Attaching a new flash hider

[ndomres 0]

OK;

 

I just got my new phantex flash hider in the mail today and I need to know how to get the muzzle thread cover out w/o doing any more damage.

 

I vised the barrel in a towel, and trield to twist off the thread protector w/ a pipe wrench. It only left radial scratches on the thread protector w/o working it loose.

 

Do I need to let the end of the barrel soak in some solvent to loosen things up, or am I taking this in the wrong fucking direction?

 

 

Any Suggestions?

[Bad Bob 0]

OK;

 

I just got my new phantex flash hider in the mail today and I need to know how to get the muzzle thread cover out w/o doing any more damage.

 

I vised the barrel in a towel, and trield to twist off the thread protector w/ a pipe wrench. It only left radial scratches on the thread protector w/o working it loose.

 

Do I need to let the end of the barrel soak in some solvent to loosen things up, or am I taking this in the wrong fucking direction?

 

 

Any Suggestions?

 

Which "thread cover" are you talking about? I'm pretty new here, but it's my understanding that the Saigas have unthreaded muzzles, and the sleeve that covers the end of the (unthreaded) barrel is attached to the front sight base (that's how it was on my .223 Saiga). I know (as I know you do) that other imported AKs have / had "thread protectors" installed, but I don't think the Saigas are in that group. I had to thread my Saiga barrel myself.

 

All is not lost - as I said, you can thread things yourself, or talk to dinzag about a non-threaded muzzle device. Based on my experience (those Ruskis make some h@ll-for-stout barrel steel), if you don't already own the tools to thread the muzzle, I would contact dinzag...

 

;>)

[Bad Bob 0]

Or, simply forget about a muzzle device. I went to the trouble, because I had done it many times before, had the tools in the shop, and had a spare AK-74-type 22 caliber brake in my parts box. (In some ways I wish I hadn't bothered - that Russian barrel steel was more of a pain-in-the-@ss than anything I've ever threaded before.) In retrospect, I'm not sure it was worth the time or effort. Given the weight of a .223 Saiga, a brake isn't needed - and a flash suppressor may or may not be needed, depending on the ammo you're using. Plus, a 'plain Jane' barrel is shorter than any barrel with a device on the end, and doesn't require that you add to the 'compliance part' count.

 

FWIW, your mileage may vary, etc., etc.

[ndomres 0]

Well;

 

There's a sunken ring in the crown of the muzzle that inspired me to think there's a muzzle cover there. Also, the barrel steel seemed rather thin to me when I twisted the pliers- left a 1/16" grove.

 

I work out in BFE WY, UT, and ND and would like spend more time varmint plinking. I get a 12" flash at night w/ most kinds of ammo. I will have a full U.S. part compliace when my Tromix conversion is done.

[vjor 2]

Hey Bad bob are you the one that used the old ways with the file to take meat out of then

barrel and later the die and TAT to make the treats concentric? just curios a lot

of people don't notice it on a old pots a lost some good how too.

[IndyArms 10,186]

If you are working on a FACTORY SAIGA BARREL... *STOP*

 

The barrel has a SLEEVE that is PART OF THE Front Sight Block!!!

 

IF you want to thread the barrel, you will need to cut the sleeve off at the FSB...

 

I would recommend NOT DOING THIS until you have all the tools to do the job right the first time.

 

A dremel with cutting wheels to cut off the sleeve, a Threading kit, which includes a Die, the die handle, and a TAT.

 

The TAT = Thread Alignment Tool. It is NOT ADVISED to thread WITHOUT THE TAT!!!! The TAT allows you to be sure you are threading true to the bore, and will make sure your brake is aligned properly, and not on crooked... which can turn it into a dangerous object as bullets zing off it before exiting.

 

Now... Check out THIS THREAD...

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=7652

 

That will show you all the step by steps... and you should be all set to go from there.

 

 

If you want to put a NON-gunsmithing style brake on, Dinzag sells some slip over ones that are absolutely awesome... and will slide over the sleeve and lock in place. That is another option, although you already have a brake thats threaded... so you would then need to buy another saiga to thread THAT barrel... LOL ( See how the bug bites?!?!?! )

 

Good luck... Any other questions, PLEASE ask!

 

We are here to help, and want to make sure ya dont fuck up your rifle, or more importantly, yourself, or anyone else!!!

 

[ndomres 0]

I think I'll just leave well enough alone and have the flash hider attached during the gunsmith conversion. I could probably get by w/ lopping off the barrel sleeve w/ a pipe cutter and a dremel tool-

 

but there's always the chance that I'd fuck it up. Thanks for your help.

[Bad Bob 0]

Hey Bad bob are you the one that used the old ways with the file to take meat out of then

barrel and later the die and TAT to make the treats concentric? just curios a lot

of people don't notice it on a old pots a lost some good how too.

