniture, THERE'S NO WAY I'M GONNA POST IT.

 

Your half assed rifles are gross!

 

I know I'm not the only one to think this.

 

What the hell? Why does it matter if they got the pistol-grip stock? Did you ever stop to think that MAYBE they like the monte-carlo style of stock to and didn't want to screw with the trigger group?

 

If anyone else out there has a problem with people leaving they're Saiga's with the trigger group in it's original position, your straight up crazy. We get the best of both worlds by leaving it as is. Your rifle isn't any better than someone who didn't do the conversion, there is no difference in performance.

 

Your arrogance is gross.

[gtnichols 51]

Just do the conversion,.. make sure you get the trigger right,..

I have to say, Gothchick,.. your new avatar is making me sick,..GGggghhhghagg

[bigsal 757]

I really, really, want everyone who just buys the weird pistol grip stock thing with out doing the conversion.... to know, just how much.... I FUCKING HATE YOU!

 

STOP BEING GODDAMN LAZY!

 

...unless there is some retarded law preventing you from finishing the conversion.

 

Other wise quit tryin to be like us and actually DO THE CONVERSION. It's not hard.

 

It only irritates me further that you 'tards post pics of your rifle up here all nasty like that.

I've done a full conversion on my rifle and have a ultimak on mine. But without a threaded barrel, parkerizing, and and least rock solid furniture, THERE'S NO WAY I'M GONNA POST IT.

 

Your half assed rifles are gross!

 

I know I'm not the only one to think this.

 

What the hell? Why does it matter if they got the pistol-grip stock? Did you ever stop to think that MAYBE they like the monte-carlo style of stock to and didn't want to screw with the trigger group?

 

If anyone else out there has a problem with people leaving they're Saiga's with the trigger group in it's original position, your straight up crazy. We get the best of both worlds by leaving it as is. Your rifle isn't any better than someone who didn't do the conversion, there is no difference in performance.

 

Your arrogance is gross.

 

Nothing arrogant about that guys post. He is understandably sick of seeing unconverted rifles in the picture posts section... oh wait is this still a picture post section???

[Paladin_Hammer 8]

I really, really, want everyone who just buys the weird pistol grip stock thing with out doing the conversion.... to know, just how much.... I FUCKING HATE YOU!

 

STOP BEING GODDAMN LAZY!

 

...unless there is some retarded law preventing you from finishing the conversion.

 

Other wise quit tryin to be like us and actually DO THE CONVERSION. It's not hard.

 

It only irritates me further that you 'tards post pics of your rifle up here all nasty like that.

I've done a full conversion on my rifle and have a ultimak on mine. But without a threaded barrel, parkerizing, and and least rock solid furniture, THERE'S NO WAY I'M GONNA POST IT.

 

Your half assed rifles are gross!

 

I know I'm not the only one to think this.

 

What the hell? Why does it matter if they got the pistol-grip stock? Did you ever stop to think that MAYBE they like the monte-carlo style of stock to and didn't want to screw with the trigger group?

 

If anyone else out there has a problem with people leaving they're Saiga's with the trigger group in it's original position, your straight up crazy. We get the best of both worlds by leaving it as is. Your rifle isn't any better than someone who didn't do the conversion, there is no difference in performance.

 

Your arrogance is gross.

 

Nothing arrogant about that guys post. He is understandably sick of seeing unconverted rifles in the picture posts section... oh wait is this still a picture post section???

 

Bigsal it's pretty damned arrogant of you and agent to mock people who don't convert their rifles. There is nothing in the rules saying that this thread is for converted rifles only. If you don't like rifles that aren't converted TOUGH. A lot of us don't care about the conversion, and if you do fine, but don't tell others what to do with their own rifles! It's rude, extremely disrespectful, and above all childish.

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

^ I think people on both sides need to chill. There's nothing wrong with a little kidding from people who've done conversions aimed at those who haven't, but keep it lighthearted. Some people either don't want to or can't convert their Saigas and they shouldn't be so heavily mocked for their choice.

 

Converted or not Saigas are great rifles.. and we come to this site to share experiences and information, not attack one another.

[bigsal 757]

Bigsal it's pretty damned arrogant of you and agent to mock people who don't convert their rifles. There is nothing in the rules saying that this thread is for converted rifles only. If you don't like rifles that aren't converted TOUGH. A lot of us don't care about the conversion, and if you do fine, but don't tell others what to do with their own rifles! It's rude, extremely disrespectful, and above all childish.

 

 

Paladin_Hammer: I really enjoy my saiga rifles. I enjoy talking about them in this forum. I even enjoy responding to people like you. Your kinda funny....

[Paladin_Hammer 8]

Bigsal it's pretty damned arrogant of you and agent to mock people who don't convert their rifles. There is nothing in the rules saying that this thread is for converted rifles only. If you don't like rifles that aren't converted TOUGH. A lot of us don't care about the conversion, and if you do fine, but don't tell others what to do with their own rifles! It's rude, extremely disrespectful, and above all childish.

 

 

Paladin_Hammer: I really enjoy my saiga rifles. I enjoy talking about them in this forum. I even enjoy responding to people like you. Your kinda funny....

 

All of us who do not, and probably will not, convert our rifles, would enjoy it if you'd lay off.

[Norty 13]

Lets bring this thread back to the pictures!!!

 

 

[Paladin_Hammer 8]

Lets bring this thread back to the pictures!!!

 

 

Sweet! Looks kind of like an AK-74U... were you shooting for that?

[srajadnya 0]

Well here are my three X-39's all converted up nice... I call them my blonde, brunette and redhead.

 

 

You bastard! You have three and I have none.

 

I like them all

[Norty 13]

Lets bring this thread back to the pictures!!!

 

 

Sweet! Looks kind of like an AK-74U... were you shooting for that?

 

Yea..Thanks!!!!

[Wotan1105 7]

 

 

Just waiting on new FSB and getting that put on, and eventual refinishing.

Edited April 17, 2009 by Wotan1105

[whitetrashrn 74]

My Saiga is in there somewhere. My winter consisted of building some AMD's and a Romy. G. Missing from pic is the WASR 10/63.

[Paladin_Hammer 8]

My Saiga is in there somewhere. My winter consisted of building some AMD's and a Romy. G. Missing from pic is the WASR 10/63.

 

I'll shoot a guess, the second one on the right?

 

BTW, thanks for the pic. I now know where all the AK's have been going .

Edited April 19, 2009 by Paladin_Hammer

[whitetrashrn 74]

I think it is a sickness. If I acn get a kit between $200 and $250 I'll get it. I hope the prices drop to where they need to be.. Winters are too long in PA.