Bigfoot Wallace 0 Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 I was thinking that with the national guard being used as a true military force overseas We need a home guard similar to the one the brits had during wwII. The home guard would be open to all citiizens over the age of 18 but with no upper age limits. It would have an shortened training on basic firearm handling and disaster/ terrorism response. The home guard would be prohibited by law from being deployed overseas. It could be used for security for future terror attacks and general national guard duties that are left undone by current deployments. Each state would be allowed a certain number based on threats, security importance and population. The post vietnam pentagon policy of using reserves and the guard to give citizens a connection to a conflict has left us unprepared for future attacks/problems. Just a thought. Let me know what you think. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SaltPeter 6 Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 So what type of weapons would they be allowed? And who buys and owns them, the gov or the people? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bigfoot Wallace 0 Posted July 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 preferably we get surplus m-16 and m-4 rifles. the group would be government sponsered. in truth we would probaly have semi autos with a few autos. I am talking about a true militia. Work with the government but go home everynight. If that means we buy our own weapons then so be it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Siagalova 0 Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 that's very creative! Nice, and in true fashion, a truely american thought and ingenuity! I think it should be state sanctioned, not federal! if possible. I could back somethin' like that. Most states right now are in some kinda fin. trouble - it might have to wait a while. kinda like the volunteer fire department! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bigfoot Wallace 0 Posted July 21, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 (edited) state not fed sanctioned would be the best way to go. The states over extended themselves prior to 9-11 and are paying for it now. If it is a state organization we would most likely be buying our own weapons. Just like a volunteer fire dept.!!!! thanks for the compliment! Edited July 21, 2004 by Bigfoot Wallace Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 Perhaps it would be best for the federal government to stop using the guardsmen interchangably with active duty soldiers, instead of creating a roaming militia of wanna-be soldiers to replace them. The state national guard is the "citizen-soldier" you describe. I beleive an untrained, undisciplined group in their place would turn out like the guardsmen reflected on Rambo: First Blood....and our hometowns don't need that sort of recklessness. If you want to be one of the "home guard" you describe, free of federal control, carrying your own weapons, join a militia that doesn't have plans on overthrowing the fed gov. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Siagalova 0 Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 (edited) I'm already armed!!! I personally think each state should have an organization ready anyway - I think it's the smartest thing we could do! It just keeps everybody honest, and protects all those IN THERE BEST INTEREST! it's just smart buisiness, like the Minute men from days past...........cool stuff! I'm kinda with ky though - there'd need to be some real orginization!!!! Edited July 21, 2004 by Siagalova Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 I think you are right, a state organization to protect its own is a good idea, that's why there was a militia back then and the guard today. But the guard keeps getting deployed which is BS! Are they going to deploy the Coast Guard next to protect the coasts of other countries we occupy illegally?!?! I am armed as well, and I couldn't accept a group of ratty militia nuts as a replacement for protecting those around me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 well i have something like that going on here. I have about 25 locals that I know, all of us own firearms, and we have a meeting point if there is ever a problem in our area. A few of us that can afford to have a stockpile of medical supplies, ammunition, and food. We all agreed to keep a few hundred rounds of like ammo in reserve, also, so that we all have something common to reload with, if (i hope NOT) the time does come where the police, military, and other gov. agencies are not enough to protect our homes and families. see here where I live, we HAVE had arabs here shooting up a local college town before 9/11 happened, and 1/2 of the hijackers on 9/11 lived in my area. So we here will let the police and military take care of what they have to do, and if the time comes, we all here have taken steps to protect our OWN asses. We arent anti-govt. we arent subversives, just a bunch of good ole boys with guns that arent going to take these ppl in our neighborhoods, putting people at risk. We already dealt with a drug gang problem a friend of ours was