Ammo2Fm 1 Posted December 2, 2006 Report Share Posted December 2, 2006 Who has these if anybody? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
762minigun 1 Posted December 2, 2006 Report Share Posted December 2, 2006 Ruseller Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ammo2Fm 1 Posted December 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted December 2, 2006 Who has these if anybody? I was wanting one this century any us made out there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
762minigun 1 Posted December 2, 2006 Report Share Posted December 2, 2006 I belive the only way, and manufacture is Izhmash. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Molefortress 0 Posted December 3, 2006 Report Share Posted December 3, 2006 What exactly will these magwells do for a Saiga 12? Will I be able to use the new AGP mags with it and how hard will they be to install? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rebelyell76t 0 Posted December 3, 2006 Report Share Posted December 3, 2006 What exactly will these magwells do for a Saiga 12? Will I be able to use the new AGP mags with it and how hard will they be to install? This magwell is an adapter for slip in style mags similar to an AR type mag. No more rock and lock. Faster mag changes. Haven't heard of anyone who actually has or used them yet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JumiKuula 1 Posted December 3, 2006 Report Share Posted December 3, 2006 (edited) What exactly will these magwells do for a Saiga 12? Will I be able to use the new AGP mags with it and how hard will they be to install? Magwell makes life easier and will make most of "regular shotgunners" hate you for advantage you gain by just pushing fresh mag in. ...They even migt put a slippery spot on range just to see you fall down. All mags I've seen can be converted to magwell made. ...Mostly because main idea of design was possibility to use most mags. And video of one stage showing what lack of sleep (2 days straight making parts for AR) and 15-17 years old Winchester shells will make you go through in IPSC match. Didn't affect in score (1st...) but wasn't that fun. Sleepy competitor -JumiKuula aka JamShot Edited December 4, 2006 by JumiKuula Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AegisDei 2 Posted December 3, 2006 Report Share Posted December 3, 2006 (edited) They even migt put a slippery spot on range just to see you fall down. -JumiKuula aka JamShot Haha, that's insane. I'd lose my focus if I fell, you just make it look like shooting from your side is part of the plan. Edited December 3, 2006 by AegisDei Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JumiKuula 1 Posted December 3, 2006 Report Share Posted December 3, 2006 Haha, that's insane. I'd lose my focus if I fell, you just make it look like shooting from your side is part of the plan. Yeah. It would have looked better if all targets were visible from ground level. Complains at the end: "Just great... Not only almost twice faster but also winning fastest run of the stage! Mumbling." Now awake -JumiKuula aka JamShot Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Steph 5 Posted December 3, 2006 Report Share Posted December 3, 2006 What I want to see is a magwell that is simply a "funnel" to provide a larger target to get the magazine into under stress. This would not require any engineering, and would use existing mags. It would be much simpler to produce and install. I don't mind the rock and lock, as my carbine and my rifle all rock and lock, I don't see it as being particularly problematic. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
LdyGunner 0 Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 There is one posted on gunbroker right now with an 8 round magazine, but the starting bid is like $199.00 with $25.00 SH from Russia. I think, at least for me, I'd rather put that towards 10 rounders and just practice the rock and load, but there is one there for sale if it's a must have for you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
762minigun 1 Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 How many does that hold? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 (edited) There is one posted on gunbroker right now with an 8 round magazine, but the starting bid is like $199.00 with $25.00 SH from Russia. I think, at least for me, I'd rather put that towards 10 rounders and just practice the rock and load, but there is one there for sale if it's a must have for you. The guy selling it is known here as Andrei. Some people order from him. The very most get there stuff, it can take over a year though. There is a lot of custom issues he has to deal with that delays thing severly. How many does that hold? I counted 16 reports. 15+1? maybe? Edited December 4, 2006 by Mike Davidson Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1liter 20 Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 Are you telling me out of how ever many millions ( 300 or so ) just in the US. No one has tried this yet? Yeah, I know $200 is alot to part with... Especially when the first S12 I bought was $250 a number of years ago. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
