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The word Militia first started getting a bad conotation 'round my parts with the Ruby Ridge incident.

Weaver was a white supremcist I think, and wouldn't turn states evidence on his buddy's (pretty much clan'smen gone west - they called'm skin heads back in the day), anyway, not a desirable charactor. He bought 1 SAWED OFF shot gun, from the an atf guy (who offered him by the way) - then when pressured, wouldn't give up the names of anyone else. He didn't show up for his court date.

200 special forces dudes showed up at his cabin - shot his dog, his wife and his son. Could've been warrented, depends on the media you get this info from, both sides of the issue play it out pretty drama-queen like.

 

His case, and all charges against him were dropped by a supreme court.

From then on - anyone who stockpiled guns in there home - legal or not made the news, alot of which were survivalists - a few crazy, by far not all.

 

At that time any one who gathered together, in the name of a militia, or had ANYthing to do with fire arms - was watched and whatched fiercly, making news, the whole bit.

The words uni-bomber, and Oklahoma city - get used a lot in the same sentence - when describing these individuals or organizations.

 

Now with the patriot act, anyone's a terrorist - no reason - no rhyme. just accusations will do.

I don't support anything those kind's stand for - but it was kinda disheartening to whatch some of the situations unfold. alot of unfareness took place. especially when the police were called to someones home for some unrelated reason - more than one or two guns discovered, then all the sudden he's a nut, and on the NEWS! WHAT THE HELL!!!!!!

Fear definatly gets associated with the word, just like the banana clip on an ak, It has been spun into a black area.

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a side note. Did you all know it is law that if you make a multiple firearm purchase from a dealer, they have to by law inform uncle sam? Im not sure what they are supposed to give over for info, but I do know that they it is done.

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frightful if you ask me! what if me and my kid go in together? will some one knock on my door? shoot my dog?

on a side note, again:

my buddy's liscence plate (actually his girlfriends) got stolen off his mustang (97)and used for a robbery (same make/model i guess). He had recently bought a 7.62X39 saiga, from a gun store.

When the cops came by his app. guns drawn, they asked him WHERE the assualt rifle was stored!! they didn't have a search warrent but they baited him to the door and had him open it, and shoved in.

he cleared the whole thing up pretty easily, AND caught the real purp. cause the guy swapped with his - what a friggin idiot!! kid I think.

they didn't ask for his name, WHERE is the assault riffle, is all that was said. when the cops ran all the occupants, his name having the saiga attached, I guess they couldn't wait!(to be rational I mean, or get a warrent).

good thing he was an easy goin' guy, it coulda turned out different.

a little taste of the mentality, goin' around.

Edited by Siagalova
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The dealer in my town said that they don't store the serial numbers to what we buy in DC, they just call in and say long gun or handgun and get an approval for the purchase. If a crime occurs and a weapon is found, the ATF traces the serial# to the dealer, and then demands to see thier paperwork. Also, he said I could buy a dozen rifles and all he'd say is "you want ammo for those." ...but, if I were to get 3 handguns in one day, he has to report it.

 

Oh yeah, the Patriot Act is BS, and unconstitutional, if you ask me. You watch and see what crap they pass if we get attacked again! ...its amazing what you can get away with when people are scared and rallied behind the flag.

 

State gun laws are the same...in KY we got it pretty easy, but as soon as we have a shooting with AKs like Calif., here comes the laws/bans.

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no, the serials arent stored in DC< they are stored in your local sherriff's dept. computers/records. believe me, you arent anonymous at all anymore with firearms. big brother watches what we read. he listens to our phone conversations, reads our emails, watches what websites we go to. what makes you think he doesnt know who bought what gun new? they would love to track all firearms sales, but they just cant do it.

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Did you all know it is law that if you make a multiple firearm purchase from a dealer, they have to by law inform uncle sam? Im not sure what they are supposed to give over for info, but I do know that they it is done.

can you give a link to whee we can find the law covering this?

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here is something that is pretty clear on the ATF site. its more like a FAQ.

 

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/ffrrg/transcripts/ltthree.htm

 

multiple handguns, what next? ill tell ya whats next....wait, i bet you already guessed....

