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10 Rounds = Too Much?


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I was posting on another gun forum in a thread where the poster was asking for input on what kind of shotgun to get for home defense. Naturally I mentioned a Saiga-12 with 10 round magazines.

 

One guy replied that 10 rounds was too much - "if 5 or 6 rounds of 00 buck doesn't stop the threat..." and all that.

 

It seems funny to me that other gun people will look at 10 rounds of 12 gauge and say it's too much but 30 rounds of 5.56, 7.62X39 or 20 rounds of .308 is OK. If this reaction isn't coming from either ignorance or "firepower envy" I don't know what it is.

 

The way I see it my Saiga-12 with a couple extra 10 round mags is probably a better in-house weapon than my class-3 MAC-10 in 45 ACP. Round for round it has a lot more power and even with the 3-to-1 ammo advantage the better control of round placement of the semi-auto just makes for a better gun up close.

 

In the few cases where I had to draw a weapon and face criminals in the act I found that the nastier the weapon I drew the quicker they went into "cease and desist" mode.

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I was posting on another gun forum in a thread where the poster was asking for input on what kind of shotgun to get for home defense. Naturally I mentioned a Saiga-12 with 10 round magazines.

 

One guy replied that 10 rounds was too much - "if 5 or 6 rounds of 00 buck doesn't stop the threat..." and all that.

 

It seems funny to me that other gun people will look at 10 rounds of 12 gauge and say it's too much but 30 rounds of 5.56, 7.62X39 or 20 rounds of .308 is OK. If this reaction isn't coming from either ignorance or "firepower envy" I don't know what it is.

 

The way I see it my Saiga-12 with a couple extra 10 round mags is probably a better in-house weapon than my class-3 MAC-10 in 45 ACP. Round for round it has a lot more power and even with the 3-to-1 ammo advantage the better control of round placement of the semi-auto just makes for a better gun up close.

 

In the few cases where I had to draw a weapon and face criminals in the act I found that the nastier the weapon I drew the quicker they went into "cease and desist" mode.

 

 

Hah ahahha hah "cease and desist" Nothing makes people back down like a big bore in their face.

 

Well I think 10 rds is just right. Infact the local Swat Teams all have Remington Semi-Autos with the tube extentions. 8+ 1 or something like that.

 

10 rd sof 12 are great for clays!!!!!!

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.....no way to have too much ammo on you................

 

(except.....to quote a sigline of another forum member here)........unless you're swimming a river or you're on fire.

 

Sure, one or two in most cases will be enough.......but ain't it sweet to have the other 8 or 9 ???????, just because......????

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It reminds me of some of the retired officers that I used to work with. They were convinced there was no need to have more than the ammo in their wheelguns. Tell that to the officers at the Miami shootout. Times have changed and the more ammo you have at your disposal no matter what you use for defense is the best policy!

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When i'm away and the wife is home alone, I will feel more secure to have the 10rd's of an s12 than say the 4rd's out of the mossberg. Just because she's not as comfortable with firearms as I am. The first cardinal rule I taught her, and this holds true for 4 rounds or 10 rounds, is keep firing until the noise stops :killer:

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How times change... When I started in the cop biz, we carried .357s and 2 speedloaders = 18 rounds. The few cops who carried 3 or 4 speedloaders were considered paranoid. Now I carry a .40 S&W with 18 in it, and 2 - 17 round mags, and a few more in the squad.

The fact is, in most gun situations, the mere appearance of a firearm stops the altercation, so you don't need ammo at all! If shots are fired, in the majority of shootouts, most of the rounds will miss; but any round of any type hitting the assailant will stop their attack in most cases.

So how many rounds do you need? Enough that you can give away a few as cover fire if need be, engage multiple assailants knowing that under the stress of the attack and the dynamics of combat even a trained combat shooter is going to miss with quite a few rounds; and still have eough to hit each assailant with multiple incapacitating fire so that they immediately are unable to move one finger, 'cause if they can, they can kill you right back.

