Azkamidaka 26 Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 Is it legal to have a saiga without a stock and only a pistol grip. For some reason I think that its not. TO CLARIFY. im talking about a saiga 12 that has NO stock! JUST a pistol grip. Like the ar15 pistol. Awaiting enlightenment.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DaGroaner 2 Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 Is it legal to have a saiga without a stock and only a pistol grip. For some reason I think that its not. TO CLARIFY. im talking about a saiga 12 that has NO stock! JUST a pistol grip. Like the ar15 pistol. Awaiting enlightenment.. As long as it has an 18" bbl and 26"(I think) overall length and has the correct number of US parts it's fine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azkamidaka 26 Posted January 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 So if I had the credentials to own a SBS could one theoretically own one of tony's micro s12's w/o the stock? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 You could have a micro S-12 if you bought it as a SBS. I don't think you can have a 12ga pistol. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azkamidaka 26 Posted January 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 due to the law or mechanical constraints? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ironhead7544 35 Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 Once its registered as a SBS you dont need a stock. The AOW is the one that you cant put a stock on. The AOW is a special class of shot gun that is manufactured as a pistol. I think there may be some combo rifle/ shotguns in that class also. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azkamidaka 26 Posted January 11, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 SCHWEET Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Conju 2 Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 You could have a micro S-12 if you bought it as a SBS. I don't think you can have a 12ga pistol. 12ga pistol = 12ga AOW, must be registered and carries the same stipulations on receivers that an AK pistol would. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BattleRifleG3 16 Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 You can make your own short barreled shotgun with the same paperwork to the ATF and a $200 tax. If a Saiga-12 were already made as an AOW you could transfer for $5 and all the same papers. But making either one without a license is $200, so I would recommend that route as opposed to trying to build a Saiga-12 on a virgin receiver. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geister 2 Posted January 11, 2007 Report Share Posted January 11, 2007 In order to make an AOW it must be a virgin receiver, or a pistol receiver. It must never have had a stock on it. I don't believe any virgin receivers have been imported, or clone knock-offs created. So for now SBS is the only option, but SBS can be stockless. Confused yet? Geister Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azkamidaka 26 Posted January 12, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 Ok I think ive got it. Well damn, thats going to be tough. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
beerslurpy 1 Posted January 12, 2007 Report Share Posted January 12, 2007 A shotgun only becomes a short barrelled shotgun when it becomes less than 26" OAL or 18" barrel length. A saiga with no buttstock and an 18" barrel is still about 27-28" long. It hasnt become an SBS or AOW. To become an SBS, you would need to cut down the barrel below 18" or cut off enough receiver to render the gun non-functional. To make a saiga AOW, you would need to bend an AK pistol receiver (it is the same as a normal AK only with different guts and barrel) and build up your saiga on it. And it would still cost 200 dollars unless you were an SOT (in which case it would be free to make and $5 to transfer thereafter). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mikeNM 8 Posted January 16, 2007 Report Share Posted January 16, 2007 (edited) Now, just some clearification? So, If you bought a ak receiver marked "pistol" are you saying that since the Saiga was never offered as a pistol, your saying you couldn't build a AOW Saiga??? I'm confused as there are a number of AR15 "pistols" being sold as well as Ak "pistols" that use the receiver marked "pistol"..... maybe Tony will jump in???. I'm familiar with NFA stuff. So, clear the air??? Looks like Beer slurppy is on the know? mike NM Edited January 16, 2007 by mikeNM Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RDSWriter 5 Posted January 16, 2007 Report Share Posted January 16, 2007 In short, you can't make a 12 gauge PISTOL in the U.S. - A smooth bore pistol pistol is not a pistol... it's an AOW. - A rifled bore 12gauge pistol is not a pistol, it's a DD because the round is greater than 50 cal. You can make a 12 gauge AOW, but (as others pointed out) you need to start the conversion with a receiver that has NEVER had a stock on it, and preferably was papered on the 4473 as a pistol. In short, home building your own receiver is probably the easier route if you absolutely have to have an AOW. That way you can make sure all the specs - dimensions, sheetmetal gauge, cuts, holes, etc are exact. If you want NFA and you're not an SOT, you'll pay $200 making tax for an AOW or an SBS. Personally... I see no reason for the AOW unless you live in a state that does not allow SBSs. With an SBS, you have a folded stock and get the same pistol effect with the capablility for shoulder firing. Alternatively, you could just remove the stock as well. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azkamidaka 26 Posted January 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2007 Wow, thanks for all the info gents. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted January 16, 2007 Report Share Posted January 16, 2007 - A smooth bore pistol pistol is not a pistol... it's an AOW. Lets not forget the Saiga 410. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azkamidaka 26 Posted January 16, 2007 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2007 That might be a more managable pistol. Good call Ky Quote Link to post Share on other sites
inparidel 4 Posted January 17, 2007 Report Share Posted January 17, 2007 So if I had the credentials to own a SBS could one theoretically own one of tony's micro s12's w/o the stock? You already sound as if yoyu know the answer to your question. A reminder, no amount of bad advice will overcome the guilt under the law, bud, if that is what you are trying to acquire. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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