 

here is the actual form link...note that it is under section 3000 entitled "Criminal Enforcement Operations and Programs"

 

http://www.atf.gov/forms/3000.htm

 

form #3310.4

 

and I will tell ya, when they call up the NICS check, they are giving my ss#, my DOB, my full name, my address, my driver's license # AND the gun's serial number as well as make/model etc....if they ARENT storing that anywhere, (its not like its that much data, like 1kb) i would be amazed. You dont seriously think that the govt. deletes that info from NICS once it goes through, do you? how did the cops know Saigalova's buddy even HAD a saiga? come on now guys, this is big brother we are talking about. we lost all privacy during ww2. its just becoming public, is all. i dont think the sherriff or state police are calling up every gun shop in the state and adjacent states to see if so and so has a gun....

 

and as for just handguns? well. there might be a form for just handguns, but I tell ya, my dealer had an interesting conversation with NICS when he called in my AR/SAR purchase. even HE said it was strange. go figure. i think the govt. needs to be audited, then given a nice juicy aenima, just like the media. enough is enough already. yet another example of guilty until proven innocent.

Edited by Bvamp
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FITTING TRIVIA, ANY TAKERS ON THIS ONE? ITS A SONG! EARLY 70'S

 

" and the seargant said "kid we dont like your kind here, im gonna send your fingerprints off to washington" and folks, somewhere in washington, enshrined in a little folder, in black and white, are my fingerprints"

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That wasn't the only time a cop opened with "where's your gun".

God, this makes me out to be such a criminal, I've just had a lot of encounters - bad crowd when I was younger!

In the car with a respected EMT in my town, 30yrs experiance. Freind to ALL police in this meager city of 1.5million. He sees all the bad stuff in the city everyday. It kinda makes his veiws distorted (I'm goin' off track). He applied for a conceiled weapons permitt, carries his gun all the time! we blow a stop sign that was pretty hidden - the blue lights come not far after!

the cop (rightly so prob.) comes up on us REAL creepy like, very diliberate. I being the expert in the situation, knew right away to brace up!! it wasn't right, I could smell the tension.

I was amazed when my friend rolls down the window, and just like that, "where's your gun mr. ******." Called him by name!! not a liscenes, reg., and insurance!!!! hand on gun!!!! it was creepy, I didn't feel real free!!

to be fair, a con weapons here in oregon has a procedure when getting pulled over. you're supposed to put the gun on the dash or something, I don't know.

I have never had to carry a gun with me all the time. In the inner city your wit and senses are your best weapon!!

P.s. I think that big brother will watch you if you bring attention to yourself. Like ranting anti gov. on a world wide web site!!!!LOL there's just too much info in the world for sweeping, generalness. (I'm prob. not too far off on the website comment! I'm not scared).

Bvamp I'M COMPLETLY WITH YOU ON THE EANAMA THING!!!!!! I was watching a doc. on the founding fathers last night - those cats didn't even realize how genius they were!!!

Edited by Siagalova
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I'm goin' with BVAMP, the rifles go on record to your local sheriff's office as well. your name gets tagged with the serial number. THIS I have no doubt, Have you ever been asked for you to prove your registration by a cop for the guns that're with you? I have.

 

My buddy with the saiga, not only having the coincidence of the liscenence plate, he also showed ON HIS PROFILE, the assault weapon - they point blank told him, THIS IS FACT. That's why they came so hard at him, they were apologizing 'cause he's young - but an upstanding citizen. Why would they be telling stories!!

I was there 15 min. after they left. it's a true story.

 

I'm certainly not bashing the police, they've earned my respect time and time again - but they're cuffed by the laws, and there is where we've let our lawmakers have their way, motivated by half baked polls, and one rally group or the other.

 

It's hard to be in touch with reality when you're isolated by stupid behavior. Kinda like a rock star - these guys aren't in touch with us anymore. Most lived lives that are priviledged in the first place, making them more ignorant.