762minigun 1 Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 Are you telling me out of how ever many millions ( 300 or so ) just in the US. No one has tried this yet? Yeah, I know $200 is alot to part with... Especially when the first S12 I bought was $250 a number of years ago. You buy it and send it too me. I will modify one of my S-12's to take it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pedal2alloy 206 Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 As soon as someone gets their hands on one here in the U.S., it can be duplicated and more readily available. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JumiKuula 1 Posted December 4, 2006 Report Share Posted December 4, 2006 How many does that hold? 8 rounder+5 rounder+2 (pad)= 17. It has been enough with 16 round twin this far but soon it needs to be extended. -JumiKuula aka JamShot Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DevL 0 Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 (edited) How many does that hold? 8 rounder+5 rounder+2 (pad)= 17. It has been enough with 16 round twin this far but soon it needs to be extended. -JumiKuula aka JamShot So did you have to use mags specifically made for the magwell or did you modify regular mags to work with the magwell? If you modified regular Saiga 12 mags can you tell us what is needed to modify them? Edited December 5, 2006 by DevL Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JumiKuula 1 Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 So did you have to use mags specifically made for the magwell or did you modify regular mags to work with the magwell? If you modified regular Saiga 12 mags can you tell us what is needed to modify them? Where could I get mags that are ment for magwell model!? I made the magwell to accept regular mags which have front bump removed and rear notch reinforced. Without reinforcements plastic will give up sooner or later. AegisDei asked same questions soon after "Team ShitBird" video and I guess there should be some results by now... -JumiKuula aka JamShot Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AegisDei 2 Posted December 5, 2006 Report Share Posted December 5, 2006 (edited) AegisDei asked same questions soon after "Team ShitBird" video and I guess there should be some results by now... -JumiKuula aka JamShot Still working on it... I was waiting for the 10rnders before I put too much effort into it just in case the magazine dimensions changed at all. But I should have the 10rnders by early next year and will finalize the details shortly after. JamShot is better at this than I am, but I'll figure it out soon: all I'm doing is riding his coat-tails of success and hoping for the best. I did finish up my design for a 3-chamber muzzle break with integrated poly-choke though. If anyone else wants to try to help tackle the mag-well project, feel free to hit me up to bounce some ideas around. Jamshot, what springs do you use in your magazines? I upgraded to increased tensioned Wolff AK springs for my extended 20ga magazines, but I think more would be needed for 15+rnds of 12ga. Not that I'm planning to make 15rnd or 20rnd magazines, but in theory, what springs should I use??? Edited December 5, 2006 by AegisDei Quote Link to post Share on other sites
inparidel 4 Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 What exactly will these magwells do for a Saiga 12? Will I be able to use the new AGP mags with it and how hard will they be to install? Magwell makes life easier and will make most of "regular shotgunners" hate you for advantage you gain by just pushing fresh mag in. ...They even migt put a slippery spot on range just to see you fall down. All mags I've seen can be converted to magwell made. ...Mostly because main idea of design was possibility to use most mags. And video of one stage showing what lack of sleep (2 days straight making parts for AR) and 15-17 years old Winchester shells will make you go through in IPSC match. Didn't affect in score (1st...) but wasn't that fun. Sleepy competitor -JumiKuula aka JamShot JAMSHOT. . .YOU SOB!!! ALWAYS CAN COUNT ON YOU FOR A SUPER COOL COMMENT AND OR ANSWER!! It's been too long since youy visited my club's forum. LAter Jammer! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azkamidaka 26 Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 You know, Halo Mfg. (Quadrail company) has a place for shooters on their site to suggest what parts they want made. If we can convince them that there is a market they might be able to create a magwell on a marketable scale. Or maybe AGP? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Forster 0 Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 I know i would be extremly interested if it was a viable option using AGP mags, even at $200.00 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
762minigun 1 Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 (edited) I know i would be extremly interested if it was a viable option using AGP mags, even at $200.00 I would'nt pay two bills for a magwell adapter. I fail to see how this will work without modifying existing magazines Edited December 6, 2006 by 762minigun Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azkamidaka 26 Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 well thats why I wanted to let them draw up the design Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6500rpm 670 Posted December 6, 2006 Report Share Posted December 6, 2006 $200 is a f'ing joke-somebodys going to come up with one sooner or later and it's not exactly re-inventing the wheel (not that it won't take a little skill and work). The only real question will be manufacturing, milled or squirt? The only other factor will be demand-people will buy multiple mags but will only need as many magwells as they have guns to put them on. Just my 2c Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AegisDei 2 Posted December 7, 2006 Report Share Posted December 7, 2006 $200 is a f'ing joke-somebodys going to come up with one sooner or later and it's not exactly re-inventing the wheel (not that it won't take a little skill and work). The only real question will be manufacturing, milled or squirt? The only other factor will be demand-people will buy multiple mags but will only need as many magwells as they have guns to