having in his immediate area. You should see how they react to eight guys with big guns walking right up to them in the middle of the night, shaking thier hands, asking them politely to please leave the area for good...or else. The cops couldnt stop them, but we sure did. I would guess that type of action wont always work, but it did for us. Last I heard the same gang was about 20 miles from here shooting each other, and thier competition, and a few were in jail for robbery or murder. good riddance, cause it woulda happened in my buddy's back yard if WE hadnt have done what we did. I dont think these 3rd world people blowing each other up, shooting whoever isnt like them, (like they are so special), understand who they really are dealing with. Lets hope they figure it out soon. an organised militia has nothing to do with the government, in a lot of people's minds as well as my own. Here is to being truely free, and lets hope many more will enjoy the one true right to all men....freedom. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Siagalova 0 Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 (edited) Everybody's got this weird waco type image of a militia?!? If you ask me it's kinda the heart of amaricana. Whatch how nervious it makes people when you get an organized group together - especially one with arms?!? what the hell's that about? I think it's questionable to say the least. Why couldn't we have a volunteer group, just kinda with a plan in mind - JUST LIKE WHAT BVAMP'S DECRIBING. If you don't trust your neighbor, why live next to him! or get to know him. even if he is an enemy to you, better to have him under your thumb. this would all take a little trust - not too many people are willling to give. too friggin' bad! Ps- Id also like ay that I'm not anti-federally, or part of any anti-gov.group. I just don't trust them, and think they've just drifted away from the real reason they've been put in charge. I get heated when some restriction goes into place without asking me! the beer cigarette tax is a prime example. don't mess with a man's beer!!!!!!!!! especially without askin'.(Like forest gump say's: that's all I goin' to say 'bout that!). 'sides we make a lot of killer beers 'round here, if you don't make them yourself, there outragiously priced. sucks! Edited July 21, 2004 by Siagalova Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 We ARE the militia. That is exactly what the 2nd. ammendment is all about. When we are invaded or there is civil disorder that threatens 'the people' it is incumbant to form "a well regulated militia". This is why we have the "right to keep and bear arms"- the right imply's the duty. This does not mean a bunch of assholes running around half baked- It means sober well disciplined(self disciplined if no other authority exists) citizens in support of the legitimate local elected authority. If there are no legitimate authorities then we must elect our own untill order is restored and proper civilian authorities can be elected. No one has even concidered invading america since 1812 when we handed england their asses on a shingle for the second time. It is going on 200 years since it has been necessary-but make no mistake most of us are the same bunch of ornery rabble that will form"volunteer companys" in about a half a second and go take care of buisness.The japanese knew this-they said that invading america would be"stepping into a quagmire". G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Siagalova 0 Posted July 21, 2004 Report Share Posted July 21, 2004 Here, here GOB! I'll drink to that! What a bunch of blow hards we are! I'm proud to be called one! I love this $hit! it's great! true americans - I don't care what euopeans say about us (and Kate Hudson), we are loud and crude,I agree. what are lookin' at!!!!!!!!!!!Punk! I'd love to go over to paris and ask for all the friggin' ice, Ketsup - they got, all day long! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bigfoot Wallace 0 Posted July 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 Th idea of being affiliated with a government is two fold: funding and training not bunch of wannabes! A liberal supreme court could not take our guns away then Could they? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 GOB pointed out a good fact, we haven't been invaded by another country in a long time. If someone occupied us, the country with the most privately owned guns, then it would be a mess to contain the population....even worse than us trying to contain the Iraqis. I think we can all agree with that. Having a gun around for protection in an emergency is just good preparedness, but having an organized group of neighborhood police seems a little overboard at this time. I just don't feel like we are in any danger of being invaded....which is much different than random criminal acts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bigfoot Wallace 0 Posted July 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 We need something like this during riots, NBC attacks and natural disasters. We are not talking about light infantry only but medics, first responders(ok second), health professionals, truck drivers etc... I t would be a way to help the country when the next attack occurs and for the subsequent attacks after that. No country is really dumb enough to invade us. A group like this would only be a starting place if an invasion occurred anyway. It is a chance to help out in the US while our regular trooops and guard units are overseas. A lot of people who could/want to help out are excluded because they are just too damn old. That does not mean they are not willing to help or they are not patriots. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 the LA riots is when we started our little group. the nights that we waited up in the hills overlooking the city here waiting for people to go nuts, it was only 5 of us. After 9/11, everyone brought a friend to our next meeting. we only get together after something bad happens in the area, or if terror threat levels are increased, to discuss changes, who has what for supplies, and where we can all meet. Basically its a bunch of friends having a barbeque, talking about trouble in the area, having a few beers, shooting some targets or hunting. We arent some bunch of wackos, just concerned upstanding citizens that arent confindent that the police, govt, and such is enough to protect US. We arent all in the same towns, but we all live in the general vicinity of each other. two of the guys in our group are former special forces, one is a retired marine officer, as well as a county sherriff and federal guard, so i dont know why you guys would say that we are a bunch of wanna-bes. i am SURE that you all have locals there that would meet once a month that DO have proper training. I had a thought though. Our group here is more like an armed neighborhood watch, if I were to describe it. I would think, that if you contacted your local neighborhood watch, and got out of them how they operate and such, (they dont get funding really), that that might be a good thing to model local groups after. I know that where I live, we live near nuclear powerplants, we live within range of fallout if NYC got hit, and we also live in the zone where every liberal idiot in the city is fleeing to out of fear of what will happen next, driving up my land prices, my taxes, my bills, pollution, population, etc etc etc. If something DOES happen major again, we already discussed it, and expect a LOT of scared people to be running up our way. It is funny, because most of us in my area are armed, but almost none of these long islanders/city folk are anti-gun. Go figure right? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 Bvamp- A neighborhood watch is about what the founding fathers had in mind. But the they seemed to believe that the more people who were armed and available, the less the chance that armed intervention would be necessary! (Those old timers were right about just about everything else,I think they got this one right too.) The "people" were to have"a servicable rifle or musket in a standard callibre,2 spare flints and powder and ball in a kit with provisions for ready muster". There are many instances of militias forming to meet the need -al queida found that out on an airplane over pennsylvania! It is just a travesty that those hero's were armed only with courage,they had no weopons (in the name of safety ). A job well done,and I will be sure to teach their story to my grandchildren,"let's roll" is the true essence of the american spirit. G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gaddis 1,689 Posted July 22, 2004 Report Share Posted July 22, 2004 GOB pointed out a good fact, we haven't been invaded by another country in a long time. Hmm, I guess all those "sleeping" terrorist cells wouldn't be considered an invasion of sorts, eh? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bone 0 Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 this was part of someones post i believe on this site a while back, it caught my attention (a partial quote from some suggestive document we have)so i saved it for just such an occasion, cant remember who to give credit to but here it is---->>> "A WELL REGULATED MILITIA, BEING NECESSARY TO THE SECURITY OF A FREE STATE, THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" it says nothing about hunting, nothing about national guard was no such thing as national guard when the document was released just militia. title 10>subtitle A> Part 1>chapter 13>sec 311 Sec. 311. - Militia: composition and classes (a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become citizens of the United States Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 GOB: exactly what I was getting to..... Gaddis: no, it would be considered one to the people I know, even though you were being sarcastic. we are always watching for them here now, seeing how a lot of the 9/11 idiots lived here and/or came through my area. bone: ive argued that here myself, as well as in other places. I see NOTHING about hunting or sporting uses. I see "to kill the enemy". That is why I never say that I am just into guns because I like them. My signature on my posts pretty much says how I feel about that. I think maybe bigfoot wallace might be talking about the minutemen. That is a lot more like what he was describing. govt. funded, sorta regulated, to be called upon in times of need. I dont think the minutemen became the national guard, or did they? Some know this tidbit of info maybe? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ASSASSIN 1 Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 Hi all Over here in England when the home guard first started out they were a rag tag outfit of old men with farm tools and the like but by the end of the war they were quite well trained and equipped with .30-06 p17 rifles, there were even special forces cells that were secretly recruited and living in secret underground bunkers ready to come out and attack the invading german forces under the cover on night. I think that a kind of home guard is very usefull in the event of some kind of invasion be it enemy troops or terrorists. We all need to be on our guard against the axis of evil. all the best assassin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 You guys make good points, and I guess I just don't see the need in my area for any group of people to defend the masses. I'm about to move to another town, should I feel less secure, that might change. I know if I lived in New York I'd probably have reason to fear terrorists, as NY is a target just like LA and DC. I guess in KY I just don't feel threatened, and I think that's a good thing. Short of us being attacked by an ICBM and Fort Knox being hit, wiping out most of my state, I probably won't ever fall victim to an attack...I think that's how things are now, but sure, it could change. I guess I just think on a smaller scale, like theives/muggers are the only threat I might encounter. Do not think I leave the safety of the people in the hands of the FED gov, we must all be responsible for each other, and I guess in the end, that's what you all are talking about. Gaddis: that was a witty response, and I'll concede there are probably other terrorist cells working in the background, its easy to do when you have all the rights that we enjoy as citizens, that's how militias stock pile weapons, if they would just keep it legal (and not convert em to FA) they'd be left alone by the ATF. It doesn't mean that a Patriot Act is warranted to combat "terrorists." Bvamp: Sorry if you thought I was attacking the professional/safe nature of your group, retired military is a great source. Oh, and the National Guard does consider the state militias as their heritage, starting in 1636 in Mass. I believe is what I read in my Natl. Guard Atlas they gave me a few years ago. I guess they like to rub that in the faces of Reg Army that date back only to 1775...hehe. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 well, who is to say that we here wouldnt need help ever? But I will say this: I do not live in fear. Of anything, short of not being able to pay the bills. No man, no way, no how. I am free like you all are, and live my life as such. What I wont do is give my security up to the wind and hope that myself, my family, and my friends and neighbors ARE protected. The official "protectors" of the people are spread way too thin for me to believe that we are. Ten minutes after a phone call to 911, can mean you have been dead for nine minutes when they get there to help you. And I dont think you were attacking my little band I belong to. I wanted to clarify that there are lots of guys out there from all walks of life that fully agree with this logic, and in my circles at least, are willing to do something about it. So the national guard is the former militia then. that is what I was thinking. Are you sure it is the militia and not the minutemen? The minutemen were the ones that GOB referred to up there, I believe. I always get the two backwards....same concepts i guess, but slightly different means of doing so. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted July 23, 2004 Report Share Posted July 23, 2004 Bvamp= The minuite men were a militia. One that had been formed and'well regulated' to take care of a particular danger! The ability to form the same when necessary is why "The government shall not pass any law that infringes on the right of the people to keep and bear arms". The term'bear arms' has a specific meaning it was the perogitave of the king to say WHO could 'bear arms'=we decided we don't need any king-we will make that decision for ourselves! For very enlightening reading look into Washington's first crisis,getting the troups to muster for the wiskey rebellion! (the army was then 'volunteer militias' and true 'citizen soldiers') Assassin- The english home guard was origionally armed by the american people sending them a few of our personal weapons! (unfortunatly at the end of the war most of them were destroyed rather than returned-NOT verry sporting eh whot!) G O B Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bone 0 Posted July 24, 2004 Report Share Posted July 24, 2004 the problem is the the movies and media have polluted the word mallitia to the point of blaspheme, i live in the thumb of michigan, if you mention the word malitia the first thing an un educated liberal thinks is " hey that dude on the news that bombed oaklahoma city was in the michigan mallitia" because thats what the news eluded to, bu&%$it, he was from the area, and new people that were connected to it, but