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308 vs M1 Garand


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I've spent the last 3 or 4 hours reading past posts and I really love this board.

I fell in love with a SAIGA other day at LGS which has really upset my

plans to hand select a field -rade M1 Garand for $475 from over a hundred

to choose from in the first week of Jan.

 

I'd like a removable clip but dont ever think I will need more than

6 or 8 rounds.... I will do some occasional deer hunting and plinking

but I really want to own a rifle that has character and will hold

its value, be reliable, and always be able to get repair parts.

 

I dont thing there is much difference between ballistics of 30-06 and

308 so that is not really a big deal to me.

 

What I am most worried about is me spending a bunch of money on

extras and add ons for the SAIGA and wind up having more money

tied up than I would have the M1-Garand

 

Strangely, my other option was to buy a cheap SKS for $119 at LGS

and shoot 762x39 . Of course SAIGA has that covered nicely also

for about double the money.

 

What ever I get I will be adding a 1.5 x 5 power scope to it as those

are my favorites.

 

This will probably be the only centerfire I will ever own as I shoot

a lot of field target competition in air rifle and 22 LR.

 

I only mention these things as I dont aspire to playing rambo commando

with huge clips but I do think a folding stock for practical compact storage is

neat as hell.

 

I might just waste my whole day on this site ! thanks again for all

the great info and comments.

 

Scott

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Get the Garand. It's a piece of World History. They won't be available forever.

 

I received my CMP Field Grade Garand in August. I fell in love with shooting it immediately. The aperture sight is far superior to the AK's sights.

 

I bought the Saiga because I was in the market for a 7.62x51 battle rifle. I went to the gun shop looking for a FAL (because I didn't want to put thousands upon thousands of rounds through my Garand), and ended up leaving with the Saiga.

 

The Saiga is my beater rifle now. I still practice a lot with my Garand, and it is still my favorite rifle. I still shoot it better than I shoot the Saiga. And in a zombie invasion, I'd prefer my Garand and a few bandoliers of ammo.

 

The Garand's value will only increase. The Saiga will stay about the same (unless we're hit with another AWB).

 

I want another Garand. This time a Rack Grade, to rebarrel in .308. That will become my new practice rifle, and the Saiga will probably get more safe-duty after that.

 

Simply put, the M1 Garand is the rifle to own. Every American should own at least one.

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If you are only going to buy one centerfire, get the Garand. I think Saigas are great and awesome values for the money but you can't replace owning a piece of American steel and wood that is so directly connected to one of the pivitol events of world history, not to mention handing it down to your children or grandchildren. Its a no brainer IMO.

 

Dang I write slow ;) lazlong beat me to it!

Edited by OpFlash
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At the present time, there seems to be a better supply of higher quality surplus ammo for the 30-06. Even if you do your own reloading, there always seems to be a better stream of pulled bullets for the 30-06 as well.

 

My gut feel is that the saiga will not be around as long in today's political environment as the garand (and garands are easier to find in the private sale market). For a 1 gun situation, I'd choose the saiga 308 with about 6 of the newly available hi cap mags. That said, I need to get myself a garand soon...

 

$350-$400 for Saiga 308 delivered, plus another $300+ for hi cap mags is still a better deal than any of its late model battle rifle competition, except maybe for the garand itself, Hmmm - you really do have some thinking to do. After spending another $130 to convert the saiga back to its intended PG configuration, you're in for about $750 or so.

 

Or...

 

$400 for a quality non us issue (probably greek) garand plus about $50 for strip clips and $250 for 500-1000 rounds and you're good to go for the same price as the saiga before ammo.

 

Or.. if you'd rather save the extra $'s for a side arm as well

 

$140 for unissued m59-66, $100 for 1000 rounds of ammo $15 for stripper clips (not in the same class as the saiga or garand, but something else to think about).

 

All three are highly reliable and good out to the 200 yards that you're likely to see as a practical range anywhere other than out here in flyover country. On the bright side, it's hard to go wrong.

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If you really want a shooter then get the Saiga. Its a lot easier to scope like you want to. Both are a lot of fun to shoot but putting a scope on the top feed M1 is a pain. I think there might be a forward mount for a scout type scope and that would make a nice rig but you can bet it will be expensive. I think we are going to see another AWB now that the Dems are in power. May not happen real soon but consider that Bush said he would sign it if it came to his desk. And also that the current laws are due to GB the First.

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The Saiga is NEW. The CMP Garrand will need work. The price of a good Garrand will get you an S-.308 AND an S-.30-06. With plenty of ammo money left over.

I bought my S-.308 because the Garrand was too $$$$$$.

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if you learn to shoot ,, you will not need a scope or other optic. buy the garand.. it is a riflemans rifle. you will also of course be able to use it in cmp competitions... and buy ammo from cmp club... dont get me wrong i own 3 to 10 of every thing mentioned in this thread but part are a plenty for the garand.. and once you learn to shoot a garand anything some one can engage with a scope yo can engage with a garand. hell just buy em all , i did.if you dont want the cmp rifle le tme know i'll take another one , just add it to the stack.