You betcha (you're right as always ;>) - I'm the guy that uses hand tools to thread rifle barrels for muzzle devices. I'm an old fart - I learned it from Gunplumber (The Source of All WECSOG Knowledge ;>), at Arizona Response Systems, way back in the '90s, when FALs (not AKs) were the 'new WECSOG project on the block.'

 

BTW, hand tools work every time, if you're careful, and take your time!

 

(But let me tell you, those Ruski barrels are made out of some M-Fing tough steel! ;>)

[vjor 2]

Hey Bad bob are you the one that used the old ways with the file to take meat out of then

barrel and later the die and TAT to make the treats concentric? just curios a lot

of people don't notice it on a old pots a lost some good how too.

You betcha (you're right as always ;>) - I'm the guy that uses hand tools to thread rifle barrels for muzzle devices. I'm an old fart - I learned it from Gunplumber (The Source of All WECSOG Knowledge ;>), at Arizona Response Systems, way back in the '90s, when FALs (not AKs) were the 'new WECSOG project on the block.'

 

BTW, hand tools work every time, if you're careful, and take your time!

 

(But let me tell you, those Ruski barrels are made out of some M-Fing tough steel! ;>)

 

Yes I know I did my barrel that way, and have done other stuff that way too

hey I did something I little different to give some more guidance on the dept

of the filing, I measure how deep I wanted the treats on the barrel and

well I use a tubing cutter with steel wheel to mark the dept on the barrel

like that I know how much to file with out going to deep and make

all files even, cool bro find some one that does stuff the old ways.

[Bad Bob 0]

...cool bro find some one that does stuff the old ways.

 

I know for a fact that you don't mind new ways & new ideas. Heck, half the time you come up with them by yourself!

 

Thanks for the hint on using a tubing cutter to set depth. I'll do it that way in the future...

 

;>)

[vjor 2]

...cool bro find some one that does stuff the old ways.

 

I know for a fact that you don't mind new ways & new ideas. Heck, half the time you come up with them by yourself!

 

Thanks for the hint on using a tubing cutter to set depth. I'll do it that way in the future...

 

;>)

 

No bro I am not that smart, just learn to use a good idea when I see one.

and make things easy for my self, some one told me that is all ways more

ways to skin a cat.

[Bad Bob 0]

No bro I am not that smart, just learn to use a good idea when I see one.

and make things easy for my self, some one told me that is all ways more

ways to skin a cat.

 

Hey, Compadre, I've got no problem just following your lead. That bullet guide you worked up for Galil Orlites (with 'refinements' by angrydutchman, and 'marketing' by dinzag) works like a charm.

 

Thanks again!

 

;>)

[vjor 2]

[Bad Bob 0]

By the way I will like to know how much more stuff do you know,

been doing stuff for long time you probably know a lot of stuff

that can help more people do stuff on there homes with basic tools

and with out paying big bucks for something that look hard to work

on there guns but really is not when you know how to any help

will be good to any one, specially the first timers, doing there

first guns.

 

Actually, I'm pretty much a 'cook book' kind of guy - I don't try to reinvent the wheel. I figure, go to the website where they talk about building the rifle you want, read everything you can, and then take it slow & careful. Works for me, with FALs, AKs, ARs, and my Saiga conversion, so far. I started out working with FALs, using Gunplumber's FAL Cookbook (or whatever he calls it now), and some of the stuff like threading muzzles will work with just about any rifle, if you're careful (don't put a .223 brake on an 7.92mm, etc. ;>).

 

I did come up with a parts oven design a few years back. I still think it's the quickest, easiest, & cheapest design out there:

 

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread....;threadid=56218

 

If you need to bake any refinished parts (not really needed much with Saigas), it works great!

[JK-47 33]

Actually, I'm pretty much a 'cook book' kind of guy - I don't try to reinvent the wheel. I figure, go to the website where they talk about building the rifle you want, read everything you can, and then take it slow & careful. Works for me, with FALs, AKs, ARs, and my Saiga conversion, so far. I started out working with FALs, using Gunplumber's FAL Cookbook (or whatever he calls it now), and some of the stuff like threading muzzles will work with just about any rifle, if you're careful (don't put a .223 brake on an 7.92mm, etc. ;>).

 

I did come up with a parts oven design a few years back. I still think it's the quickest, easiest, & cheapest design out there:

 

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread....;threadid=56218

 

If you need to bake any refinished parts (not really needed much with Saigas), it works great!

 

 

Bad Bob, That FAL furnace is a thing of beauty; I allways imagined a heat gun might be adaquate for curing Hi temp paint and you went ahead an proved it.