Edited by Siagalova
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Saigalova: tell your buddy to have his permit out and on his lap next time, and not to look like hes digging around in the car when he is stopped. laws are only for those that will follow them. dont get me wrong here, I like the police and all, but they DO do whatever the hell they feel like. I am guessing that owning a gun is up to your sherriff. permits for handguns and class3 are issued by the sherriff's dept. so I would guess the ATF goes ahead and forwards them this info illegally for "later use" in case it ever does become legal to track all weapons sales. including rifles. they do it ANYWAY, who cares what the law says. you are guilty until proven innocent. i dont care if they know what guns i have, i just want to know when presuming people are guilty if they THINK you are became legal. Ask any cop. if they THINK you did it, thats all they need. too bad this isnt civil court, though, because that crap might actually (and often does) float there. I mean come on, wiretapping is illegal, but they let guys wear wires on people, they do stakeouts with eavesdropping equipment. again, laws are only for those that would follow them. why do the lawful bunch get the short end of the stick? anyway, thats way off topic from what we were discussing about a private home guard....wait, we would be prosecuted if we got organised with that too, i bet. menacing or a threat to security i would guess thier freak flag would be under... I am willing to bet, if the AWB does really (will it?) expire, that it is because hillary thinks she is a target and wants a gun for her own damn self. or leibermann or any of them. whats good for us turns out not to be good for them huh....o well. the whole subject pisses me off as it is, so ill cut it short.

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Bvamp=Fienstien got a concealed carry permit but she still wants us to give up our guns. Maybe she just wants ours 'cause she's TOO CHEAP to buy her own!

Also here in Md. it is now 7day wait on s-12's-just like handguns! Years ago we had 'assosiate sherrif's deputies'-but the Kate Kennedy-Townsend social engineers killed that!

 

G O B

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regardless of how many people voted for these beurocrats, it comes down to only a few people (them) changing laws how THEY see fit. I tell ya, when they go to take away the second amendment, it better go to a public vote....yeh we voted them in because there werent any other damn choices! you need to have millions to get a seat anymore.

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Funny Emclean!

The rifle thing I just took for granted, I'm ok with the sheriff knowing it's there! If it helps them, fine. But we all know that criminals get there guns unregistered, so this treatment that I'm getting is way uncalled for! I just don't like the attitude that guns mean criminal activity, in there (everybody's) eyes! Like I said, I just didn't feel too free - being drawn on!

I just feel more of it coming!

THAT'S where my concern is!

Bvamp: Beleive me, I know that digging around for paperwork isn't cool. When I get pulled over, I keep my hands on the steering wheel, fingers open - being vary obvious! when the cop gets to the window, I ask (even when he tells me) to dig in the glove box. It TOTALLY eases the whole situation, cops really appreciate that! the body language changes in a minute.

sucks that I have to, my point.

Ps. I've always thought that if the cop thinks you're guilty, the court is almost always in agreement. I've never heard of anyone winning when up against a police report!! EVER!

Edited by Siagalova
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This is starting to sound like a paranoid picnic, the conspiracy theories were getting thick, and the sheriff has a record of all my guns? Where do the records come from? Do I have to worry about the sheriffs from all the counties I have bought in, or did they all send it to everyone?

 

got anything to back up this clam?

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well the nics check is done locally, not in DC. I know this for a fact. And like i was saying, do you REALLY think they take all that info and then just delete it? you GAVE it to the police is what they will say, probably. EXACTLY WHERE they keep it, I dont know, but I am sure it is just a matter of just pulling up your record, and hitting a button for known registered firearms. Ask one of the cops in here, Im sure they can go into detail about this for you. I doubt it will come up unless it is a handgun on a traffic stop, but serving a warrant, I am sure they do some extra homework. They probably need the warrant to pull up registered firearms for said individual anyhow, but I do know that CCW holders here have that info tagged onto thier info that is pulled up when your plate or ID is checked. And by law, you are supposed to declare your handgun to the cops. so if you dont, how do they know? well if its the law to declare it, I am sure they have it tagged right up there in an easy to see spot on your records.

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What the hell? what are you guys talking about?

In this computer age you don't think that a serial number to a gun is attached to your NORMAL POLICE COMPUTER FILE, I know that it is mine, I've seen it? It's a little blurb like felon, porole, or child molester! it has the abbreviation RGO, or S it comes up on one of the lines. I did the whole thing one day, when the sharif came up to the range (in the woods).