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I reason I said get the Garand is because CMP is starting to run low on them. One of my friends told me that he had called CMP and as of now they are out of service grades Garands and not sure if there will be any more. If CMP starts to dry up on Garands watch the prices sky rocket. Look at what has happened to the prices of the M1 carbine after CMP ran out.

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if you learn to shoot ,, you will not need a scope or other optic. buy the garand.. it is a riflemans rifle. you will also of course be able to use it in cmp competitions... and buy ammo from cmp club... dont get me wrong i own 3 to 10 of every thing mentioned in this thread but part are a plenty for the garand.. and once you learn to shoot a garand anything some one can engage with a scope yo can engage with a garand. hell just buy em all , i did.if you dont want the cmp rifle le tme know i'll take another one , just add it to the stack.

 

 

Eyes get old. I just can't see as well as I used too and makes shooting more chore than fun. I have friends that have these funny little suction cupped apertures stuck to their glasses and such and that's just not for me. Optics have made shooting fun for me again. Especially the red dots.

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how close to kc are you.. we have 2 major gun shows by MISOURI VALLEY COLLECTORS ASSOCIATION. JAN AND JULY. this is primarily a military show probably one of the biggest number of garands and others you'll ever see next to teh GARAND COLLECTORS ASSOCIATION SHOW which travels... mvca show is a national show,, the members compete with displays of various collections , i've seen everthing from garands and 03a3's to lugers, . as a dealer this is the show i wait for to get the things i need for my personal stuff. if you can checkit out.. hope this helps. gca show is a great one also.... oh ya, nra show is in st.louis mo this april,, good one to catch if you can...

Edited by lsgs
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Getcha the Garand first. You say you don't want more than one centerfire rifle but you'll probably get more if you're like everyone else. They are really addictive.

 

The Garand will make you happy as-is and with its aperture sights, you really dont' need glass - and I certainly hope you're not contemplating drilling and tapping the receiver!

 

If you really really want to use optics, then by all means get the Siaga.

 

O.S.O.K. AKA Rambo Commando :)

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I have two rifles: a Saiga 308 and a CMP Garand. I took both to the range today. Both are amazingly fun to shoot. But I'd have to say if I was only going to have one rifle, it would be the Garand. There's just something about the history, the kick of that 30-06, and the fact that it finds its target every time (I'm sure others will argue that the Saiga 308 is just as accurate, but I haven't found that to be the case for me). Don't worry about the Garand needing any work. I got one of the last CMP service grade Garands from their most recent batch (Greek issue). All I did was clean it and lube it (use grease, not oil!) and it functions flawlessly and feels like a brand new rifle. Hopefully they'll have more available soon. I would recommend a service grade or a field grade. I previously had a rack grade Garand and the stock was so worn that the trigger group was sitting in there really loose. Still, even a problem like that on a Garand is a relatively easy fix.

I thought I was going to enjoy the Saiga more than the Garand since I have the hi-cap mags. And while blasting away 20 rounds at a time is great, there's just something about the Garand that the Saiga can't touch.

 

-chris

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B)-->

QUOTE(G O B @ Dec 22 2006, 06:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The Saiga is NEW. The CMP Garrand will need work. The price of a good Garrand will get you an S-.308 AND an S-.30-06. With plenty of ammo money left over.

I bought my S-.308 because the Garrand was too $$$$$$.

 

I want to know where I can get a Saiga .308 and a Saiga .30-06 for $425.

 

Let's compare. I paid $425 for the Garand, ~$10 for notary fees for the paperwork, and shipping was ~$25 shipped to my door.

 

I paid nearly $400 for my Saiga, but I'll be fair and say the Saiga costs $330. Then there's the stock, pistol grip, and trigger group. There's another $85 minimum. Then magazines are about $35-$40 each. You have to have at least a couple spare mags, even if they're just the 8-round mags. Then there's the cost of ammo. .308 surplus has gone through the roof, but I can still buy a thousand rounds of Lake City from CMP for a very good price. There's also the Greek and the Korean (corrosive) available. And the Korean can be purchased already loaded in en bloc clips, in the original ammo cans. So there's no need to buy extra clips. I have hundreds of them now.

 

My field grade needed zero work. The stock is tight, the internals are like new, and even with a worn (Field Grade) barrel, I can fire tighter groups from prone with the Garand than I can from a bench rest with the Saiga. The Garand has better balance and a far superior trigger than even the G2 in an AK (I have a few AK's with G2's), I won't even bother comparing it to the stock Saiga .308's trigger. Parts are readily available for the Garand, and they are very easy to replace. Worst case, I shoot the barrel out and have to replace it. A couple hundred bucks and it has a brand new barrel.

 

I think I'll be able to shoot the Saiga as well as the Garand once I've done the PG conversion with the RSA trigger, but then I'm looking at having substantially more money in the Saiga than I have in the Garand. Especially when you consider the cost of magazines for the Saiga.

 

Some people like spending a lot of money on their Garands, but mine is perfect as it is.

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I've spent the last 3 or 4 hours reading past posts and I really love this board.