put them on. Just my 2c Manufacturing is really expensive too. Depending on what machine shop is used, what material is used, what equipment is used, and who does the design/install/testing, a simple thing like a mag-well will cost $200-500 PER prototype. If it doesn't work perfectly from the start, re-designs add up quickly! Once the design is finalized, production costs drop, but the time, money, and headache of perfecting the design is a huge step. So the question then becomes, what is a fair price to charge for a mag-well? You say $200 is a joke, but if it takes 5 proto-types to finalize the design, and it costs $50 bucks per item to machine 100 of them, it'll take an initial investment of ~$7500 to begin to see any profits if they don't sell for $100ea. And that's assuming: you can sell 100 mag-wells; you succeed after only 5 prototypes; you don't mess up any receivers so that there isn't the extra cost of replacing guns; someone else doesn't finish the design before you dump too much money into it; nobody else can take your design and manufacture it for less. It will require modifying magazines to the point that they won't work without the mag-well, so will 100 people want to modify their versatile magazines that will work in any Saiga after just having shelled out ~$70 per magazine? It's not reinventing the wheel, that's true, but it's an expensive and risky endeavor. Everyone wants magazines, often more than one, so it's more profitable. The mag-wells will not be in as high demand, and potential profits are much lower. I'm trying just because I enjoy learning new skills and I enjoy the challenge of following in JamShot's footsteps. But as a strictly commercial endeavor, I doubt it'd be worth the risks. I don't see much chance for profits, I just want a badass gun! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
6500rpm 670 Posted December 7, 2006 Report Share Posted December 7, 2006 (edited) Didn't say it wouldn't be cool, or that I wouldn't want one.....more or less implied that I'm a tight ass and $200 seems a bit steep for something that's not intended to be a one off. AgeisDei, you know as well as I do that with the talant that's on the board, if we had both motivation and time it would be a done deal. AGP took the risk and it looks to have been a good move, I just don't know what the demand vs necessity for a magwell at that price would be. I'm not sure if it's the price, or the fact that it's russeller, but the factory set up's he has don't look to be flying off the shelves any time soon......makes one think. AGP or possibly FBMG seem to be the two top contenders to pull off mass production at this point. My only othe concern would be how and if it would effect a LRBHO? Jamshot and his buds seem to be doing just fine with their rigs, but once again, there seems to be a lot of talent and dedication in that group. I saw a lot of growth and change in paintball over the years, this s12 thing is just starting to get rolling, if johnny law doesn't jack things up just watch where it goes in a few more years as people get interested. Edited December 7, 2006 by 6500rpm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JumiKuula 1 Posted December 7, 2006 Report Share Posted December 7, 2006 Jamshot, what springs do you use in your magazines? I upgraded to increased tensioned Wolff AK springs for my extended 20ga magazines, but I think more would be needed for 15+rnds of 12ga. Not that I'm planning to make 15rnd or 20rnd magazines, but in theory, what springs should I use??? 8rounder's spring goes fine up to 12. From 13 and up I've connected 8 and 1/2 of 5rounder's spring. If only somebody started makind Bren-style leaf-springs for Saiga. JAMSHOT. . .YOU SOB!!! ALWAYS CAN COUNT ON YOU FOR A SUPER COOL COMMENT AND OR ANSWER!! It's been too long since youy visited my club's forum. You just think so because I haven't written anything out of line for a while. -JumiKuula aka JamShot Quote Link to post Share on other sites
AegisDei 2 Posted December 7, 2006 Report Share Posted December 7, 2006 (edited) Didn't say it wouldn't be cool, or that I wouldn't want one.....more or less implied that I'm a tight ass and $200 seems a bit steep for something that's not intended to be a one off. I'm not sure if it's the price, or the fact that it's russeller, but the factory set up's he has don't look to be flying off the shelves any time soon...... Haha, I agree. $200 is a lot. That's 1/2 the price of the gun! For a simple accessory, I agree that $200 ain't worth it. Otherwise I'd have one already. AegisDei, you know as well as I do that with the talant that's on the board, if we had both motivation and time it would be a done deal. AGP took the risk and it looks to have been a good move, I just don't know what the demand vs necessity for a magwell at that price would be. Definitely so. I'm really surprised it's not already been done. Between FMBG, AGP, Halo, Tony, Cobra, Dinzag, Wakal, Jeric, and others I've not specifically mentioned, I thought it would be out by now. Though, I imagine, designers were waiting for the new magazines. Now that they're here, I bet by summer we'll have mag-wells available at a fraction of the cost of the Russian ones. My only othe concern would be how and if it would effect a LRBHO? From my understanding, the only problem that would interfere with the LRBHO is attachment of the magwell to the receiver. With the LRBHO installed it limits the options for where rivets or screws can go, but that's not a major problem. If worse comes to worse, set-screws on the outside of the receiver may be a last-ditch option, but I'm sure there's other, more permanent options that'll work too. Edited December 7, 2006 by AegisDei Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.