 

When you sell a gun person to person here you go take $25 (or whateverit is I've only bought new), to your local gun shop and get the number changed to your name - just like (or similar) to a car title! At the VERY least you hold on to a bill of sale UNTIL YOU CAN GET THERE. That record is open to local law inforcement. How do you think they solve muders? (part of the reason you retain a bill of sale from that guy you sold your rifle to).

 

Is the rest of the contry different than Oregon? That's how it's been here for a while now. I assumed it was that way everywhere, sorry guys. NO conspiracy, that's not even what I'm talking about.

 

I was making comment on the status of the perception having and owning a gun is - especially an assualt rifle!

The people in the city make the laws here, the people outside the city feel the consequences. SUPER LIBERAL CITY TOO! We can't hunt cougar with dogs because of similar, close minded hunting/gun control!

 

The police report comment really comes from the fact that I've tried to fight traffic tickets and been there waiting and hereing everyone elses casses those times that I have. And helped guys with child costody cases, and restraining orders and the shit like that (I'm an Father's rights advocate). I was just sayin' that once the police report comes out, rarely ever does the defendant get a break!! so what ever's written there better be WHAT happened.

Edited by Siagalova
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we have the 20$ every five year thing here for each and every handgun, in New York. It applies to ALL pistols...black powder, percussion, antique, new, you name it. We are working on that person-to-person transfer deal here soon...as it is now, its just a good idea to call up the sherriff and make sure its ok to transfer to said person and record that xfer for your own protection with long arms. Pistols you have to xfer through a dealer.

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boys you need to move out of those states. i will ask the LOE / CLOE i know about it. what are you talking about with "registered firearms"?

 

In this computer age you don't think that a serial number to a gun is attached to your NORMAL POLICE COMPUTER FILE, I know that it is mine, I've seen it? It's a little blurb like felon, porole, or child molester! it has the abbreviation RGO, or S it comes up on one of the lines. I did the whole thing one day, when the sharif came up to the range (in the woods).

 

When you sell a gun person to person here you go take $25 (or whateverit is I've only bought new), to your local gun shop and get the number changed to your name - just like (or similar) to a car title! At the VERY least you hold on to a bill of sale UNTIL YOU CAN GET THERE. That record is open to local law inforcement. How do you think they solve muders? (part of the reason you retain a bill of sale from that guy you sold your rifle to).

 

i do not think that my guns are part of my"NORMAL POLICE COMPUTER FILE", if they were, whitch guns would be there? i have bought most of my guns out of state (when in the Army), or from frends.

 

i have no idea what Oregon is doing, but around here, if i want to sell you a gun, any gun, i hand you the gun, you hand me the money. I would want a bill of sale, but the state is not involved unless we want it.

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well see, i dont WANT to move out of my state. i will if they come knocking on the door for my guns because of some law being passed that says only the police and the persons signing the law can have guns. THEN I would move. otherwise, ill deal with it. money is too good in my area, and i know way too many people and have too many favors to pull in yet to leave here. If i DID leave, i would probably move to vermont or somewhere very gun-pro, but there has to be money in the area for me to make my living in construction. I could go back to the computer industry I guess, but I dont feel like being stressed like that and having no control over it. too much for me. maybe the computer industry has nicer people in it than where I live, but I doubt it.

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o....well....when you do your nics check right? do you ever listen to the info they give? WHY would they need the gun's serial # as well as make and model if they arent going to record that info? it should be just my name, my info, and long arm or pistol. pistol then should get the serial according to you, but yet they give out that info to nics (which is local or state, not sure which level) when my dealer calls. so my logic is, WHY would uncle same if they TAKE the info and record it THEN, why wouldnt they store it for later use? im interested in what your LEO friends have to say. Next chance I get to ask the ones I know, I will. Then again, if Saltpeter would make an appearance, we could ask him about this. :)

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here is the sight I was just at:

http://www.gunlaws.com/index.htm

Emclean, dude! I didn't see anything about long guns, except for the felony type laws!

There's a sh..t load on hand guns like thumb prints an the like.

WHAT THE HELL????????

I have been harrassed about serial numbers, and ownership! I'm not sure what this is about, maybe the gun shops do it as a curtessy - I'm going right after work to ask someone!! I'm friggin HOT about this. I just assumed that this was procedure.