I fell in love with a SAIGA other day at LGS which has really upset my

plans to hand select a field -rade M1 Garand for $475 from over a hundred

to choose from in the first week of Jan.

 

I'd like a removable clip but dont ever think I will need more than

6 or 8 rounds.... I will do some occasional deer hunting and plinking

but I really want to own a rifle that has character and will hold

its value, be reliable, and always be able to get repair parts.

 

I dont thing there is much difference between ballistics of 30-06 and

308 so that is not really a big deal to me.

 

What I am most worried about is me spending a bunch of money on

extras and add ons for the SAIGA and wind up having more money

tied up than I would have the M1-Garand

 

Strangely, my other option was to buy a cheap SKS for $119 at LGS

and shoot 762x39 . Of course SAIGA has that covered nicely also

for about double the money.

 

What ever I get I will be adding a 1.5 x 5 power scope to it as those

are my favorites.

 

This will probably be the only centerfire I will ever own as I shoot

a lot of field target competition in air rifle and 22 LR.

 

I only mention these things as I dont aspire to playing rambo commando

with huge clips but I do think a folding stock for practical compact storage is

neat as hell.

 

I might just waste my whole day on this site ! thanks again for all

the great info and comments.

 

Scott

 

Gotta get the Garand. So many of us are big into the history side of guns/firearms, from that point of veiw the Garand purchase is a no-brainer.

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What is the throat erosion on that $475 Garrrand? What about the headspace?. I want a Garrand too, always have. BUT Good one's are $1,200. I will probably end up with one when I find one for $500 or less, but the Saiga is NEW. The throat erosion is 0. And with a chrome chamber and bore will stay that way for a LONG time. The headspace is right on, and all FCG parts, gas system parts, and bolt group parts are NEW. The Saiga-.308 has 20rd. mags available. The Garrand, with it,s top feed 8rd clips is faster. and easier to load when shooting from the prone ,or at a table or berm. Maybe we all need both??

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My next rifle will be an M1 Garand. According to the CMP web site, the different grades of rifles have different amounts of throat & muzzle erosion:

 

Service Grade - $550 (Good to Very Good condition) (Sold out BTW)

Muzzle - less than 3

Throat - less than 5

 

Field Grade - $425 (Fair to Good condition)

Muzzle - greater than 3

Throat - less than 5

 

Rack Grade - $395 (Poor to Fair condition)

Muzzle - greater than 3

Throat - 5 or greater

 

Nothing was mentioned about headspacing.

 

For what it's worth, I saw a few M1's at the Dalton Ga gun show last November that looked to be Rack Grade & the seller wanted $800 to $900 each. (I'll save a little more money up & go over to CMP in Anniston Alabama in a month or so to get a rifle & ammo. All my paperwork is on file already.)

 

If I have to do any work on the rifle, all I have to say is Thank God for AGI & their instructional DVDs.

Edited by Hylndr
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get the Garand. the price will shoot up as soon as they are sold out. That is a piece of history, associated with a grand victory.

 

Saigas on the other hand will not increase much in value, they are just shooter guns. Not that they are not good, but not as good a choice as a Garand. Especially for somebody who seldom actually shoot centerfire semi-auto.

 

Even for wall-hanger purpose the Garand is a better choice......

 

Plus, when the next gun ban (2009 ?) comes around, the AK based "evil" guns will probably all require registration and can no longer change hands , not sellable = no market value = bad investment.... Mean while the Garand being 100% politically correct and patriotic (unlike the terrorist-contaminated AK design), there will never be a ban on Garands. no ban = good investment option. :devil:

 

 

M1 Garand is the way to go :smoke:

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First CMP headspaces all their rifles. If they don't headspace correctly they become parts. If you enjoy history, get a garand. They will not hold their value, they increase. You could sell it the day it comes and make money.

Its real easy to stick alot of money into a saiga. If you must have a scope get the saiga. Go to a gun show and look at and handle both. You are really comparing apples to oranges here. If I had to choose, hands down the garand.

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B)-->

QUOTE(G O B @ Jan 1 2007, 01:24 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
What is the throat erosion on that $475 Garrrand? What about the headspace?. I want a Garrand too, always have. BUT Good one's are $1,200. I will probably end up with one when I find one for $500 or less, but the Saiga is NEW. The throat erosion is 0. And with a chrome chamber and bore will stay that way for a LONG time. The headspace is right on, and all FCG parts, gas system parts, and bolt group parts are NEW. The Saiga-.308 has 20rd. mags available. The Garrand, with it,s top feed 8rd clips is faster. and easier to load when shooting from the prone ,or at a table or berm. Maybe we all need both??

 

As Hunter stated, CMP checks headspace and test fires all the rifles before they sell them.

 

I didn't personally check throat erosion or muzzle wear. The range test was good enough for me. <2-moa with cheap Korean surplus ammo made me a believer.

 

When I wear out the barrel, there are plenty of new barrels available at a reasonable price, and installing them isn't rocket science. I could buy the tools to do the job for what I'd pay a 'smith to do it for me.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like my Saiga .308, but my Garand is a much better shooter. Better sights (don't need a scope), better stock, better trigger, etc.

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