Edited January 20, 2007 by JK-47

[Bad Bob 0]

Bad Bob, That FAL furnace is a thing of beauty; I allways imagined a heat gun might be adaquate for curing Hi temp paint and you went ahead an proved it.

That was, what - 4 years ago? - and I haven't had a problem with it yet. Haven't used it on an FAL recently, but did an AMD-65 build last year, and the finish came out great (I like using Duplicolor 1200 degree paint over parkerizing). The oven is kind of nice because it's modular, which makes storage real easy - I just stand it up in a corner of the shop when I'm not using it. You can also change the size of stove pipe you're using, to match the project. I kept the longer chunk of 4" pipe, for example, in case I ever need to do a barreled bolt action, etc.

 

Thinking about the oven reminds me: I was suprised to see that the Duplicolor 500 degree paint, which seems to be popular for Saiga conversions because it's close to the factory paint, doesn't need baking (according to the can). That's probably why folks have noticed that it comes off pretty easy with solvents, etc. I've never had a problem with the 1200 degree bake-on paint coming off that way - but it does end up with just the slightest purple tint sometimes (not sure why). Might look kind of 'custom' on an AK with plum furniture...

 

;>)

[IndyArms 10,186]

Without logging in and setting up an account, I cant read the furnace deal... anyway to reprint it for those of us "other-forum-ly" challenged?

 

[vjor 2]

Bob you are something.

[Bad Bob 0]

Without logging in and setting up an account, I cant read the furnace deal... anyway to reprint it for those of us "other-forum-ly" challenged?

 

Sorry - I didn't realize registration is required.

 

DISCLAIMER - I AM NOT AN OVEN DESIGNER. FOR ALL YOU KNOW, I AM NOT EVEN SANE. FOR ALL YOU KNOW, I AM AN ARSONIST WHO WANTS YOU TO BURN YOUR OWN HOUSE DOWN. I DO NOT GUARANTEE ANY OF THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM. USE THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION AT YOUR OWN RISK. CONSTRUCTION OF THE OVEN DESCRIBED BELOW MAY NOT BE LEGAL WHERE YOU LIVE, AND COULD RESULT IN PROPERTY DAMAGE, INJURY, OR DEATH!

 

OK, that's out of the way.

 

Basically, the oven consists of:

 

1) One electric heat gun (like you use for stripping paint);

2) One piece of double- or triple-wall stove pipe (make sure the inner diameter & length are large enough to fit your parts;

3) Two large metal coffee cans (or metal buckets, etc.) to cover the ends of the pipe;

4) One BBQ or deep fryer thermometer (which needs a temperature range up to at least 400 degrees F, and 700 F might be better);

5) Some kind of clamp to hold the heat gun (I just used a spring clamp big enough to fit the handle) ; and

6) Maybe some adapters, if the pipe is too big (6", like I use) for the coffee cans to cover the ends.

 

I already had the heat gun & clamp, so (IIRC) the pipe, adapters, and thermometer set me back less than $20.

 

To assemble the oven:

 

1) Cut a hole in the bottom of one coffee can just big enough to take the nozzle of the heat gun;

2) Cut a hole in the bottom of the other coffee can just big enough for the temperature sensor on whatever thermometer you're using;

3) Lay the pipe horizontally on a non-flamable surface (I used bricks to form a trough, initially, but later bolted together a couple of pieces of scrap angle iron to form a cradle);

4) Put one coffee can on each end (using the adaptors, if needed);

5) Mount the heat gun & thermometer in the appropriate holes (I ended up using a scrap bracket to mount the clamp to the angle iron cradle). The oven will run for several hours at a time, so make sure the heat gun is secure, and that the oven is located in a place with adequate ventilation, where it will not be tipped over by the dog, or the kids, or set fire to the house, or burn your leg, etc.

 

That's it. The oven loads through the end (I use the end with the thermometer). Prop your parts up on little wire cradles, or hang them from the top. I've hit temperatures of over 600 degrees F using the 'hi' setting on the heat gun - but DO NOT BAKE GUN PARTS ABOVE 500 DEGREES!!! One of the guys at FALfiles says that high temperatures can change the temper of the metal, so STICK TO TEMPERATURES AROUND 350, which is where my oven settles in with the heat gun set on 'lo' (and which works great with the Duplicolor 1200 degree paint). I've used the oven more times than I can count, and the double-wall stove pipe insulates so well that I haven't even scorched the paper price tag that's still glued to the outside. But the coffee cans/adaptors get hotter than hades - be careful!

 

I'll copy the info from my original FALfiles thread and post it here, when I get a chance, in case I forgot anything (plus some of the input from other members is worth seeing).

 

;>)

Edited January 21, 2007 by Bad Bob

[Bad Bob 0]

Here's a link to a copy of the original FALfiles thread, which I have posted on this forum:

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=14229