My buddy with the saiga, and the liscense plate HAPPENED. the first thing was "whereis your assault weapon?" That's why the detectives stormed his house!

I don't know what to say except MY ASS HURTS!

I thought that was normal police shit that they do everyday! there's GOT TO BE AN EXPLANATION. I'll let you guys know. I don't care who I have to call!

Edited by Siagalova
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WHY would they need the gun's serial # as well as make and model if they arent going to record that info?

it couldent be to see if it has been reported stolen, no too easy, and as to why not to keep a record, how about the suprem court said that they could not keep the records for audit.

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Guys- WE cannot afford to loose a single state! If half a dozen states throw out the 2nd. ammendment ,then we will soon have feds passing NATIONWIDE anti gun legeslation! Why should I have to move out of a state where I have 300 years of ancestors because OUT OF STATE MONEY is being used to DEFY the will of the people? I have 6 years untill retirement when I can afford to move to the mountains-either N.C, or maybe go see KYsoldier! But untill then I plan to FIGHT for MY RIGHTS! We all need to get POLITICAL! In our maryland government we came down to ONEvote (a democrat!) of having every semi-auto weapon CONFISCATED! These are troubled times and our civil liberties are under under attack from BOTH sides of the political spectrum! Call and write every elected official and tell them that you want to keep your rights-and if they will not fight for YOUR rights, you will fight AGAINST them!

 

G O B

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Ok, emclean asked me to butt in here. I have read some of the above posts and I am kinda suprised at what your states are doing to you. Here's how it works in Florida...

 

When you buy a gun from an FFL dealer, he must make a NICS call. It costs $5. He calls it in to the FDLE (Florida Dept of Law Enforcement). They ask for the buyers name, SSN, and DOB. They also ask "long gun or handgun". That's all. Individual state agencies handle the background checks but I think there is a federal entity that will do it if your state doesn't have the setup. Like I said, though, in Florida it is the FDLE.

 

When you fill out the yellow federal form (I forget what the form number is), the dealer has to keep it in a file for 10 years. It doesn't go anywhere, it just sits in his file. If the ATF ever comes for the file, it means the gun is now the subject of a criminal investigation. They do show up every once in a while to inspect dealers to make sure they are doing what they're supposed to. But they are not allowed to record anything from the yellow forms unless it is a criminal investigation.

 

When I run across a gun during my work shift, I can only do one thing: run the gun in NCIC/FCIC (National Crime Information Computer/Florida Crime Information Computer). The computer will either say "no record found" or it will tell me that the gun was reported stolen on a certain date to a certain jurasdiction. It never comes up with any owner info.

 

If the gun was used in a crime and does not come up as stolen in the computer, I have to submit a trace request to the ATF. They will then take the serial number to the manufacturer and find out who the sold it to (such as ABC Distributing). Then the ATF goes to that buyer and finds out who they sold it to (ABC Distributing sold it to XYZ Gun Shop). The ATF then goes to the gun dealer and pulls up the yellow form (indicating XYZ Guns sold it to Joe Blo). It goes on from there, in the attempt to determine how the gun ended up at the crime scene. The trail might end when the person who bought it at the gun shop shows the ATF that they reported it stolen to the local PD. Or the trail might go on when the buyer shows the ATF that they sold it to another citizen in a private sale. (For that reason, it is probably smart to keep a record of private sales of guns just to cover your ass.)

 

In our local computer system, which keeps logs on the calls that officers have been to, addresses, phone numbers, names, and notes are recorded. Caution flags can be put on certain address, but it only happens if there has been a relatively serious problem there before. Gun references are usually limited to "known to possess weapons and is violent" or "threats made toward law enforcement" or "prior arrests for felon in possession of firearm". Recording a serial number in the computer is a serious no-no, however, and a new law just past in Florida makes it a FELONY for a government agency to keep any such database (read about how law enforcement agencies are confused and somewhat frustrated by this law here). There has never been any sentiment among any cops I ever knew to keep track of gun owners who have never been violent.

 

Whew! I hope this answers some questions.

Edited by SaltPeter
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