his views were too extreme to be a member. they always have to have a reason someone did something, a cause or a force that made so and so do whatever stupid shit they did, how bout the fact that the person is just fricken nuts?? cant people swallow that? newspeople are pathalogical lie ers that elaborate on stories by pulling info out of there ass just to hear themselves talk! and the uneducated, suv drivin, masses believe it just to make themselves feel better cuz "no one could just do that on there own" ever seen the movie falling down? micheal douglas? no reason just snapped, that movie is like a documentry for todays society. (and it rocks!) LOL sorry for the rant guys, only on my second cup of coffee Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ASSASSIN 1 Posted July 24, 2004 Report Share Posted July 24, 2004 hI G O B that is correct , they recieved p17 .30-06 rifles and they were marked with a red band around the butt to make sure it was clear that they were .30-06 p17 rifles and not .303 p14 rifles. i still see some of these p17 rifles around with their red bands on , they often have "property of U.S government" or "U.S property" stamped on them and like you say they were supposed to be returned after the war but in fact they were mostly sold off as target shooting rifles and hunting rifles after the war and this is why we still have them around today. all the best assassin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted July 24, 2004 Report Share Posted July 24, 2004 GOB: I read a book of probably the only first hand account of the revolution by a conscript. "Yankee Doodle Private" is what it was called. very good reading. In there I believe this guy went into how the militia were basically conscript soldiers, that werent on duty until activated, much like the national guard today....and that the minutemen were not conscripted, but were men with guns that werent loyalists, who could be called upon at short notice, and served for something like 30 days or something like that. I dont think the original militia and minutemen are interchangeable. I am fairly certain there was a difference between the two. Militia were paid for instance, the minutemen were not. The guy goes into that in parts in his writings, a little. I would think a first hand witness to the revolutionary war would know better than any of us? Ill have to read it again and find his exact words. If any of you are into old war history like I am, DEFINATELY get and read that book. Its the real deal....you dont see many books like that anymore. Its comparable to Lewis and Clark's known works. (by the way, did anybody know that Clark died a few years later from self-inflicted gunshot wounds? he shot himself in the head, that didnt work, then he shot himself in the heart and didnt die for a day or two after. what an end for such a great man.) Bone: the media huh? what do you think would be going on with hostage taking in iraq if ALL the media either would not or by law COULD NOT air footage of any of that b.s.? The media screws up just about anything that isnt to do with the stock market. I am surprised that they get off so lightly with all of the problems they cause or inflame. I have proof the media are idiots. After 911, some reporter here in new york area, goes out, buys a preban ak, puts all KINDS of crap on it, nothing legal of course, and then goes on the AIR with it saying how easy it is to get the stuff. He was picked up by the ATF a few days later, but that was kept REAL HUSH HUSH by the station. Seems its easy to get it, but its ILLEGAL, and they dont go point that part out. no, guns are bad. has nothing to do with the man holding the gun, right? its the gun's fault. media. the media needs an aenima. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted July 24, 2004 Report Share Posted July 24, 2004 Bone: That was a good movie, got it on DVD. And McVey, so it was reported, had parts from "The Turner Diaries" in his passenger seat when he was pulled over. Anyone here read the book? They say he chose the time based on the passages in it where the main character blows up the FBI bldg in response to the gov taking all guns away and letting the economy slowly collapse. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bigfoot Wallace 0 Posted July 25, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2004 My idea is like the mintueman Bvamp describes. Citizens called for short periods of time during a crisis but doing the regular lives the rest of the time. We cannot use the word militia, but I like minutemen. Sleeper cells could be considered an invasion of sorts, the worst kind, enemy soliders without uniforms Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted July 26, 2004 Report Share Posted July 26, 2004 I was looking at my Tribourough bridge authority pass I have from the NY National Guard today. I noticed something. It says right on it: For use ONLY when conductiong New York State Militia duties. This pass is the property of the new york state milita...blah blah blah.... it dont say anything about new york state national guard on it. thought it was interesting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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