That's a hell of alot of rounds. That's why 10 isn't enough, you need detachable mags with a quick 10 more, and 10 after that; oh, and another 10. (and...)

Who's to say that in the next few years we won't have double-digit inflation and unemployment, and roving bands of meth-cranked slime who travel about knocking over houses for the cash, food, gas, sex, and mayhem they can grab? 5 or 6 rounds is folly.

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The way I look at it - if I end up in a home defense situation with more than one armed BG and both decide to open up I may have to put down suppressing fire to manuver to better cover. Not only would a Saiga with ten rounds be a good tool for that task but I would have less to worry about downrange than I would if I used a semi-auto battle rifle or carbine in the same situation.

 

In Vietnam it was not uncommon for experienced point men to carry a 12 gauge because they were known to be effective ambush busters. I can only imagine how many of these would have ended up there if they had been available back then (assuming domestic production of course!).

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"The siaga 12 with a 8 or 10 round mag is simply the most devastating CQB weapon that I know of. With the new 10 rounders or modified 20 round drum, it is an unstoppable killing machine, capable of pulling raids, suppressive fire, destroying doors, equipment, vehicles, and parked light aircraft. "

 

-anonymous Recon marine in Najaf.

 

 

good friend of mine emailed me this after we hooked him up with some gear for the sandbox trip. They are in Tikrit, Najaf, and Fallujah. There are only 7 S12's in the war right now, and they are probably the most sought after weapons out there. It is my understanding they were all brought in-country using less than official means. I would Imagine the SEALS have a few as well.

 

They truely sad part of all this is the fact that, because it is not a "defense industry" connected weapons system, it will NEVER see issue, even though it is the BEST gear for the job, and would probably save lives. The fact is the defense procurement guys have to be given so many bribes, blowjobs and coke before they even look at a new weapon, it boggles the mind. check out the articles on the new "dragonskin" armor offered by pinnacle industries. www.defensereview.com

 

sorry..went off on a rant there. But the above posters are spot on. it IS the best CQB weapon, hands down. wish the cops and soldiers had better acsess to it.

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Yeah I always hear some smartass say that you don't need any more rounds then what HE has in his gun. This rationale is stupid. Why don't I just use a New England Pardner (Single shot-break-barrel) for home defense. Hey, you shouldn't need more than one, if you're a good shot.

 

Bullshit!! :chris:

 

Bravo, I love it when you talk about what we should have over there! God, an AR-10 or S-308, S-12 (shorty) and a 1911. I could make plenty of room in my heli for that load out!!!!!!

Edited by shaneman153a
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hey there Shaneman! good to hear from ya. Someday I'm gonna write a book on all this shit, swear to god..we have soooo many unauthorized weapons being used over there right now, it's crazy..I hear the Stalkers are carrying 45's now, and there have been a few pics of AKM's in some Helo's as well...real good piece of gear to have on ya if you get burned down in Najaf, etc... MUCH better than the M9 the flyboys are issued..

 

You still in the sand over there?

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You can never be too rich, too thin or too well armed. A gun with no ammo is pretty much useless. I got the nicknane " bullets Bob " because I carried 2 speedloaders, 6 rounds in belt loops and 2 speed strips for my revolver. Later we switched to the Glock 17 and I carried 2 extra 19 shot mags and a G26 as backup.

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just like the famous Bill Ruger had said, "no honest man shall need more than 10 rounds in his gun!!" (that was how he proposed the last magazine capacity ban to President Bill Clint, I would guess...) :devil:

 

Therefore a Saiga-12 with a 10rd magazine (plus one in the chamber, it now holds 11rds) holds too many rounds for a honest man! Not a good thing...... :cryss:

 

By the way, are 20rd drums civilian legal?

 

I am all for hi-caps, as long as they are reliable :smoke:

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